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Post by northstarmom on Dec 1, 2020 8:17:57 GMT -5
Having been through something similar, I get it. Your husband is satisfied enough with the status quo that he doesn’t plan to change. He assumes that as you have in the past, you will vent occasionally but will continue to stay in your sexless and —otherwise problematic for you— marriage.
Your husband is not going to change. If you want a more fulfilling life, you will have to let go of your marriage and move on. To do this, you will have to conclude that you’d be better off single than remaining married.
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 1, 2020 8:28:23 GMT -5
Well, oddly enough, scheduling 'date night with intimacy' was one of the first solutions HE came up with last night  I don't geddit....... ... He appears to think that as long as we can successfully have a sex life again, everything's going to be fine and dandy and we can fix it all......... I'm not sure this is the case. I'm discovering more about my own un-happiness, than just the lack of sex. I'm not desperate for a shag ; I'm more desperate to be thought of as a 'fully-rounded' wife, somebody attractive enough to want to keep for her own sake. I feel as though I'm good for being kept for all the dull stuff in life (house-keeper type stuff, 'admin-of life' type stuff, office stuff, work stuff etc.) and even the quite nice bits like being company, having someone to talk to, someone to trust etc........ but the sex or good fun bits? No, that's saved for porn or, worse, somebody else. I think I'm just basically really jealous. (and I've always thought I didn't have a jealous bone in my body.......  ) The daily game of solitaire he plays is all well and good, but if you're rejecting the Mrs., you're rather obligated to hold off and approach her later. At least, I'd think that would be proper courtesy. His willingness to provide for you now that he knows you're feeling your oats? It's put up or shut up. The drivel about his not knowing? Hey, whatever. He knows *now*. You said he may have autism? Yeah, supposedly, subtlety doesn't work. You need some big girl pants and refuse to be ashamed about it. He has basically made it clear he needs a "wanton harlot". If he wants a flirty vixen, he's gotta be a bit more focused on noticing. Pick one. He needs to provide you with a way to win. I've an unannounced policy with my wife that I plan to platonically date if we go for three weeks without. We'll see what happens if I ever fire that warning shot. (She's stayed within that limit for a year now, and I don't quite know how she's sensed it's a breaking point, yet there it is.) Perhaps you, too, want to establish a minimum, below which you'll be looking to supplement the inadequate supply of physical (and maybe emotional) intimacy. You don't fancy anyone, you say, but you haven't dated yet. Talking over a candlelit dinner may be something you do not know how you'll react to. apocrypha has reported many divorcees are shocked to find they have quite carnal urges emerging after years of lethargic libidos. On your avoiding anger, that is unspeakably common. It produces a lack of boundaries and lack of self-respect and self-worth. Broaching subjects early and forcing yourself to accept your own priorities as legitimate can prevent blowups. It's a service to others to prioritize your own wants appropriately and avoid excess sacrifice. Let yourself win once in a while. It's only your due; what everyone else expects naturally, without intense introspection and constant second guessing. One young woman I know had it so bad that she'd black out for minutes at a a time when she'd tear her loved ones a new one. It was so traumatic, so antithetical to her self perception as the nicest person in the room, that she couldn't be "awake" for the ugliness that resulted when she didn't respect her own needs. That sounds like you; angry at your inner voice that fights for your life's dreams and goals. That inner voice is your friend. You just need to allow it to speak in an indoor voice so it doesn't feel the need to scream. Your "eggshells" talk, pushing through your discomfort of standing up for yourself was powerful to read. I'd think that talks like that may stop any future hitting. Everyone wins. saarinista suggested therapy. You may try dipping your toes on a web site offering free "active listeners". Such people listen to your story, then ask questions that ask for clarification or details. Explaining your situation carefully to others can flesh out your own feelings and understanding in ways that are accidentally therapeutic. 7 cups of tea is one example: www.7cups.com/BrowseListeners/ |
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Post by sadkat on Dec 1, 2020 9:52:35 GMT -5
I would say his reaction falls on the excuses list. What about scheduling date night with intimacy? Hello jerri, Well, oddly enough, scheduling 'date night with intimacy' was one of the first solutions HE came up with last night I don't geddit....... Yesterday I sent him a copy of my last 'mind-dump' post (with any forum etc. identifiers removed) . After the last email mess, (and my angry reaction to *his* reaction to it) he reacted differently.. (blimey, that's enough 'reacting' in one bloomin' sentence  ) He appears to think that as long as we can successfully have a sex life again, everything's going to be fine and dandy and we can fix it all......... I'm not sure this is the case. I'm discovering more about my own un-happiness, than just the lack of sex. I'm not desperate for a shag ; I'm more desperate to be thought of as a 'fully-rounded' wife, somebody attractive enough to want to keep for her own sake. I feel as though I'm good for being kept for all the dull stuff in life (house-keeper type stuff, 'admin-of life' type stuff, office stuff, work stuff etc.) and even the quite nice bits like being company, having someone to talk to, someone to trust etc........ but the sex or good fun bits? No, that's saved for porn or, worse, somebody else. I think I'm just basically really jealous. (and I've always thought I didn't have a jealous bone in my body....... ) He did not attempt to engage with any of the points I made, answer any questions I put, or explain why he has done the things he has. But he hadn't had time to do all that as I *did* tell him NOT to jump in immediately with a response before thinking hard about all this stuff (which was probably why the 1st email session was such a disaster!) I really need him to explain some stuff ; I need to know the real reasons for the no-sex. The reasons given so far do not seem to make much sense; Back to the 'nice hotel' incident about a year ago. 1. about a week ago in our initial bust-up, he says he was scared to try and have sex on that occasion in case he couldn't 'perform' (scared of lack of rigidity, lack of size and an-orgasmia- generally being 'un-manly') 2. a couple of days ago said he didn't know I was trying because I was not obvious enough. (getting huggy, cuddly and affectionate in bed with your husband on your 25th wedding anniversary *isn't* being inviting? really?) 3. so if I had been obvious (tits in face etc) which he says I should try because it works for him, would that have miraculously cured the fear of non-performance? I really don't geddit. Once again, thanks for listening! xx This is really good thinking! You are spot on! The sad thing is that porn (sex) addicts just can’t “quit”. It takes intensive sex therapy and, even then, long term results are not promising. You are absolutely right about the reasons he wants to maintain the status quo. He’s not a bad guy- he’s just not interested in sex with you. That leaves you with a very hard decision. As for the 4 months before the job is finished- I don’t think you’ll be anywhere near ready to leave before then. It took me 14 months from the time I just knew I had to pull the trigger on my marriage to when I actually said goodbye. |
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Post by csl on Dec 1, 2020 11:36:48 GMT -5
As to Solitaire, it might help the game along if you two can agree that you have the right to first refusal. If you aren’t up for a game, then Solitaire is playable. Otherwise, it’s a two-handed. (My only proviso would be that the game doesn’t turn on him down the road.)
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 1, 2020 14:00:10 GMT -5
mirrororchid, (I'm sorry I can't get the quote function to work!) Paragraph starting... 'his willingness to provide for you now .... ' ending with .....' He needs to provide you with a way to win' Will you explain more what you mean please? Big girl pants etc? Do you mean I have to 'make' him want me by jumping on him? I can't do that!  I just had another short conversation with him about the hotel question 1........ he was scared of trying etc 2........ he didn't know I was trying blah blah 3.......... if I HAD jumped on him and made it beedin' obvious, would that have miraculously cured the fear of non-performance. ? His answer to that was yes. Apparently that is what he 'needs' me to do so he is able to have sex without fears of failing. I CAN;T bloody do this. I didn't have to bloody do this on our friggin' 2nd honeymoon , I didn't have to do it many years ago when we were 'normal', and I bet his bloody girlfriend doesn't have to do this. I'm not the sort of person who can be someones personal porn actress just to get him interested- I do not and have NEVER had the sort of confidence that takes. (I don't mean I'm a 'star-fish' shag ; really, I'm not. I like giving oral, going on top, on all 4's...... OK I'm not going to be swinging from the chandeliers, but I'm not some dead lump of meat ; I'm fine once everything gets going ) ....and I don't think I need the sex THAT much, that I make myself feel soooo uncomfortable trying to get it. I wanted my husband to want me - I think I'm coming to the reality that that's not going to happen (sorry for all the shouting and swearing, but I'm howling my eyes out here) |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 1, 2020 18:14:22 GMT -5
gladifoundthisforum, this isn't in any way a defense of your husband's behavior, just some perspective from a guy who empathizes with the situation... Eventually, the negative feedback around sex and/or the constant failure causes a reconditioning: this person is not a viable sex partner, it's wrong to view her sexually; a familial love is OK, but an erotic attraction is perverse. This is, quite frankly, a defensive response to protect one's emotional sanity - "She can't reject me if I've disqualified her". To offer a personal example... quite literally, my wife could crawl into bed naked (completely out of character) and curl up to me, and that absolutely would NOT be a sign that touching her would be safe or that anything was on offer. And even if she did, the idea that "this is wrong and perverted" has become so ingrained that I couldn't perform even if I wanted to. A bunch of factors may be combining to put your husband in a similar bind with both the "green light" and arousal; performance for guys can be a lot more mental than popular belief gives credit. (And yes, this can absolutely be a huge issue in his dynamic with you while it isn't with his girlfriend; it's due to history.) Bottom line, depending on how far gone things are, you might need to be very direct until reconditioning the other way becomes natural to him. I don't mean walking into the room in a lacy nightie that you feel sexy in (which is still a good thing) - I mean, making very blunt "I want you; I'm in the mood for sex" statements. Eventually, he could start to correlate the two and realize more subtle clues are safe to pursue. I know this sounds very much like "scented candles and lingerie" approach that we're critical of here, but it's not. It's about re-wiring a perspective that's become established over years. (It also ignores his porn and girlfriend, which are certainly issues, but being addressed by other replies.)
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Post by snowman12345 on Dec 1, 2020 18:51:21 GMT -5
My 2 cents as a man in a SM to date for around 8 or 9 years and has been seeing a FWB for about 7 of those years: having an affair partner is definitely not for everyone. It takes a lot of maneuvering to carry on (so to speak). If this is the route you want to go it is doable. I suggest you give it a lot of thought and then think about it some more.
Having a willing sex partner is an amazing blessing for anyone. To give that up for porn is IMHO foolish. To give that up for porn and an AP is beyond stupid.
Yup I am an asshole, and an old, cranky one at that - so I will make judgements based on my world view. You deserve better - go out and find it.
Good luck and I hope you find peace.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 2, 2020 7:42:13 GMT -5
Thank you drycreek and snowman xx I'm going to look into getting some therapy; It's becoming obvious I'm in a bit of a mess  |
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 3, 2020 6:38:15 GMT -5
mirrororchid, (I'm sorry I can't get the quote function to work!) Paragraph starting... 'his willingness to provide for you now .... ' ending with .....' He needs to provide you with a way to win'Will you explain more what you mean please? Big girl pants etc? Do you mean I have to 'make' him want me by jumping on him? I can't do that! I just had another short conversation with him about the hotel question 1........ he was scared of trying etc 2........ he didn't know I was trying blah blah 3.......... if I HAD jumped on him and made it beedin' obvious, would that have miraculously cured the fear of non-performance. ? His answer to that was "Yes". Apparently that is what he 'needs' me to do so he is able to have sex without fear of failing. I CAN'T bloody do this.... I'm not the sort of person who can be someone's personal porn actress just to get him interested- I do not and have NEVER had the sort of confidence that takes. ... I don't think I need the sex THAT much, that I make myself feel soooo uncomfortable trying to get it. I wanted my husband to want me - I think I'm coming to the reality that that's not going to happen (sorry for all the shouting and swearing, but I'm howling my eyes out here)
To reply to another message, Click "Quote" Immediately, click below the box filled with the quoted text and hit return four or five times. When you alter quoted text first, it sometimes becomes impossible to click below the quote box. CAVEAT:
I'm anonymous and I'm an internet commenter. These are two good signs that everything read from here on out should be considered carefully for that which does not apply to your specific situation. They are offers, not commands and barely suggestions. It'd pain me to lead you astray with guesses mistaken for infallible wisdom. Those out of the way, I'll be glad to clarify. I gather that you'd rather do the dance of flirtation. Hints, innuendo, gestures of touch... but he's looking for blunt . "Big boy/girl pants" typically means doing without one's preferred vision of how the world works. Most folks can enjoy the artful dance of adult seduction. You've been shortchanged; thus the need to abandon (at least temporarily) the desire to engage in this fun buildup process. You've said you'd fell like a porn actress to initiate without subtlety. I would hope it would be sufficient to roll over in bed and play with his chest hair, kiss him and drape your fingers south. If he attempts to demur, you can stop and say, "This is what you said you wanted. I'm doing my part. Did you mean what you said?" This is a sexy, zesty wife move. I don't watch porn, but that move strikes me as rated R, not X. (does that ratings system apply in the UK?) You are then giving him what he says he needs from you. That means it strikes me as fair that when you execute a full-on, tasteful, erotic attack like that, he needs to receive it and respond with physical intimacy. Your compromise needs to have a payoff. Failing that, it's not reasonable for you to continue. You need to have a chance for your overtures to succeed and get your ordinary marital desires fulfilled. You may be willing to entertain a "rain check", but then he is obligated to attack you (in a nice way) before you can be expected to initiate again. If he'd like to truly reciprocate completely, he could make an attempt to flirt and respond positively when you pick up on the hints. You attack him his way, he attacks you with yours. If he rejects you, he needs to signal a willingness to get your needs met soon after. Preferably he should be acknowledging his disappointing you. "Oops, sorry hon, I wouldn't, uh, be much fun right now. [ he just finished a round of "solitaire"] Okay if I wake you up tomorrow before work?" (and then follow through, stud.) He says this will work. If it doesn't, that's critical data for you to consider your next move and other suggestions for meeting your needs may be attempts to keep you celibate. (not on purpose, just the lousy consequence of kidding you and maybe himself) You've managed "eggshell" conversations. Seems like this is another one, with actions, not words. Maybe you'll be similarly pleased with your courage afterwards. Noting that without appropriate results, your efforts to meet HIS needs (straightforward sexual requests) need not continue and other suggestions will be met with increasing skepticism and perhaps, alternative remedies. PS "Bloody" isn't swearing on this side of the pond. I find it genteel. If only Americans substituted the F bomb with that sometimes, I think our society would improve some. PPS Therapy isn't just for people who are a mess. It's a good idea to engage in therapy so you don't become a mess. The earlier the intervention, the more objective one can be, I would think. Fixing a mental obstacle without an emotional reaction to that obstacle strikes me as easier. You seem at the end of your rope, but you haven't lost your grip. Just my impression. To some degree, you're doing therapy right now. Expressing your feelings, getting asked questions, explaining your feelings and positions, getting good and bad advice and mulling over which is which. A lot of overlap there, wouldn't you say? "Therapy" is such a charged word. It's just talking stuff out with a person who's done a LOT of it. So much so, they're paid for their time. Many folks here have talked through issues with many many visitors and their experience is not only lengthy but very targeted. A decent start, I'd like to think. |
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 3, 2020 10:10:08 GMT -5
mirrororchid,  I think you're a very wise man And you're right on the 'therapy' thing; the experiences, advice and other points of view on here are SO good to have. During the last 24-36 hours after my last 'sweary' post, my head is clearing wonderfully well...... I'm going to stop panicking and try stuff out . Thanks guys. (I'll be back with any results when I have them!) |
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Post by jerri on Dec 4, 2020 3:04:39 GMT -5
mirrororchid, (I'm sorry I can't get the quote function to work!) Paragraph starting... 'his willingness to provide for you now .... ' ending with .....' He needs to provide you with a way to win'Will you explain more what you mean please? Big girl pants etc? Do you mean I have to 'make' him want me by jumping on him? I can't do that! I just had another short conversation with him about the hotel question 1........ he was scared of trying etc 2........ he didn't know I was trying blah blah 3.......... if I HAD jumped on him and made it beedin' obvious, would that have miraculously cured the fear of non-performance. ? His answer to that was "Yes". Apparently that is what he 'needs' me to do so he is able to have sex without fear of failing. I CAN'T bloody do this.... I'm not the sort of person who can be someone's personal porn actress just to get him interested- I do not and have NEVER had the sort of confidence that takes. ... I don't think I need the sex THAT much, that I make myself feel soooo uncomfortable trying to get it. I wanted my husband to want me - I think I'm coming to the reality that that's not going to happen (sorry for all the shouting and swearing, but I'm howling my eyes out here)
To reply to another message, Click "Quote" Immediately, click below the box filled with the quoted text and hit return four or five times. When you alter quoted text first, it sometimes becomes impossible to click below the quote box. CAVEAT:
I'm anonymous and I'm an internet commenter. These are two good signs that everything read from here on out should be considered carefully for that which does not apply to your specific situation. They are offers, not commands and barely suggestions. It'd pain me to lead you astray with guesses mistaken for infallible wisdom. Those out of the way, I'll be glad to clarify. I gather that you'd rather do the dance of flirtation. Hints, innuendo, gestures of touch... but he's looking for blunt . "Big boy/girl pants" typically means doing without one's preferred vision of how the world works. Most folks can enjoy the artful dance of adult seduction. You've been shortchanged; thus the need to abandon (at least temporarily) the desire to engage in this fun buildup process. You've said you'd fell like a porn actress to initiate without subtlety. I would hope it would be sufficient to roll over in bed and play with his chest hair, kiss him and drape your fingers south. If he attempts to demur, you can stop and say, "This is what you said you wanted. I'm doing my part. Did you mean what you said?" This is a sexy, zesty wife move. I don't watch porn, but that move strikes me as rated R, not X. (does that ratings system apply in the UK?) You are then giving him what he says he needs from you. That means it strikes me as fair that when you execute a full-on, tasteful, erotic attack like that, he needs to receive it and respond with physical intimacy. Your compromise needs to have a payoff. Failing that, it's not reasonable for you to continue. You need to have a chance for your overtures to succeed and get your ordinary marital desires fulfilled. You may be willing to entertain a "rain check", but then he is obligated to attack you (in a nice way) before you can be expected to initiate again. If he'd like to truly reciprocate completely, he could make an attempt to flirt and respond positively when you pick up on the hints. You attack him his way, he attacks you with yours. If he rejects you, he needs to signal a willingness to get your needs met soon after. Preferably he should be acknowledging his disappointing you. "Oops, sorry hon, I wouldn't, uh, be much fun right now. [ he just finished a round of "solitaire"] Okay if I wake you up tomorrow before work?" (and then follow through, stud.) He says this will work. If it doesn't, that's critical data for you to consider your next move and other suggestions for meeting your needs may be attempts to keep you celibate. (not on purpose, just the lousy consequence of kidding you and maybe himself) You've managed "eggshell" conversations. Seems like this is another one, with actions, not words. Maybe you'll be similarly pleased with your courage afterwards. Noting that without appropriate results, your efforts to meet HIS needs (straightforward sexual requests) need not continue and other suggestions will be met with increasing skepticism and perhaps, alternative remedies. PS "Bloody" isn't swearing on this side of the pond. I find it genteel. If only Americans substituted the F bomb with that sometimes, I think our society would improve some. PPS Therapy isn't just for people who are a mess. It's a good idea to engage in therapy so you don't become a mess. The earlier the intervention, the more objective one can be, I would think. Fixing a mental obstacle without an emotional reaction to that obstacle strikes me as easier. You seem at the end of your rope, but you haven't lost your grip. Just my impression. To some degree, you're doing therapy right now. Expressing your feelings, getting asked questions, explaining your feelings and positions, getting good and bad advice and mulling over which is which. A lot of overlap there, wouldn't you say? "Therapy" is such a charged word. It's just talking stuff out with a person who's done a LOT of it. So much so, they're paid for their time. Many folks here have talked through issues with many many visitors and their experience is not only lengthy but very targeted. A decent start, I'd like to think. I like the idea of giving subtle cues that you feel comfortable with. He is giving you a roadmap. I don't know if it is conditional. The one thing that a therapist will ask you both is were you assertive and did you initiate. Do the give and take and tell him how he can make you feel better. I had asked so many times that I told my H to bring a gift and I would bring one too and I would lay it on his pillow. That was a sign that the night would have some intimacy. We both responded and l didn't have to thnk, am I going to be rejected tonight? I put his gift there and later his gift was there. Next week tell him to... |
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 4, 2020 4:55:57 GMT -5
Thank you Jerri, the 'present on the pillow' thing is another idea to put into the armoury! |
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Post by csl on Dec 4, 2020 11:27:31 GMT -5
Thank you Jerri, the 'present on the pillow' thing is another idea to put into the armoury! Basically, are we looking at the Forty Beads method, or a variation thereof? |
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Dec 4, 2020 11:40:58 GMT -5
Errr.... 40 beads, csl?
Never heard this one before.....
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Post by Handy on Dec 4, 2020 11:45:36 GMT -5
A long time ago I saw pillow covers with a cartoonish pear and a worm. There was a caption on one side of the pillow cover "Wan'a Pear up?"
I guess that is one way to suggest a sexual session.
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I don't geddit.......
)
)
I just had another short conversation with him about the hotel question 1........ he was scared of trying etc 
