|
|
Post by JMX on Jun 7, 2016 21:10:50 GMT -5
Did I miss something here JMX that your H is BPD? Has he revealed something medically new since your settlement ultimatum? Nope. Just Monday morning quarterbacking from the Psychologist's couch. |
|
|
|
Post by unmatched on Jun 7, 2016 22:49:02 GMT -5
I am having an attack of the guilts this morning, though. Right now it just seems like counselling is stirring up lots of shit for my wife and not really doing much to help her deal with it. So she is feeling worse because it is bringing up all the stuff she is desperate to not have to look at or think about, which I guess is an inevitable part of the process. But she doesn't know what to do with it. So she feels less strong and less able to be vulnerable and intimate than she was even before. Maybe we will come through this and maybe we won't. But I feel guilty for dragging her through it (which I know I shouldn't - it is her stuff to deal with), and I am scared that counselling might leave her more scared/vulnerable/depressed and still end in us splitting up, at which point she will need to be strong more than ever. , you seem like such a sweet, sensitive guy. You really care about your wife as a person, in spite of the problems the 2 of you have. I admire that a lot. I've seen you say elsewhere that you value honest (if difficult) discussions. I wonder, does your wife have the emotional intelligence for you to tell her exactly what you've written here (bolded)? If I put myself in her shoes (from my perspective as a wife), I would be thrilled to hear the truth of the matter, because then - I could actually do something about it. Sounds to me like she needs a separate therapist to help her through her own stuff as well. I really admire the fact that you are hanging in there and leaving no stone unturned until you are absolutely, positively certain that divorce is the only answer. I am doing the same, and I know that when I walk, I will be able to say I did everything possible. There will be nothing hasty about my decision. Same for you. Thank you!  We were talking about this last night a little because it is a fear that she has too, and it is something I want to bring up again with the counsellor tomorrow. She is going to start seeing a therapist on her own as well, but not for another month (we are going away for a couple of weeks soon). But as phin said she might need years of therapy to figure this out, and even then it might not do much. So I do want to hang in there until we aren't going any further. But it feels very hard today, I don't know how much I have left in the tank. |
|
|
|
Post by unmatched on Jun 7, 2016 23:26:59 GMT -5
Her drinking again IS a deal breaker. That ultimatum was delivered a good while back and has full effect since. Acknowledging and recognizing all the troubling, difficult, failing and painful aspects of people's relationships here that aren't deal-breakers (until one day they are) is possibly itself the most revealing aspect of this question. That is so true. We always think we have to be so perfect all the time in order for anybody to want to be with us and stay with us. And actually a lot of the time you can treat people like shit and they will take it, as long as they feel they are getting something out of it (or are still hoping they might). Not that I am advocating treating people like shit, but there is a lot more leeway there than we think to just be ourselves and do what feels right to us. |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 8, 2016 0:16:14 GMT -5
@phinheasgage - that is what is striking me about this thread as well. The question that unmatched proposes is: what will it take to push you over the edge? NOT - why do you stay? The ones here, I respect all of you - that did not answer the question but instead answered "why do you stay?" Is very curious indeed. Not sure I could have answered unmatched 's question last week even, but I wouldn't have answered it with why I stay. To me, this means NO DEAL BREAKERS. Yeah, well that was me for years Sister JMX. I had "dealbreakers" but when they arrived, I folded. When they arrived, I did nothing. So in reality, I didn't actually have any dealbreakers. I bullshitted myself that I did have, but my actions clearly showed that I didn't have. |
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 8, 2016 13:17:00 GMT -5
I would just like to point out that emotional abuse, including the covert types like passive aggression, may not leave physical marks but any therapist will say it is as damaging as being hit---in many cases more so because it's so hard to recognize it, to get help for it, and to find support. Abuse is not just physical. And emotional abuse should IMO be just as much as a deal breaker. Here's some info on types of emotional abuse. Do you recognize any signs in your partner? lonerwolf.com/emotional-abuse/Every single one on numbers one and two. And one on number three. |
|
|
|
Post by nyartgal on Jun 8, 2016 13:35:24 GMT -5
That's SCARY!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by bluebirdday on Jun 8, 2016 23:04:51 GMT -5
Interesting thread. I do know my deal breakers. At least I think I do. My husband has been verbally abusive in the past - read screaming/yelling at me for pretty much nothing. I took it for years. I thought it was my fault. Now I know better and I told him a few months back that the next time he yells at me, he can pack his bags and leave. And I meant it. No one deserves to be treated that way. Least of all ME! I'm a kind, gentle person and I refuse to be his verbal punching bag. He's been good for the last few months, and the boundary is FIRM now. Either I finally taught him how to treat me or that mean streak will be our deal breaker. And then there's his drinking. I like to think the next time he passes out, it's over. But, we've been through that a handful of times and I'm still here. I *think* the next blackout episode is a deal breaker but I have immense compassion for addicts. No one who hasn't dealt with addiction has any business saying "well just quit!" Ha, the most worthless piece of advice ever to an addict. Messed up brain chemistry, mental health issues, etc., it just isn't that simple. And I get it. Cheating would be a deal breaker. Him being abusive to our kids, deal breaker. And the yelling, yeah. I'm over it. Oh my gosh....going to get dog food....that was the trigger! I can so relate! |
|
|
|
Post by Pinkberry on Jun 9, 2016 14:32:09 GMT -5
Like Baz, I thought I had deal breakers, but the truth is that I caved on every single one. When you think you are in love with someone and that marriage vows are more important than your personal well-being and that for better or worse means even when it is abundantly clear that better left a long time ago, it is difficult to rationalize leaving. I didn't want to be THAT person who got divorced. I wanted to have a family and a house, not a struggling single motherhood life and a baby daddy.
In retrospect, I should have left when we were dating. There was a very clear sign that I should have and I ignored it. I had self-image issues and was naive. After we were married there were bigger signs, but that whole commitment thing felt important to me. More important than me I guess.
If I were in the business of giving marriage advice to others, I'd follow advice that I read in a dating book, but it turns out came from Maya Angelou. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them, the first time." You really need to be discerning. Don't dismiss things. Act on them. Don't wait for reality to hit you 29 times or 100 times. I would suggest that among those things that should cause immediate action should be physical violence or control, infidelity, using your secrets or weak points against you, threatening to use your kids or take your kids, financial irresponsibility, unequal partnership that your partner won't work to resolve, general dismissal of your feelings, and anything that threatens your well-being. There are probably more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 16:14:32 GMT -5
Like Baz, I thought I had deal breakers, but the truth is that I caved on every single one. When you think you are in love with someone and that marriage vows are more important than your personal well-being and that for better or worse means even when it is abundantly clear that better left a long time ago, it is difficult to rationalize leaving. I didn't want to be THAT person who got divorced. I wanted to have a family and a house, not a struggling single motherhood life and a baby daddy. In retrospect, I should have left when we were dating. There was a very clear sign that I should have and I ignored it. I had self-image issues and was naive. After we were married there were bigger signs, but that whole commitment thing felt important to me. More important than me I guess. If I were in the business of giving marriage advice to others, I'd follow advice that I read in a dating book, but it turns out came from Maya Angelou. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them, the first time." You really need to be discerning. Don't dismiss things. Act on them. Don't wait for reality to hit you 29 times or 100 times. I would suggest that among those things that should cause immediate action should be physical violence or control, infidelity, using your secrets or weak points against you, threatening to use your kids or take your kids, financial irresponsibility, unequal partnership that your partner won't work to resolve, general dismissal of your feelings, and anything that threatens your well-being. There are probably more. , I totally relate to your first and second paragraphs. (And I absolutely LOVE the advice from the 3rd.) I WANT an intact family. I never wanted a baby daddy, let alone multiple baby daddies. I know that is why I went ahead and had the 2nd child with him, against my better judgment. I love my children more than life itself and would never regret having them. In fact, I sometimes think our children might be the reason my husband and I got together, to bring those souls into existence. It might be all the relationship was worth. Part of me loves him just because he gave me the 2 most beautiful creatures on earth. For me, it keeps coming down to "no easy answers." I, too, should've left when we were dating. But I was young, naive, and insecure. I've grown, while he hasn't. Sigh. |
|
|
|
Post by unmatched on Jun 9, 2016 18:47:10 GMT -5
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them, the first time." I think this should go on our banner somewhere! |
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jun 11, 2016 11:54:52 GMT -5
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them, the first time." I think this should go on our banner somewhere! This is tattoo-worthy. I know I got burned by assumptions. Seeing potential; ignoring facts. Normally that works to my advantage, but I think relationships are an area where it's a really dangerous practice. But it's an easy mistake when all your thinking is emotionally charged. |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 14, 2016 22:23:05 GMT -5
I think that most people are looking for a reason NOT to rock the boat rather than a reason TO rock the boat.
And, one good way of doing that is to select a dealbreaker that is highly unlikely to occur.
Say - "If I caught my wife fucking the milkman, that would be it".
When you know that this is a highly improbable scenario.
What normally happens (humour me here by pretending that the above scenario actually happened) is that after catching your missus fucking the milkman, one would revise that dealbreaker to go - "If I catch my missus fucking the milkman again, that would be it".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 4:47:02 GMT -5
I think that most people are looking for a reason NOT to rock the boat rather than a reason TO rock the boat. And, one good way of doing that is to select a dealbreaker that is highly unlikely to occur. Say - "If I caught my wife fucking the milkman, that would be it". When you know that this is a highly improbable scenario. What normally happens (humour me here by pretending that the above scenario actually happened) is that after catching your missus fucking the milkman, one would revise that dealbreaker to go - "If I catch my missus fucking the milkman again, that would be it". You know you got trouble when the man bring the mail The dog don't bark he just wags his tail Oh boy about to get a blues attack Baby's on the sly, sneaking behind your back. |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 18, 2016 1:59:23 GMT -5
Just out of interest Brother phin, these days, I AM a (part time) mailman !!!!
-
But it is a rural delivery situation in a 4 wheel drive out in the boondocks of rural Australia.
Not much chance of finding a chick hoggin' for a root in that environment !!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 6:58:12 GMT -5
baza, that sounds like a fascinating gig, lack of chicks notwithstanding!
|
|
We were talking about this last night a little because it is a fear that she has too, and it is something I want to bring up again with the counsellor tomorrow. She is going to start seeing a therapist on her own as well, but not for another month (we are going away for a couple of weeks soon). But as phin said she might need years of therapy to figure this out, and even then it might not do much. So I do want to hang in there until we aren't going any further. But it feels very hard today, I don't know how much I have left in the tank.
