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Post by angryspartan on Jun 9, 2016 11:14:54 GMT -5
Sure we get along with our spouses. We share laughs(some of us anyway), have nights out, confide in each other etc. But deep down, do they really like you in a way a spouse should? Do they really love you for you? Just how deep is that love?
It's easy to pass-off their refusals to lack of libido, or them just being "beyond" that, but what if it's really something more serious, something they themselves have not come to terms with? I would wager the refuser is in just as much denial as the refused who thinks everything is great except the sex.
I guess I contemplate this because I can't imagine doing what they do to someone they love. Attraction, while can be just physical, it can also be created by how your mind perceives the other. I have to wonder, if there isn't enough there to cause a mental desire, then I believe questioning them(not literally) on how they really feel is worth the time. It's not so much about chasing the "why" as it is helping us come to terms on who we are with.
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Post by deleted on Jun 9, 2016 12:10:27 GMT -5
Well, she bought me a jar of peanut butter and some tequila.
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Post by angryspartan on Jun 9, 2016 12:14:52 GMT -5
Well, she bought me a jar of peanut butter and some tequila. Then you're one of the lucky peeps here. |
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Post by deleted on Jun 9, 2016 12:19:24 GMT -5
It's just that she doesn't think about sex and has no desire. That is a great feeling.
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Post by Chatter Fox on Jun 9, 2016 12:51:57 GMT -5
Sure we get along with our spouses. We share laughs(some of us anyway), have nights out, confide in each other etc. But deep down, do they really like you in a way a spouse should? Do they really love you for you? Just how deep is that love? It's easy to pass-off their refusals to lack of libido, or them just being "beyond" that, but what if it's really something more serious, something they themselves have not come to terms with? I would wager the refuser is in just as much denial as the refused who thinks everything is great except the sex. I guess I contemplate this because I can't imagine doing what they do to someone they love. Attraction, while can be just physical, it can also be created by how your mind perceives the other. I have to wonder, if there isn't enough there to cause a mental desire, then I believe questioning them(not literally) on how they really feel is worth the time. It's not so much about chasing the "why" as it is helping us come to terms on who we are with. I totally have these same sorts of thoughts, myself. I think about this kind of stuff all the time. For me, one thing that boggles my mind is how my wife seems to not have any desire for a romantic relationship with anyone. It's not like she gives me the vibe that she is secretly pining for someone else. She just seems completely and utterly shut down in the romance / sexual department. It just seems like, to her, that all of that stuff had a purpose... and now that that purpose is realized, the romantic / sexual aspect of life is now done. I just feel as though my wife's picture perfect marriage is a sexless one. I don't think that would change if she married someone else. Now granted, all of this is speculation. If she truly feels that way, she sure as hell wouldn't tell me. I don't blame her for that either. Her and I both know that I'd ask for a divorce if she truly felt that way and was just honest about it. Although, like you mentioned, maybe it IS a denial thing going on with my wife? Maybe she has an underlying desire that is dormant and unable to be expressed because she doesn't feel that way about me? Maybe being with someone else would somehow activate that part of her? I have no idea. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 9, 2016 16:07:12 GMT -5
I totally have these same sorts of thoughts, myself. I think about this kind of stuff all the time. For me, one thing that boggles my mind is how my wife seems to not have any desire for a romantic relationship with anyone. It's not like she gives me the vibe that she is secretly pining for someone else. She just seems completely and utterly shut down in the romance / sexual department. It just seems like, to her, that all of that stuff had a purpose... and now that that purpose is realized, the romantic / sexual aspect of life is now done. I just feel as though my wife's picture perfect marriage is a sexless one. I don't think that would change if she married someone else. Now granted, all of this is speculation. If she truly feels that way, she sure as hell wouldn't tell me. I don't blame her for that either. Her and I both know that I'd ask for a divorce if she truly felt that way and was just honest about it. Although, like you mentioned, maybe it IS a denial thing going on with my wife? Maybe she has an underlying desire that is dormant and unable to be expressed because she doesn't feel that way about me? Maybe being with someone else would somehow activate that part of her? I have no idea. Ditto, beeman. I've reached a conclusion that my wife does seem to genuinely love me. Maybe even as much as I love her. But...... she does not express love in a way that's meaningful to me. Conversely, my instinctive expressions of love are received as neutral or negative by her. There is a very fundamental mismatch. Then pile on that she doesn't get pleasure from sex, so she has no desire for it and sees it as an inconvenience. I imagine it's like giving my cat a hug. That's my natural expression, but it means nothing to the cat, and in fact it just wants to escape. And if my cat caught a bird and brought it inside to share with me, well... that may be significant to the cat, but ewww. And, yeah... we're never going to have an honest discussion about this. Perhaps because she isn't introspective enough to see her own motivations, or doesn't want to believe her own lack of desire. But certainly because she realizes the ramifications of admitting things can get no better. I've always hoped that there was an ember there that I just needed to ignite. Or that maybe someone else would be able to. Now I'm pretty sure that was never the case. DC |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 16:23:53 GMT -5
Ditto, beeman. I've reached a conclusion that my wife does seem to genuinely love me. Maybe even as much as I love her. But...... she does not express love in a way that's meaningful to me. Conversely, my instinctive expressions of love are received as neutral or negative by her. There is a very fundamental mismatch. Then pile on that she doesn't get pleasure from sex, so she has no desire for it and sees it as an inconvenience. I imagine it's like giving my cat a hug. That's my natural expression, but it means nothing to the cat, and in fact it just wants to escape. And if my cat caught a bird and brought it inside to share with me, well... that may be significant to the cat, but ewww. And, yeah... we're never going to have an honest discussion about this. Perhaps because she isn't introspective enough to see her own motivations, or doesn't want to believe her own lack of desire. But certainly because she realizes the ramifications of admitting things can get no better. I've always hoped that there was an ember there that I just needed to ignite. Or that maybe someone else would be able to. Now I'm pretty sure that was never the case. DC DC, not to make light of your situation or mine, but the cat hugging image, well, it left me  . Never did care much for cats. Probably shouldn't have gotten one. Oh, wait, it was a cat dressed in husband's clothing. The bastard fooled me! Thanks for the laugh. Needed that. I'm sorry you're in the cat rescue with me and neither one of us can find our way out. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 16:33:46 GMT -5
I'm just repeating what I've said elsewhere - sorry for sounding like a broken record. I believe that you can only love another as much as you truly love and accept yourself. I think our refusers have too many of their own demons and ultimately, just don't have the love to give. In their own twisted and inadequate way, they love us. But it's broken love. And broken love just doesn't cut it.
I'm not going to claim that I have no issues. For starters, how the hell did I end up with this kind of marriage? I chose this man. What were/are my issues that I have allowed this for so long? That I decided somehow this was all I was worth? I've sorted a lot of this out in therapy and I think that's what brought me here - realizing the situation for what it is and beginning to claw my way out. No matter how long it takes me. And right now, it's looking like a long haul.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 9, 2016 16:47:49 GMT -5
When my husband would get mad at me for something and sometimes it was the dumbest thing. One time I remember talking about a kid playing baseball and we were just in disagreement over a kid and his batting stance, it wasn't even our own kid. So husband gets pissed that I won't agree with him and says "you disgust me".
In that past year he had said that to me a few times.
I have thicker skin than an umpire and I teach teenagers so his words don't hurt me. However I realized that I would never say this to someone I just liked let alone loved.
I realized he is not capable of loving me.
Also he forgot my bday in July. The next month I interviewed 2 attorneys.
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Post by obobfla on Jun 9, 2016 17:06:38 GMT -5
I'm just repeating what I've said elsewhere - sorry for sounding like a broken record. I believe that you can only love another as much as you truly love and accept yourself. I think our refusers have too many of their own demons and ultimately, just don't have the love to give. In their own twisted and inadequate way, they love us. But it's broken love. And broken love just doesn't cut it. I'm not going to claim that I have no issues. For starters, how the hell did I end up with this kind of marriage? I chose this man. What were/are my issues that I have allowed this for so long? That I decided somehow this was all I was worth? I've sorted a lot of this out in therapy and I think that's what brought me here - realizing the situation for what it is and beginning to claw my way out. No matter how long it takes me. And right now, it's looking like a long haul. My wife has a broken love because she has a broken mind. She tries to care for me, but she always forgets how. Right now she is fixing dinner. The side dish is lasagna noodles - not lasagna - just the noodles. She is incapable of even planning a simple meal. Yesterday, she did laundry. I found my permanent press clothing sprawled out on my bed. I have explained to her many times that permanent press must go on a hanger to keep them from wrinkling. She agrees but then forgets. If she were my employee, I would fire her. As it is, she is on disability. There is no way she can hold a job. What seems simple to the rest of us is difficult for her. She is a college graduate, yet she can't do any simple planning. It's very sad and frustrating. |
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Post by petrushka on Jun 9, 2016 17:20:50 GMT -5
I used to go around with this theory of people walking around with "a movie behind their eyelids".
A movie about how it is to love, and be loved. A movie about how a relationship should look, how
they want to be treated.
Depending on the person, the other person they take up with may only be very vaguely sketched into
that movie .... or very detailed.
I know that my wife loves me deeply by the way her eyes light up when she first sees me after she's
been away a couple of days, and she melts into my hug. She cuddles for an hour or so with me before
bed practically every day. She is concerned about my moods, she is concerned when I can't do something
because my stupid knees are hurting like hell - and she picks up the slack. The way she snuggles up
to me when I come to bed at 2 am ...
BUT: the movie in her head is different from mine, presumably because of how she experienced her parents
interacting, a controlling father who would not allow any display of emotions in the family. So she does
not share feelings. She can't even say how she feels. And I have found that I can't really do anything for her:
whatever I do is somehow wrong, and I tried and tried and tried over the years and it only pissed her off.
So I stopped trying and she is much happier that way.
When we cuddle in the evening, it is she petting and stroking and cuddling me, I just put my head in her lap
and kind of semi-doze and float.
The absurd thing is that she's happier since I stopped trying to do things for her. Unfortunately MY movie
says that I get a lot of happiness out of doing things for my lover. And so - I actually have difficulty
seeing her as my lover any more. I can only really see her as a kind of BFF with non-sexual benefits.
I have had good, solid relationships like that before, but they didn't start out as a marriage. They were
about friendship, and not about love.
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Post by Chatter Fox on Jun 9, 2016 17:45:59 GMT -5
I imagine it's like giving my cat a hug. That's my natural expression, but it means nothing to the cat, and in fact it just wants to escape. And if my cat caught a bird and brought it inside to share with me, well... that may be significant to the cat, but ewww. Omg... so funny. Rofl. It's so true too! Everything else yout said was spot on as well. |
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Post by unmatched on Jun 9, 2016 18:15:44 GMT -5
We were talking about this in counselling yesterday. At one point the counsellor asked us what it was to us that made our relationship special and more than just a friendship. So I talked about feeling love, and desire and passion and wanting to bond very closely through a shared ongoing sexual relationship. My wife said she felt like she trusted me and was able to open up and talk to me more than she has ever done with anyone and how special that was. I said that sounded to me like a very deep friendship. She said her sexual relationships have always been dysfunctional and it just doesn't seem to be a part of her or important to her. The counsellor then replied that she would be very upset if I had sex with somebody else (this was from an earlier conversation). She said part of that was because she knows me and she knows I am not capable of having 'meaningless' sex with anyone. But she also recognised that it does have meaning to her too.
So does she love me? I think she does as much as she is capable of right now. Does that look the way 'love' looks in my head? No. But there is without doubt a strong emotional connection there and I think our counsellor is hoping to leverage that to try and break through some of her barriers around sex.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 9, 2016 18:28:26 GMT -5
I used to convince myself that my wife loves me because she wants me to be the father of all these children. That she trusts and loves me enough to take care of her father. That she trusts and loves me with all of these finances and responsibilities. That she loves my values, morals, and virtues! That I'm a really good catch!
Now I realize that having a family is where her love is, and her work. That a man, a husband, was child care service that is less and less needed as kids become adults.
the same person who now says, " why don't you leave? , I Don't love you anymore, I don't really see the need for sex, you are less than helpful, etc..." Leaves for days on business trips with me in charge of the whole family!
I will warn my children to meet the parents of any prospective spouse. Beware of the controller. The apple does not fall far from the tree.
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Post by petrushka on Jun 9, 2016 20:13:18 GMT -5
I used to convince myself that my wife loves me because she wants me to be the father of all these children. That she trusts and loves me enough to take care of her father. That she trusts and loves me with all of these finances and responsibilities. That she loves my values, morals, and virtues! That I'm a really good catch! Now I realize that having a family is where her love is, and her work. That a man, a husband, was child care service that is less and less needed as kids become adults. the same person who now says, " why don't you leave? , I Don't love you anymore, I don't really see the need for sex, you are less than helpful, etc..." Leaves for days on business trips with me in charge of the whole family! I will warn my children to meet the parents of any prospective spouse. Beware of the controller. The apple does not fall far from the tree. And don't just beware the controlling in-laws: beware the alcoholic in-laws for instance, because that's the smithy where controllers are forged. Where ever a kid has to take care of business in a dysfunctional family that is beyond their years, beyond the responsibility they should be shouldering, you will get controllers coming out of that situation most of the time. What's more, they're then often [mis]used by the remaining parent for their emotional needs. They come out with the idea "no way do I want to end up in a family like the one I came from", and their way of ensuring that is to try and control everything -- thereby completely wrecking any prospect of a healthy family situation for themselves later on, unless they learn to let go of the urge to control Every Last Bloody Thing. Talk about self-defeating strategies. But of course it's emotional, not rational, so they may not have insight in what they're doing. |
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. Never did care much for cats. Probably shouldn't have gotten one. Oh, wait, it was a cat dressed in husband's clothing. The bastard fooled me!
