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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Nov 27, 2020 17:30:24 GMT -5
Thanks Baza xx
Good answer - hadn't thought of it like that!
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Post by Handy on Nov 27, 2020 17:47:09 GMT -5
usually a forum is mostly to support the poster so if your H saw this forum, you would lose the advantage the form can bring to you.
If your H was reasonable the forum's ideas might help the relationship but that rarely happens.
So,go for the long shot and have your H read this forum and hope it improves your relationship OR risk the loss of the forum (not the forum people) but a safe place where you can express your feelings without your H's knowing about it.
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Post by padgemi on Nov 27, 2020 18:43:23 GMT -5
Thanks Baza xx Good answer - hadn't thought of it like that! I wonder what would happen if instead of government mandated premarital counseling, which didn’t work in my case, they would mandate every couple listen to this song over and over until it gets stuck in our little heads... padgemi 2024 JK 🤪 |
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Post by baza on Nov 27, 2020 20:32:38 GMT -5
I forgot to add one rather important piece of info to the whole sorry original post - my H is possibly a little bit autistic. (Obviously he went to school well before this sort of thing was even thought about, let alone picked-up on, so he never had a real diagnosis) And something else unexpected - he says he's never taken advantage of the 'don't ask/don't tell' whilst he has been out of the country! Thanks for reading, thinking and commenting folks :-) It is not one bit unusual in this group for the refusive spouse to have some sort of "issue" (diagnosed or undiagnosed) Sister gladifoundthisforum . And, it is NOT your job to try and cure them. That, is their gig, and only their gig. You can, of course, be a person of support to the person with the "issue", but it is not within your capabilities to fix it. Invariably your choice comes down to being able to live with the refusive spouse and their "issue", or not. And there's no correct answer to that question. Staying is a perfectly legitimate choice - and so is leaving - and so is cheating. Lucky 'you' is charged with the responsibility of choosing. |
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timedelay
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Age Range: 46-50
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Post by timedelay on Nov 28, 2020 6:38:51 GMT -5
Part of me wants to direct him to this site to read this thread........ is this a dreadful idea? Would he feel insulted by having other people discussing his behaviour, without his having had any say in it's being put up for dissection. (It is, after all, completely anonymous, so he wouldn't feel 'betrayed' or publicly humiliated, would he???) What do you guys all think? Hi and welcome and I so hope that you find this place a helpful one as you try to figure out where you go next.
I can only share my own experiences with my own disinterested husband so please ignore whatever doesn't make sense to you but feel free to chat to me if anything does resonate with your own situation.
My two cents on your question above; my husband baulked at knowing how my discussions with others were going (still does). He would definitely see this as betrayal and an attack on him personally and would withdraw even further. I know that it's tempting to try shaking them up a bit by getting them to confront other folks' opinions but it's important to remember they do not share our persepective on what it's like to be so rejected.
For what it's worth, my story is a little bit different in that (since finding iliasm 16months ago) I have opened my mind and heart to viewing relationships as far more diverse in nature than our society has made room for. A marriage (church, common law or other) can take many many forms. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is the people in that marriage/relationship are happy and on the same page re how they live their own truths. I won't lie and say it's been easy to embrace a different worldview; many tears have been shed along the way but I wouldn't go back to that confused, painful place I was in for years prior to getting here.
Others have recommended an open minded therapist and I agree. If paying privately isn't an option there are often student counsellors seeking pro bono work and tbh it's not the qualifications that matter in therapy; the rapport and objectivity are the most important elements.
p.s. I'm in Ireland and can confirm there are far more of us on this side of the Atlantic than this website might suggest!
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 28, 2020 7:06:28 GMT -5
Part of me wants to direct him to this site to read this thread........ is this a dreadful idea? Would he feel insulted by having other people discussing his behaviour, without his having had any say in it's being put up for dissection. (It is, after all, completely anonymous, so he wouldn't feel 'betrayed' or publicly humiliated, would he???) What do you guys all think? At the onset I would expect introducing him to this site would be a waste of time. Since he has shown little interest in working with you to bring about a resolution to your dysfunctional marriage I see no reason having a bunch of strangers adding their 2 cents worth being of much help. My X and I had a number of "talks" in which I expressed how unhappy I was with the sexless aspect of our marriage. She readily agreed she was at fault and following the talks she would reset me for a couple of weeks then go back to refusing. Unless or until he sees his actions as hurtful to you and the marriage and places more importance on you and that relationship, he is unlikely to give a "hoot in hell" about what he might read here. |
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Nov 28, 2020 9:09:12 GMT -5
Part of me wants to direct him to this site to read this thread........ is this a dreadful idea? Would he feel insulted by having other people discussing his behaviour, without his having had any say in it's being put up for dissection. (It is, after all, completely anonymous, so he wouldn't feel 'betrayed' or publicly humiliated, would he???) What do you guys all think? Hi and welcome and I so hope that you find this place a helpful one as you try to figure out where you go next.
I can only share my own experiences with my own disinterested husband so please ignore whatever doesn't make sense to you but feel free to chat to me if anything does resonate with your own situation.
My two cents on your question above; my husband baulked at knowing how my discussions with others were going (still does). He would definitely see this as betrayal and an attack on him personally and would withdraw even further. I know that it's tempting to try shaking them up a bit by getting them to confront other folks' opinions but it's important to remember they do not share our persepective on what it's like to be so rejected.
For what it's worth, my story is a little bit different in that (since finding iliasm 16months ago) I have opened my mind and heart to viewing relationships as far more diverse in nature than our society has made room for. A marriage (church, common law or other) can take many many forms. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is the people in that marriage/relationship are happy and on the same page re how they live their own truths. I won't lie and say it's been easy to embrace a different worldview; many tears have been shed along the way but I wouldn't go back to that confused, painful place I was in for years prior to getting here.
Others have recommended an open minded therapist and I agree. If paying privately isn't an option there are often student counsellors seeking pro bono work and tbh it's not the qualifications that matter in therapy; the rapport and objectivity are the most important elements.
p.s. I'm in Ireland and can confirm there are far more of us on this side of the Atlantic than this website might suggest!
The *serious* thought of visiting a therapist has really never struck me before. Perhaps I should; it is a bloody good idea to sort out in my own head what I really want to do before making possible mistakes. In the past when I thought of 'therapy' type stuff, I thought it was because I wanted somebody (totally 'outside' my life, with no 'side to be on') to tell me 'yes you're right, yes he's a bastard, here have loads of sympathy, yes you should leave'. So once I'd calmed down and got over the row/problem that brought the thought on, I thought it was a silly thing to want, so forgot about it.... This shows that obviously I know nothing at all about therapy  Thanks for the thought and reply  p.s. there was an article in the British Guardian a few days ago, where one of the 'below-the-line' comments mentioned this website; this brought me here, there may be others on this side of the pond who are now aware of iliasm's existence! |
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Post by saarinista on Nov 28, 2020 12:02:57 GMT -5
gladifoundthisforum please seriously consider getting therapy. A decent therapist is basically like a friend who know a lot and is sworn to secrecy. As such, you can bounce anything you wish to off of him/her without fear of it getting back to other people. Fear of being found out is a big reason a lot of us don't talk about things we need to talk about. I've had lots of therapy over the years and have found it absolutely essential to my ongoing existence. No, I don't have it all together, but I haven't given up either. One problem in the US is that you generally have to self pay due to our suboptimal health care system. Hopefully, therapy is more easily accessible in the commonwealth nations. If not, I'm guessing there are probably sliding fee scale therapists available over there. Or, check with a mental health nonprofit organization /NGO for recommendations if cost is an issue.
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timedelay
Full Member
Posts: 153
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by timedelay on Nov 28, 2020 14:10:50 GMT -5
Hi and welcome and I so hope that you find this place a helpful one as you try to figure out where you go next. The *serious* thought of visiting a therapist has really never struck me before. Perhaps I should; it is a bloody good idea to sort out in my own head what I really want to do before making possible mistakes. In the past when I thought of 'therapy' type stuff, I thought it was because I wanted somebody (totally 'outside' my life, with no 'side to be on') to tell me 'yes you're right, yes he's a bastard, here have loads of sympathy, yes you should leave'. So once I'd calmed down and got over the row/problem that brought the thought on, I thought it was a silly thing to want, so forgot about it.... This shows that obviously I know nothing at all about therapy Thanks for the thought and reply p.s. there was an article in the British Guardian a few days ago, where one of the 'below-the-line' comments mentioned this website; this brought me here, there may be others on this side of the pond who are now aware of iliasm's existence! I hear you on the therapy thing. I didn't believe talking to a stranger could possibly help with a husband who avoided sexual intimacy. I think if pressed I'd have said they'd probably only tell me that yes it must be my fault and to do something to 'make' him desire me  In fact I'm only getting therapy, for myself, now (had my first session just last week) because it's become clear that I need to work through an awful lot of shit that has happened since I first met my H, 30 years ago.
What we believe about ourselves has a huge impact on what decisions we make in the face of challenging relationships. I mean those core beliefs that many of us are unaware of and that convince us we are unworthy in some way. From reading your story, it seems that you have held some pretty poor opinions about yourself and your physical appearance. Well done btw on all that hard work at the gym; hate the places! I'm sure it's become clear that it's not your body that is turning your husband off (or on). It's so much more complex than that; always is. I noticed you mentioned he is a bit shouty and angry. Considering it's well understood that anger is usually a response to an underlying fear; What do you think he's afraid of?
My husband says he prefered to be angry than guilty (before I dragged the truth out of him) and he still slides back into an angrier/defensive frame of mind occasionally that seems to stem from fears over me dating other people. He won't see a therapist but will talk things through with me these days. He's a bit of a mess really; completely crap at explaining his own emotions and requires a lot of patience and hand holding. I love him and deeply value our relationship and am willing to do the work to reframe it into something that nurtures both of us. Still so much work to do on this but I'm hopeful my therapist will help me in that regard. She is kink, poly and ace friendly. I know that I'm lucky to have a H who is willing to choose an alternative to the norm but he is lucky to have a wife willing to think outside the box. It sounds like your H is damn lucky as well and might need that pointed out to him. Repeatedly.
Interesting about the Guardian article!
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Post by petrushka on Nov 28, 2020 14:40:58 GMT -5
The *serious* thought of visiting a therapist has really never struck me before. Perhaps I should; it is a bloody good idea to sort out in my own head what I really want to do before making possible mistakes. In the past when I thought of 'therapy' type stuff, I thought it was because I wanted somebody (totally 'outside' my life, with no 'side to be on') to tell me 'yes you're right, yes he's a bastard, here have loads of sympathy, yes you should leave'. So once I'd calmed down and got over the row/problem that brought the thought on, I thought it was a silly thing to want, so forgot about it.... This shows that obviously I know nothing at all about therapy Thanks for the thought and reply p.s. there was an article in the British Guardian a few days ago, where one of the 'below-the-line' comments mentioned this website; this brought me here, there may be others on this side of the pond who are now aware of iliasm's existence!
I can only echo baza's advice that 'right' or 'wrong' don't really matter. What really matters is a) where it's at, and b) how you feel about it and where you want to go from here. A half decent therapist should be able to help you work on the latter.
T'other day I saw my GP and mentioned that I had observed myself as dancing near the edge of a depression, and he offered the services of a in-house psychologist. So I went and saw her and had a lovely chat for an hour, just got some things out on the table - mostly that I was feeling lonely outside my marriage. We made an action plan; none of that plan actually happened but I did start something else new and am feeling happier now.
B.t.w. that was me who put iliasm.org into The Guardian article - heh. I noticed the next day we had 420 guests on the site where we normally have 20 or so. That agony aunt of theirs is bloody clueless in my opinion - her stupid advice has often stuck in my craw.  More like Mary Poppins than a psychologist. |
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Nov 28, 2020 15:04:23 GMT -5
Oh dear... I think I've just done something terrible. I have emailed my H the basis of my original post on here. No! I've not sent him to this forum, and I removed any references to USA or that fact that it was being posted *anywhere* But left the info in the post about exactly the same. He replied pretty quickly with several 're-cursive' points. What I mean is that the point was kinda 'turned round' to be my problem. Things like my feelings about his choice of porn ; his answer was along the lines of 'lots and lots of people like really weird types of sex, some much worse than this, this is pretty normal for the modern world....' yes, I know that objectively is true, but it doesn't make me feel better or less sickened. Or make me feel happy about it being 'normal' for him. Me trying to get him interested in sex (when it turned out he'd already emptied the balls.....) answer; he didn't know I was trying to get him into it -I wasn't obvious enough. I need to shove my tits in his face or something....... But he was the one telling ME he was 'too tired' 'too stressed' etc .... so he musta known I was trying  Describing his relationship with the GF as being '99% talk, not much physical at all, and certainly not emotionally dangerous' Making it sound as though he was going to the doctor and I have to be oh so understanding of his relationship 'to make him better' I got cross. Fired an email back saying the above and then sent the original email to his girlfriend  shit, whatthell have I just done. |
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Post by curious81 on Nov 28, 2020 15:17:12 GMT -5
that was me who put iliasm.org into The Guardian article - heh. I noticed the next day we had 420 guests on the site where we normally have 20 or so.[/div] That agony aunt of theirs is bloody clueless in my opinion - her stupid advice has often stuck in my craw. More like Mary Poppins than a psychologist. [/quote] I couldn’t work out how I came about this site. Must be because I read the guardian and the article about the man whose stunning wife didn’t want sex with him. I must have read your comment! Thanks!! This has helped SO much! Feel happier just reading and hearing other people’s stories here x |
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Post by saarinista on Nov 28, 2020 15:37:28 GMT -5
gladifoundthisforum a gentle suggestion: you might consider worrying more about YOUR needs and feelings, as opposed to agonizing over whether you're going to offend him or ruin your relationship with him through something you do or say. In my experience, words and convincing almost never bring the sex back. If they can bring them back, you'll do better being honest than you will monitoring every word and action trying to manipulate a reset that won't last. I've found that a marriage based on my walking on eggshells really isn't much of a marriage at all.
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timedelay
Full Member
Posts: 153
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by timedelay on Nov 28, 2020 16:28:00 GMT -5
Oh dear... I think I've just done something terrible. I have emailed my H the basis of my original post on here. No! I've not sent him to this forum, and I removed any references to USA or that fact that it was being posted *anywhere* But left the info in the post about exactly the same. He replied pretty quickly with several 're-cursive' points. What I mean is that the point was kinda 'turned round' to be my problem. Things like my feelings about his choice of porn ; his answer was along the lines of 'lots and lots of people like really weird types of sex, some much worse than this, this is pretty normal for the modern world....' yes, I know that objectively is true, but it doesn't make me feel better or less sickened. Or make me feel happy about it being 'normal' for him. Me trying to get him interested in sex (when it turned out he'd already emptied the balls.....) answer; he didn't know I was trying to get him into it -I wasn't obvious enough. I need to shove my tits in his face or something....... But he was the one telling ME he was 'too tired' 'too stressed' etc .... so he musta known I was trying Describing his relationship with the GF as being '99% talk, not much physical at all, and certainly not emotionally dangerous' Making it sound as though he was going to the doctor and I have to be oh so understanding of his relationship 'to make him better' I got cross. Fired an email back saying the above and then sent the original email to his girlfriend shit, whatthell have I just done. I don't think this is such a 'bad' thing. You've laid out how you've been experiencing things. He has given you some clear insight into how he has been experiencing things. You already knew there was a mismatch; both of you now know what the other has been thinking/feeling. Why not sit down and discuss how these perspectives are so out of synch? What kind of relationship do you both want from here on? This could be used as a point of reference for sorting out all the miscommunication between you. As for his relationship with his gf. You two really need to decide the boundaries on that one; if you can agree to it continuing while you work on your own relationship with him (provided, of course, that you decide you want to work on it). By the same token, the only people who can decide on the level of communication you have with his gf are you and her. Don't beat yourself up over copying and pasting your email to her; not the end of the world, worse things you could've done. It's her prerogative to respond and in what vein; you can deal with that if it happens. I'm not hung up on all discussions taking place face to face; emails, text messages, WhatsApp voice notes all have their place. Sometimes going for a drive and having hard conversations work well because the pressure to look directly at one another is removed. There is no right or wrong way to navigate this kind of messy time. It's bloody hard. It's bloody upsetting. You're muddling through as best you can. Don't forget to mind yourself at the same time. I find taking breaks from the tough discussions is a good idea too but it's both of you who have to agree on what strategies you can adopt to move forward. |
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 29, 2020 6:39:26 GMT -5
Oh dear... I think I've just done something terrible....shit, whatthell have I just done. Relax. Look at it this way. He knows you are waking up to your reality. About three years ago I had a discussion with my wife, and she found this place simply by googling phrases I used. If she memorized those phrases long enough to google them, which she did, the next move was hers. She posted twice and disappeared. She knew the problems, she knew I knew, and the days of bullshit excuses were over. shari had the option of stay or leave. There was no more cheat, because she'd been cheating me out of a complete marriage for a quarter decade and I wasn't going to tolerate that anymore. So, worst case, your H ignores this and nothing changes. Or, you have some productive if maybe heated discussions, and move this charade to either healing or completion. Don't let things you can't change bother you. Figure out what you can change, and find your happiness. |
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In fact I'm only getting therapy, for myself, now (had my first session just last week) because it's become clear that I need to work through an awful lot of shit that has happened since I first met my H, 30 years ago. 
More like Mary Poppins than a psychologist.
