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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 16, 2020 21:17:53 GMT -5
I have spent a long time delving deeply into my feelings over the last 2 or 3 weeks ; hopefully I'm getting somewhere near the bottom now. The lowest levels of emotion within me have turned up a few suprises : the most recent shocker is that I'm jealous. Not jealous of the new girlfriend, or that he's even got one , I'm jealous that he can now manage a sex life at home *and* go out and have fun somewhere else and I'm not. I may bring in the 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' defence , in the future I liked what I was reading until I got to the end. And i apologize if I have misread your intent . I understand the possible desire for outsourcing on your part. But what I didn't much like was the seemingly tic for tac approach in considering an AP. My thoughts are that if you are giving an AP some thought it should be because having an AP will add some quantity and quality to your life. Taking on an AP I would hope would be for the positive aspect it brings, not as a means to level the playing field or get even. Grudge f*cking another person isn't likely to be satisfying for you and it certainly isn't fair to the other person unless you are upfront about the purpose for engaging in the sex. If I were the male you coupled with i would want to know up front it was a grudge f*ck.
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Post by jerri on Dec 16, 2020 22:07:33 GMT -5
I haven't read everything, but I understood it to be male fellowship/ boyfriend experience?
Her H claims he is not f'ing the girlfriend?
Not that I think he's loyal.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Jan 17, 2021 21:45:47 GMT -5
Hello Folks, I hate to admit it, and you all knew it was coming........ the end of the reset is in view :-(
It feels *exactly* the same as the end of the '2nd honeymoon' 6 years ago. (that time it was due to heavy work stresses apparently) And yes, he's really stressed out at the moment (for very good reasons - elderly parent trouble- so I *have* to be understanding: I can't get shirty with him in this situation)
I have been as obvious as I can (to the point of the invitations lasting forever: I've been sending them by e-mail in plain English! these are un-deniable...)
He's not been able to see the girlfriend (covid etc), he's under stress, he 'needs an orgasm a day', he has a willing wife......... and turns her down. 3 times in a row.
Why can't i get it through my thick head that HE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH ME.
aaarrrgh.
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Post by baza on Jan 17, 2021 22:43:58 GMT -5
Back in your late November post I suggested you could see a lawyer to establish how a divorce would shake out for you - and thus be in a position where you know quite a bit about that option. Not that you would necessarily go down that road at this time, but, as one of the few options you've got, it warrants diligently checking out. Actually, any married person (whether the marriage is an ILIASM shithole or a marriage made in heaven) needs to know the implications of becoming "unmarried" - because ALL marriages end ..... death or divorce see to that fact. Sorry to hear that your deals trajectory is following the "usual" path evident in here Sister gladifoundthisforum .
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Post by jerri on Jan 18, 2021 0:36:28 GMT -5
If l was in your sh!tuation I would want to know if he was shagging her. I would want a keylogger on his computer and phone. Maybe I would have a camera hidden and go on holiday. I just don't trust anyone that's not putting out but has a girlfriend.
He's stressed I understand, but it's the perfect opportunity to watch. And you have a right to know since he's not intimate. That depends if you even want to know. Smells fishy.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Jan 18, 2021 3:37:05 GMT -5
Hello jerri, No he's definitely not seeing the girlfriend; he *can't* have done, he's not been anywhere! (covid etc)
I'm starting to make myself feel pretty bad about wanting to have sex with somebody who, patently obviously, DOESN'T want to have sex with me, even when he has no other option. (this knowledge is becoming a great turn-off)
I'm starting to feel as though I've been 'paid' with the occasionally shag : as in he's scared that his cook/cleaner/housekeeper/bookkeeper/personal assistant/oppo/etc will leave unless he throws her the odd fuck. Not sure I actually want to have sex for those reasons.
Thanks for your support again baza; I reckon it's time I looked at things in a more business-like manner.....
(H and I have to go away for 3 days or so, for reasons of 'elderly parent trouble' (Covidly speaking this is definitely 'essential travel'!) and I'm one of the few adults in the modern western world *without* a smart phone. So if anybody leaves more support or advice on this thread, I'm NOT ignoring you, I'm just incommunicado until Thurs! )
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 18, 2021 7:07:43 GMT -5
If l was in your sh!tuation I would want to know if he was shagging her. I would want a keylogger on his computer and phone. Maybe I would have a camera hidden and go on holiday. I just don't trust anyone that's not putting out but has a girlfriend. He's stressed I understand, but it's the perfect opportunity to watch. And you have a right to know since he's not intimate. That depends if you even want to know. Smells fishy. To what end? To Baza's point, maybe she's in a geographic area where infidelity means larger divorce settlement? Given her knowledge of the situation, it rings a bit hollow to play that card. If he's sexless with both women, does that help to know, in her case? It's substantial investment of time to prove something that won't get her intimacy she wants. Might that time be better spent on the usual prep Baza and others recommend? Sorting your sh*t out. Shoring up life skills that have grown soft from depending in a spouse, self-esteem boosts (fitness, education, business promotion, squirreling money, etc.) The whole spycraft approach to marriage is to validate one's feelings of distrust. There's two results form that. You either establish said trust's status and be done with it, one way or the other. Or you endlessly look for weaknesses in the cad's defenses. Perpetual distrust is exhausting and miserable. A spouse who's true doesn't deserve relentless suspicion and you should leave. A skunk you can stay with aware that he's a skunk, or leave ASAP. Maybe open the marriage on both ends and add a monogamous partner to one's life (or poly. A refused spouse would be odd to demand fidelity from a mistress/mister (the male form of mistress. had to google it. No wonder doctors insist on their titles sometimes.) Just remembered a funny (to me) proposal I thought of for women that are dubious about taking back a cheating husband. Write up a post-nup. If he's caught cheating again, the post-nup calls for a 60-40 split. Or 70-30. Etc. His reaction may tell you volumes about his intentions. Fidelity? Or being more careful next time. You're then getting well paid for your P.I. schtick should you find a second cell phone in his sock drawer, still charged. I'd like to modify Apocrypha 's common question. Is surveillance what you bought into when you said "I do"? Is it a marriage? Or a stealth intelligence operation? If this is what has become of your life, maybe a hard pass is it order.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 19, 2021 11:24:36 GMT -5
I was married to and living with a man who liked to get off on watching women being brutalised in the most degrading fashion. (Now I do understand that the more 'drug' one takes (whatever the addiction is) more and more- or more and more extreme- is needed to get the same effect. This knowledge does not make it any the less horrible, though) There's a lot to your story - this one was a red flag for me - maybe you can share a bit more here. Factually, many women enjoy anal, including hard anal, or the fantasy of it. As for degradation, submission and dominance (with brutal anal, torture, or humiliation, bondage, degradation, tickling, financial dominance as various routes toward role-played surrender), there are far more submissives than dominants, and it's often the case that submissives will set the agenda for the sexual experience they want to have. They crave the intensity as a way to feel temporarily and intensely "powerless" so they can get out of their heads for a bit and into their bodies. Just because your husband looks at or fantasizes about, or enjoys the representation of these scenarios does not necessarily mean he personally wants to do them. It can be driven by someone else in his life, it can exist in fantasy-only, and even if he is "into it", is generally a role-played route toward achieving a psychological feeling that's particular to "the scene". What you wrote above indicates a pretty far leap for you to make toward a conclusion, and that conclusion seems steeped in sexual contempt. Do you think that might play a role in any of this? Does that contempt exist in a wider context of religious or gender-ideology views that may be a more broad factor in your relationship? I'm asking that latter question because I have observed many times in my circles, a particular brand of gender-ideology or chauvanism in some cases, that seems unsurprisingly correlated to relationship dysfunction, with the men and women exhibiting those rigid and contemptuous gender views feeling totally at a loss as to why their partner has disconnected from them, or why they can't seem to get a date and keep her/him.
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Post by jerri on Jan 19, 2021 16:40:26 GMT -5
If l was in your sh!tuation I would want to know if he was shagging her. I would want a keylogger on his computer and phone. Maybe I would have a camera hidden and go on holiday. I just don't trust anyone that's not putting out but has a girlfriend. He's stressed I understand, but it's the perfect opportunity to watch. And you have a right to know since he's not intimate. That depends if you even want to know. Smells fishy. To what end? To Baza's point, maybe she's in a geographic area where infidelity means larger divorce settlement? Given her knowledge of the situation, it rings a bit hollow to play that card. If he's sexless with both women, does that help to know, in her case? It's substantial investment of time to prove something that won't get her intimacy she wants. Might that time be better spent on the usual prep Baza and others recommend? Sorting your sh*t out. Shoring up life skills that have grown soft from depending in a spouse, self-esteem boosts (fitness, education, business promotion, squirreling money, etc.) The whole spycraft approach to marriage is to validate one's feelings of distrust. There's two results form that. You either establish said trust's status and be done with it, one way or the other. Or you endlessly look for weaknesses in the cad's defenses. Perpetual distrust is exhausting and miserable. A spouse who's true doesn't deserve relentless suspicion and you should leave. A skunk you can stay with aware that he's a skunk, or leave ASAP. Maybe open the marriage on both ends and add a monogamous partner to one's life (or poly. A refused spouse would be odd to demand fidelity from a mistress/mister (the male form of mistress. had to google it. No wonder doctors insist on their titles sometimes.) Just remembered a funny (to me) proposal I thought of for women that are dubious about taking back a cheating husband. Write up a post-nup. If he's caught cheating again, the post-nup calls for a 60-40 split. Or 70-30. Etc. His reaction may tell you volumes about his intentions. Fidelity? Or being more careful next time. You're then getting well paid for your P.I. schtick should you find a second cell phone in his sock drawer, still charged. ^^^^^^^^LOVE This^^^^^^I'd like to modify Apocrypha 's common question. Is surveillance what you bought into when you said "I do"? Is it a marriage? Or a stealth intelligence operation? If this is what has become of your life, maybe a hard pass is it order. It's a choice I would want for myself and I personally would not want to be in a sexless M where my H was shagging another woman, but not taking care of me. At that point, I think it would be very easy to justify stepping out of the marriage, no questions asked and leaving. if he only had the courtesy to shag another woman when I was left at home, working, cooking, cleaning, crying silently because he would not make love to me, but showed sibling love? Gee, no thanks. If he was making us both happy in the sack, that is something I could live with. I don't want to get sick and find out that I didn't have a caring husband all along. One that would just pick up and go because I got cancer... Just show me your true colors upfront. I will gladly listen.It is so easy today, with keyloggers, gps, small recording devices, cameras... you don't have to be distrusting in a way that really disrupts ones life. You just have to be curious. We spend so many hours wondering why, why not find out? use that time to find out.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 20, 2021 8:24:16 GMT -5
It is so easy today, with keyloggers, gps, small recording devices, cameras... you don't have to be distrusting in a way that really disrupts ones life. You just have to be curious. We spend so many hours wondering why, why not find out? use that time to find out. Efficient "why chasing" I might well endorse. If any complaints arise out of the perceived lack of trust/respect for privacy, one could simply explain that a reason for forced celibacy is mandatory and was not forthcoming voluntarily. If divorce ensues, problem solved, in a way. SMs may require drastic measures. Interesting competing ethical conundrums.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Jan 22, 2021 13:02:04 GMT -5
I was married to and living with a man who liked to get off on watching women being brutalised in the most degrading fashion. (Now I do understand that the more 'drug' one takes (whatever the addiction is) more and more- or more and more extreme- is needed to get the same effect. This knowledge does not make it any the less horrible, though) There's a lot to your story - this one was a red flag for me - maybe you can share a bit more here. Factually, many women enjoy anal, including hard anal, or the fantasy of it. As for degradation, submission and dominance (with brutal anal, torture, or humiliation, bondage, degradation, tickling, financial dominance as various routes toward role-played surrender), there are far more submissives than dominants, and it's often the case that submissives will set the agenda for the sexual experience they want to have. They crave the intensity as a way to feel temporarily and intensely "powerless" so they can get out of their heads for a bit and into their bodies. Just because your husband looks at or fantasizes about, or enjoys the representation of these scenarios does not necessarily mean he personally wants to do them. It can be driven by someone else in his life, it can exist in fantasy-only, and even if he is "into it", is generally a role-played route toward achieving a psychological feeling that's particular to "the scene". What you wrote above indicates a pretty far leap for you to make toward a conclusion, and that conclusion seems steeped in sexual contempt. Do you think that might play a role in any of this? Does that contempt exist in a wider context of religious or gender-ideology views that may be a more broad factor in your relationship? I'm asking that latter question because I have observed many times in my circles, a particular brand of gender-ideology or chauvanism in some cases, that seems unsurprisingly correlated to relationship dysfunction, with the men and women exhibiting those rigid and contemptuous gender views feeling totally at a loss as to why their partner has disconnected from them, or why they can't seem to get a date and keep her/him. Hello Apocrypha, No, I'm not at all religious. I'm not even agnostic! I'm definitely atheistic. The thing about my 'sickened' reaction to his choice of porn : well, I'm not 100% sure why it turns me off so much. (I did try anal once and was unable to do it through the pain, and that was with a partner going gently) As far as 'gender -ideology' stuff goes, I'm not quite sure what that means? But one of the things about anal sex in general that I find distasteful, is that it's got nothing to do with 'female' anatomy, but it always seems to be about women being on the receiving end of something that's painful and nothing to do with a sexual organ ...... (Yes I know that *some* (straight) men like it, but on the whole they're not letting anybody near their bum-hole! ) It reminds me of a (slightly bitter) joke ; Husband to wife " Darling, I'd love to try anal sex..." wife to husband "of course dear, you first...." I heard somebody (male) once say that they *knew* anal was painful to their gf, that was why they did it!
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 22, 2021 14:16:56 GMT -5
The thing about my 'sickened' reaction to his choice of porn : well, I'm not 100% sure why it turns me off so much. (I did try anal once and was unable to do it through the pain, and that was with a partner going gently) Prefacing: you, like anyone, are entitled to preferences. I'm not discussing that here. Regarding anal sex, there are two main factors - that define the experience: a partner's desire and ability to receive it (much like vaginal sex, one's mental state toward it can affect the body's ability to receive it), a partner's skill in delivering it, including the use of lubricant in the appropriate amounts. Your personal experience with it, one time with one person, was not an objective reading that applies to all of it. Many men and women do not find it to be painful at all. You had a bad experience. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is a bad experience for everyone, and that anyone who wants it, wants to inflict a bad experience. You could apply it equally to "spicy food". If you have a sensitive palate, the notion of eating Suicide Hot Wings may seem absurd, whereas many people enjoy the intensity. It doesn't mean that anyone who plonks a bowl of Ghost Chili Paqui chips down hates women. Gay men have been having anal sex with each other - so I don't see that looking at it as a way to inflict pain on women is particularly appropriate. If your partner isn't looking up gay male sex, that's likely a result of his heterosexuality, not a result of his hatred of women. If you google up "pegging" (NSFW) you will also see that many straight men also enjoy receiving anal sex from their female partners. And many women ALSO enjoy delivering this experience to their male or female partners (via a device) despite not receiving physical pleasure themselves from it. Moreover, the comment about it being not a sexual organ... seems ... look - it's not a procreative organ, but it is an intimate part of your body, and it experiences sensation. Similarly hands, feet, lips, legs, skin - are not necessarily sexual organs - but surely all of them certainly can fit within a sexual intimate context. How do you know it wasn't her requesting that experience? I've had more than one girlfriend or prospective girlfriend explain to me plainly that they enjoyed and wanted anal sex and that it was an important part of their sex lives. Many people enjoy pain within a safe or controlled context in their sex lives (whether anal or through some other method), as a way of feeling "not in control" for a while - they want to feel "not in charge" or "taken" by someone else. Many people need this or some other form of intensity, in fact, as the only way they can get out of their heads enough to experience pleasure. By "gender ideology" I mean misandry - or "hatred of men", located within a wider political context that sees women as victims and men as brutes. Your framing of anal sex in this circumstance as something that's done with intention to harm women- who are passive receptacles with no agency of their own - and no awareness of its presence in the context of gay male behavior or in straight men and women - suggests to me that you have an ungenerous view of male sexuality that you are attaching to your husband. I don't know how old you are or where you are from, but while anal sex might be often viewed as a "once in a while" variety thing, it's not really generally considered an exotic perversion anymore by Western standards. Regardless, you are entitled to your experience and preferences. He to his, as well. What I'm seeing here as I pull this thread, is that you are treating pretty normal sexual act between adults with disgust. You are transferring that disgust to your husband for merely looking at or fantasizing about it - when apparently he is not even approaching you for it (nor would he if he anticipates this precise reaction). And, most importantly - more than a difference in sexual curiosities - you are also making a moral judgment, implying that he and anyone wanting or participating in anal sex is enacting some need to harm women in general, or misogyny. That's a pretty big leap and a devastating payload to deliver on someone. It's steeped in contempt. With that in mind, I would think it unsurprising that a loss of physical intimacy would be a downstream result from such an ungenerous characterization. To be clear - it's not the difference in preference of activity or sexual curiosity that I'd be most concerned about - it's the environment of moral characterization and contempt that's likely to have a chilling effect.
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Post by Handy on Jan 22, 2021 16:13:43 GMT -5
Gladifoundthisforum ....... it's got nothing to do with 'female' anatomy, but it always seems to be about women being on the receiving end of something that's painful and nothing to do with a sexual organ ......
I am going to say, what you feel is perfectly OK. People have preferences and that is normal.
I heard somebody (male) once say that they *knew* anal was painful to their gf, that was why they did it! I never heard anything like that before. All I heard was that anal sex was "tighter" than PIV sex.
Lots of people don't like anal sex because of the gut bacteria. OTH, I read anal sex was the only way one woman could orgasm.
Just count me as a PIV man.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Jan 23, 2021 7:47:46 GMT -5
The thing about my 'sickened' reaction to his choice of porn : well, I'm not 100% sure why it turns me off so much. (I did try anal once and was unable to do it through the pain, and that was with a partner going gently) Prefacing: you, like anyone, are entitled to preferences. I'm not discussing that here. Regarding anal sex, there are two main factors - that define the experience: a partner's desire and ability to receive it (much like vaginal sex, one's mental state toward it can affect the body's ability to receive it), a partner's skill in delivering it, including the use of lubricant in the appropriate amounts. Your personal experience with it, one time with one person, was not an objective reading that applies to all of it. Many men and women do not find it to be painful at all. You had a bad experience. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is a bad experience for everyone, and that anyone who wants it, wants to inflict a bad experience. You could apply it equally to "spicy food". If you have a sensitive palate, the notion of eating Suicide Hot Wings may seem absurd, whereas many people enjoy the intensity. It doesn't mean that anyone who plonks a bowl of Ghost Chili Paqui chips down hates women. Gay men have been having anal sex with each other - so I don't see that looking at it as a way to inflict pain on women is particularly appropriate. If your partner isn't looking up gay male sex, that's likely a result of his heterosexuality, not a result of his hatred of women. If you google up "pegging" (NSFW) you will also see that many straight men also enjoy receiving anal sex from their female partners. And many women ALSO enjoy delivering this experience to their male or female partners (via a device) despite not receiving physical pleasure themselves from it. Moreover, the comment about it being not a sexual organ... seems ... look - it's not a procreative organ, but it is an intimate part of your body, and it experiences sensation. Similarly hands, feet, lips, legs, skin - are not necessarily sexual organs - but surely all of them certainly can fit within a sexual intimate context. How do you know it wasn't her requesting that experience? I've had more than one girlfriend or prospective girlfriend explain to me plainly that they enjoyed and wanted anal sex and that it was an important part of their sex lives. Many people enjoy pain within a safe or controlled context in their sex lives (whether anal or through some other method), as a way of feeling "not in control" for a while - they want to feel "not in charge" or "taken" by someone else. Many people need this or some other form of intensity, in fact, as the only way they can get out of their heads enough to experience pleasure. By "gender ideology" I mean misandry - or "hatred of men", located within a wider political context that sees women as victims and men as brutes. Your framing of anal sex in this circumstance as something that's done with intention to harm women- who are passive receptacles with no agency of their own - and no awareness of its presence in the context of gay male behavior or in straight men and women - suggests to me that you have an ungenerous view of male sexuality that you are attaching to your husband. I don't know how old you are or where you are from, but while anal sex might be often viewed as a "once in a while" variety thing, it's not really generally considered an exotic perversion anymore by Western standards. Regardless, you are entitled to your experience and preferences. He to his, as well. What I'm seeing here as I pull this thread, is that you are treating pretty normal sexual act between adults with disgust. You are transferring that disgust to your husband for merely looking at or fantasizing about it - when apparently he is not even approaching you for it (nor would he if he anticipates this precise reaction). And, most importantly - more than a difference in sexual curiosities - you are also making a moral judgment, implying that he and anyone wanting or participating in anal sex is enacting some need to harm women in general, or misogyny. That's a pretty big leap and a devastating payload to deliver on someone. It's steeped in contempt. With that in mind, I would think it unsurprising that a loss of physical intimacy would be a downstream result from such an ungenerous characterization. To be clear - it's not the difference in preference of activity or sexual curiosity that I'd be most concerned about - it's the environment of moral characterization and contempt that's likely to have a chilling effect. Hello Apocrypha, Well, oddly enough, my one and only attempt at it was with my H. when we first got together. We had only been seeing each other for about a month (so sex levels were still pretty high!) but I had to have a medical procedure (for the removal of dodgy cells on the cervix that *may* one day turn cancerous if they're not got rid of...) which meant NO PiV sex for 4 weeks whilst healing. 4 weeks, when you're just getting together sexually, is a bloody long time! So I tried a different route. It didn't work :-( If I was ever going to like it, I would have thought that during the highly-sexed beginning of a relationship would be the time I'd enjoy it and 'get used' to it? ---- And there's something I've noticed about *myself* (it may apply to other people, but being somewhat repressed, I've never asked anybody...) : at the beginning of relationships I seem much more open to experiment and sexual honesty, than I am when I'm settled down with a partner. Instead of feeling *more* comfortable and more able to trust them, I find myself closing in and being more repressive about unfamiliar stuff. Yeah, I know I've got problems I'm just not quite sure what they are! ----- Your comment about the lack of sex possibly as a 'downstream result' of my disgust at his porn choice.... well the first time he ever knew I felt that way was when I emailed him the copy of my first post on here about 2 months ago. The first cessation of our sex life was 20 years ago, and the 2nd 6 years ago. (which does show a huge absence of communication over the years, I'll admit!) But when it comes to age and what's now seen as normal etc, you've definitely got a point. I'm nearly 54 and certainly didn't live as a nun before I married ; left home at 18, married at 27. I had plenty of partners and experience before meeting my H. (2 long term 'living with' relationships, several 'dating' relationships, and even a few one-night-stands. But *none* of those partners ever asked for anal, and it never occurred to me that anal could be a 'normal thing'. It's possible that the subsequent introduction of the internet (after I had already been married for a few years) has now made it normal. ? Handy : your comment about 'gut bacteria' struck a chord with me. Sticking a penis into a possible pile of poo never seemed very sexy to me.... ?
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Post by Handy on Jan 23, 2021 12:07:06 GMT -5
Gladifoundthisforum It's possible that the subsequent introduction of the internet (after I had already been married for a few years) has now made it normal. ?
I think the Internet made several things less abnormal, even prostate massage to a degree, for some people.
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