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Post by unmatched on Jun 7, 2016 17:41:04 GMT -5
Another strong factor: not knowing how the children ( teenagers) are going to react. The only advice I get ( repeatedly is don't mention it to the children!) then I read where others had no choice, told the children, and the kids say, " yeah! What took you so long!". When I was 15 yrs old my mother mentioned leaving and me living with my dad. I cried, said no. But the next four years until I moved away the whole family avoided each other. I see the same developments in my own family. Having the children's approval would push things into action! You know you can't get your kids approval, right? They might well turn around afterwards and say 'What took you so long?' and they might well be happy for you. But divorce is hard on kids and a big shock to their system, and it really isn't fair to let them feel like they have any influence over your decision making process in any way. You don't want to leave the slightest opening for them to feel guilty about it afterwards. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 7, 2016 18:13:09 GMT -5
Another strong factor: not knowing how the children ( teenagers) are going to react. The only advice I get ( repeatedly is don't mention it to the children!) then I read where others had no choice, told the children, and the kids say, " yeah! What took you so long!". When I was 15 yrs old my mother mentioned leaving and me living with my dad. I cried, said no. But the next four years until I moved away the whole family avoided each other. I see the same developments in my own family. Having the children's approval would push things into action! You know you can't get your kids approval, right? They might well turn around afterwards and say 'What took you so long?' and they might well be happy for you. But divorce is hard on kids and a big shock to their system, and it really isn't fair to let them feel like they have any influence over your decision making process in any way. You don't want to leave the slightest opening for them to feel guilty about it afterwards. To be totally honest about that, no I really don't know what's best. And it is a huge barrier. Their may always be guilt feelings just because they are our children. Especially the adopted ones. My mind goes all over the map on this one. |
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Post by unmatched on Jun 7, 2016 18:25:50 GMT -5
You know you can't get your kids approval, right? They might well turn around afterwards and say 'What took you so long?' and they might well be happy for you. But divorce is hard on kids and a big shock to their system, and it really isn't fair to let them feel like they have any influence over your decision making process in any way. You don't want to leave the slightest opening for them to feel guilty about it afterwards. To be totally honest about that, no I really don't know what's best. And it is a huge barrier. Their may always be guilt feelings just because they are our children. Especially the adopted ones. My mind goes all over the map on this one. You have about 50 kids right? So I would assume that some of them will deal with it really well and you might find one or two who struggle with it, especially at first. And yes you will definitely feel guilty about that. But kids struggle with moving house or changing schools or going to high school or going to college or leaving home etc. etc. Change is a part of life and they learn and grow through those struggles. Kids also have a tendency to feel guilty when their parents split up and somehow project onto the situation that it is their fault and if only they had done something different it might not have happened. I think this is partly a way of feeling more in control during a time when they feel powerless, and partly because when you are young you tend to believe that bad things happen as a result of something you did wrong. Generally they will come to see that this is not the case and will accept it. But I think if you involved them in the process at all (even just talking to them about your relationship) it could be MUCH harder for them to see it as just something that happened and not something that they did wrong. |
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Post by unmatched on Jun 7, 2016 18:29:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2016 18:35:42 GMT -5
And to ask you your own question, at what point are you going to say that's it? Sorry, I seem to have missed most of my own thread while I was asleep! I am not sure at what point I am going to say stop. Right now I feel like things are moving, even though I am struggling to see our relationship getting to where I need it to be. I think as long as I feel that there is movement I will be willing to stick it out. If I feel like we have stopped or gone as far as we can go I think that will be the time to call it quits. I also think there is a strong possibility we will get to a point in counselling where my wife says 'I can't go any further'. I am having an attack of the guilts this morning, though. Right now it just seems like counselling is stirring up lots of shit for my wife and not really doing much to help her deal with it. So she is feeling worse because it is bringing up all the stuff she is desperate to not have to look at or think about, which I guess is an inevitable part of the process. But she doesn't know what to do with it. So she feels less strong and less able to be vulnerable and intimate than she was even before. Maybe we will come through this and maybe we won't. But I feel guilty for dragging her through it (which I know I shouldn't - it is her stuff to deal with), and I am scared that counselling might leave her more scared/vulnerable/depressed and still end in us splitting up, at which point she will need to be strong more than ever. It is after all the baggage we bring into relationships that make them go toxic. Which unfortunately means if you want to fix a relationship you have to work on those issues. No, she doesn't know what to do with it. She's going to need probably years of therapy to figure that out. Is she willing to go through that? Are you? |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 7, 2016 18:42:54 GMT -5
If we we were talking children I would be shielding them with father bear instincts. But we are talking teenagers. Working, driving, dating, college classes, ( other things I won't mention) and it is surprising how much they pick up on. Then there is the rest of society that they are surrounded by. Other youth from divorced families. Also the issue of my four boys who choose to detach themselves from mom and dad anyways as they go through H.S. Bombarded by negative influence through there computer/phone screens.
Honestly being on the fence gets tiring. Like a "Desperado" it's time to let somebody love me, before it's too late!
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 7, 2016 18:48:34 GMT -5
I would just like to point out that emotional abuse, including the covert types like passive aggression, may not leave physical marks but any therapist will say it is as damaging as being hit---in many cases more so because it's so hard to recognize it, to get help for it, and to find support. Abuse is not just physical. And emotional abuse should IMO be just as much as a deal breaker. Here's some info on types of emotional abuse. Do you recognize any signs in your partner? lonerwolf.com/emotional-abuse/ |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 7, 2016 18:53:50 GMT -5
I would just like to point out that emotional abuse, including the covert types like passive aggression, may not leave physical marks but any therapist will say it is as damaging as being hit---in many cases more so because it's so hard to recognize it, to get help for it, and to find support. Abuse is not just physical. And emotional abuse should IMO be just as much as a deal breaker. Here's some info on types of emotional abuse. Do you recognize any signs in your partner? lonerwolf.com/emotional-abuse/Exactly!! THIS!! After I told my husband that I wanted a divorce I told him that I wish he would have just beat me because I would have left sooner. The manipulative abuse is the cruelist of all. |
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Post by baza on Jun 7, 2016 18:55:59 GMT -5
People who are thinking about leaving can only speculate about what MIGHT BE their dealbreaker. Indeed for some, the dealbreaker has already happened, but has not yet been recognised and processed.
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I know personally, when I was in the 'thinking about it" camp, I asked a lot of divorced people "How did you know it was time to split" ?
And, uniformly, they all said "You'll know when it happens". I found this advice supremely unhelpful at the time. I wanted to know THE specific thing, the actual thing that broke the camels back. And I was frustrated that no-one could tell me.
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So I thought, best I get prepped, just in case.
And consulted a lawyer in my jurisdiction and did the other stuff like knocking an exit strategy together.
And, several months later, that one word in one otherwise innocuous conversation tripped the switch and I *knew*.
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I don't reckon that if I had been thinking about a theoretical dealbreaker BEFORE this all went down that I would have guessed it would have been one word in one otherwise innocuous conversation.
Rather, I would have been thinking about some monumental event (like catching the milkman choc-a-block up my missus or something equally dramatic)
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So unfortunately, I too can only offer you this - "You'll know" - statement.
Along with the suggestion that you start getting yourself prepped NOW, so you are ready THEN.
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Post by JMX on Jun 7, 2016 19:12:32 GMT -5
nyartgal - Every single one on number 2 except the last. I keep looking up BPD with stonewalling. I am just trying to see how the next month in a half is going to play out - promise, not "why chasing".
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Post by baza on Jun 7, 2016 19:21:58 GMT -5
Truth be told, I had a look at that link about abuse, and a couple of things under heading #2 I was guilty of myself back in the day.
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 7, 2016 19:45:48 GMT -5
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Post by JMX on Jun 7, 2016 20:29:16 GMT -5
Not sure about BPD - although I saw something once (maybe here) that prompted me to see if BPD was present in stonewalling and found a couple of message boards where behaviors rang true. Thanks for the links! PA behavior, for sure. Each article had a link to another, equally eye-opening wonderful article. Geez. |
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 7, 2016 20:50:06 GMT -5
Did I miss something here JMX that your H is BPD? Has he revealed something medically new since your settlement ultimatum?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2016 20:54:52 GMT -5
I am having an attack of the guilts this morning, though. Right now it just seems like counselling is stirring up lots of shit for my wife and not really doing much to help her deal with it. So she is feeling worse because it is bringing up all the stuff she is desperate to not have to look at or think about, which I guess is an inevitable part of the process. But she doesn't know what to do with it. So she feels less strong and less able to be vulnerable and intimate than she was even before. Maybe we will come through this and maybe we won't. But I feel guilty for dragging her through it (which I know I shouldn't - it is her stuff to deal with), and I am scared that counselling might leave her more scared/vulnerable/depressed and still end in us splitting up, at which point she will need to be strong more than ever., you seem like such a sweet, sensitive guy. You really care about your wife as a person, in spite of the problems the 2 of you have. I admire that a lot. I've seen you say elsewhere that you value honest (if difficult) discussions. I wonder, does your wife have the emotional intelligence for you to tell her exactly what you've written here (bolded)? If I put myself in her shoes (from my perspective as a wife), I would be thrilled to hear the truth of the matter, because then - I could actually do something about it. Sounds to me like she needs a separate therapist to help her through her own stuff as well. I really admire the fact that you are hanging in there and leaving no stone unturned until you are absolutely, positively certain that divorce is the only answer. I am doing the same, and I know that when I walk, I will be able to say I did everything possible. There will be nothing hasty about my decision. Same for you. |
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