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Post by jerri on Oct 15, 2020 13:33:29 GMT -5
I do support affairs, especially since they were less than honest about not getting sex. The list goes on about all the subjects that they are not honest about when they don't want sex. I just believe that once someone makes the decision to lie, keep on doing it because the affair is something they should take to their grave.
In hindsight my H wanted to know that I was getting sex elsewhere, he just didn't want any information after that. It was hard at first. I wanted intimacy and he was so upset that he could not give me anything but hurt expressed through anger. He taught me little by little that he wanted no news.
The difference is when one is in a normal R both want sex. But in a sexless marrige we are giving nothing away that they want anyway. They had a choice to give us sex, but at the same time they wish to take our choice away to have attention, intimacy and sex. Then we are not supposed to take away thier choice to have sex elsewhere or leave? (Which supposedly we are taking away since we are not telling them that we are having sex elsewhere) But they can cheat us out of affection and fun filled sex? That's why I believe in so called "cheating" and I have only known one therapist to see it that way. Other therapists say it is too messy. Well of course it is,the marrige is torn little by little after that unless we stop it! And it's really hard to be kind when they are being really nasty!
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Post by TMD on Oct 16, 2020 10:05:18 GMT -5
Isn’t it societal norms, jerri, that have told us we are supposed to get married and remain monogamous forever more (or, rather, sexless?). If we* weren’t so narrow minded, perhaps we wouldn’t find ourselves navigating dead bedrooms. And having to justify cheating/affairs. I really never felt like I should have to explain it. In fact, when I consider a relationship post-marriage, I am not comfortable with a conventional bound-forevermore to one person IF that means my partner is incapable of thinking outside the box. *the general we |
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Post by shamwow on Oct 21, 2020 3:30:44 GMT -5
Honesty with our spouses. What a concept. Honesty with ourselves. An even more amazing concept! 😏🤦♀️ I wasn't truly honest with my ex until the day I told her I was done. |
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Post by shamwow on Oct 21, 2020 3:35:22 GMT -5
LOL. You made me laugh out loud while sitting at the ortho with youngest. Yeah. I grew up in a VERY conservative household. I had to be a certain way. I’ve been living my life for others for so long; so much unlearning to do. I didn’t learn (am still learning?) how to honour who I am and be clear (honest) with others about my boundaries. There is nothing wrong with living your life for others so long as you still have a core of "you" in there. I sacrifice for my family today just as I did when I was in my SM. The difference today, however, is that it is no longer a one way street. Please note: It took a long time, a lot of changes, and, yes, more sacrifices to reach this happier place. |
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Post by TMD on Oct 21, 2020 21:30:56 GMT -5
shamwow - today I was thinking about boundaries. I called off my affair. We hadn’t spoken since that convo. He texted on Sunday with a question. One he won’t reveal until we talk. He said it has something to do with the, “mood,” of that day. I’m getting to my point... I am reluctantly willing to have the conversation, whatever it is about. Reluctant is the key. I’m not really willing. I feel like it’s only fair, if he has a question. But it won’t change anything. So I don’t see the point. Hence reluctant. And here is where boundaries come in. Suddenly they feel present, strong. I will listen. I may not even have an answer for him. And I’m okay with that. I don’t actually owe him anything. I won’t stretch myself to accommodate his need for clarification if I don’t have it. Once upon a time I would have attempted to make the other person feel comfortable, ease their concerns. But I’m not responsible for his stuff. He is. So boundaries are clearer to me. I’m good with giving to my kids. That is a non-issue. It’s my role. I’m happy to do so. No obligation. Will they get a positive response to every request or need? Lol. No. But I’ll be here to show them how to forge ahead with a life that deserves to be lived. Uh. I’m tired. I think I might have a cold. Damn Covid. Causes so much uncertainty. I am rambling.
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timedelay
Full Member
Posts: 153
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by timedelay on Oct 23, 2020 8:03:31 GMT -5
Isn’t it societal norms, jerri , that have told us we are supposed to get married and remain monogamous forever more (or, rather, sexless?). If we* weren’t so narrow minded, perhaps we wouldn’t find ourselves navigating dead bedrooms. And having to justify cheating/affairs. I really never felt like I should have to explain it. In fact, when I consider a relationship post-marriage, I am not comfortable with a conventional bound-forevermore to one person IF that means my partner is incapable of thinking outside the box. *the general we I agree with you tmd so much of our lives (and happiness) get sacrificed under pressures to conform. When I was growing up it was unthinkable there might be an alternative to what now gets called the 'relationship escalator'. I do mean literally unthinkable because when we aren't given words for a concept it's not possible to think it. It was only by seeking out solutions online that I came across all these novel ways to live; I try not to regret how long it took me.
For now, my H and I are in agreement to continue living together but the plan is to ultimately have separate living spaces where we can have privacy and do our own thing; have whoever we want come to visit/sleepover. Part of me wonders if we could have avoided years of unhappiness by setting up our living arrangements like that from the start. Regardless of whether my H and I end up divorcing officially there is no appeal for me in getting married again or living with a partner full time again. I think lovers living next door to each other might be my ideal :-)
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Post by jim44444 on Oct 28, 2020 5:36:09 GMT -5
.... But I’m not responsible for his stuff. He is. That may be the first law of happiness. We never have control over other their stuff. Taking responsibility for something we have no control over is an surefire path to frustration and misery. The corollary to this is I must own and embrace my stuff. No one else can be responsible for my stuff. |
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Post by TMD on Nov 15, 2020 13:41:35 GMT -5
timedelay, I love the idea of lovers living next door to one another. Space, solitude is as important to me as connection is.
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Post by TMD on Nov 15, 2020 13:56:20 GMT -5
timedelay, I love the idea of lovers living next door to one another. Space, solitude is as important to me as connection is. Speaking of which, I am craving connection. I am very uncomfortable this weekend. And, yet, I am steadfast in that I want to stay in this discomfort. I need to face it. Despite the fact that it feels like a mounting anxiety episode. I did speak with my former affair partner a few days ago. We connected by phone so he could ask his question. He was concerned that he did something specific to make me end things. No. He didn’t. And I think he understands. Here’s what happened on my end, however: I was so happy to hear his voice. I didn’t expect that feeling. I was calm and listened; I responded with careful consideration. And we had a good chat. I do miss him. But I am not willing to reveal that to him. At the end of convo, he asked if the door might be open at all. Quick sidebar: he had mentioned that I was cold towards the end of our in-person break up. I told him it was because I was afraid if I gave an inch, he’d want a mile (this is me in my all or nothing thinking trying to set boundaries). Back to the figurative door. We laughed. I said it’s the same as the inch. And how much exactly did he want? An inch? A mile? We laughed again. And the call ended. And I felt sad. And then I dreampt about him. And woke with unease. I texted a simple, “hello,” last night; a so-called moment of weakness. He was busy and responded after I was asleep. I responded this AM with an pathetic attempt to explain myself and also add that the door closed again. He was more than understanding. And so I sit with my discomfort in an effort to move the dial. See jim44444? I’m trying to take responsibility for my stuff. On that note, our teen kicked us out of house last weekend to have a few friends over (with grotesquely mounting Covid #s, that’s it for having ppl over for a while). I had dinner out with the person I am married to. We even talked about not staying married and being very decent coparents. I’ll chalk that up to some sort of progress. |
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Post by jerri on Nov 15, 2020 15:10:58 GMT -5
Aww, that was a sad read.
I hope you are not feeling guilt. In all the materials stepping out for sex is to be expected. Don't beat self up.
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Post by TMD on Nov 15, 2020 21:11:59 GMT -5
Aww, that was a sad read. I hope you are not feeling guilt. In all the materials stepping out for sex is to be expected. Don't beat self up. Definitely not feeling guilty. Conflicted? Lonely? Missing sex? All of the above. Not to mention the curveballs that come with Covid. It goes without saying that it’s tiresome. Sort of like everyday is ground hog day? I feel like a hamster on a wheel. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 16, 2020 7:13:49 GMT -5
timedelay , I love the idea of lovers living next door to one another. Space, solitude is as important to me as connection is. Speaking of which, I am craving connection. I am very uncomfortable this weekend. And, yet, I am steadfast in that I want to stay in this discomfort. I need to face it. Despite the fact that it feels like a mounting anxiety episode. I did speak with my former affair partner a few days ago. We connected by phone so he could ask his question. He was concerned that he did something specific to make me end things. No. He didn’t. And I think he understands. Here’s what happened on my end, however: I was so happy to hear his voice. I didn’t expect that feeling. I was calm and listened; I responded with careful consideration. And we had a good chat. I do miss him. But I am not willing to reveal that to him. At the end of convo, he asked if the door might be open at all. Quick sidebar: he had mentioned that I was cold towards the end of our in-person break up. I told him it was because I was afraid if I gave an inch, he’d want a mile (this is me in my all or nothing thinking trying to set boundaries). Back to the figurative door. We laughed. I said it’s the same as the inch. And how much exactly did he want? An inch? A mile? We laughed again. And the call ended. And I felt sad. And then I dreampt about him. And woke with unease. I texted a simple, “hello,” last night; a so-called moment of weakness. He was busy and responded after I was asleep. I responded this AM with an pathetic attempt to explain myself and also add that the door closed again. He was more than understanding. And so I sit with my discomfort in an effort to move the dial. See jim44444 ? I’m trying to take responsibility for my stuff. On that note, our teen kicked us out of house last weekend to have a few friends over (with grotesquely mounting Covid #s, that’s it for having ppl over for a while). I had dinner out with the person I am married to. We even talked about not staying married and being very decent coparents. I’ll chalk that up to some sort of progress. The conservative upbringing that had you thinking sexual desire was wrong is also telling you that you mustn't have an outside sex partner and you must divorce to be acceptable to others. You trust the people who misled you more than your gut. Your gut could be wrong too, but the track record of the people you're trying to please ain't great. If you divorced, would you see your affair partner again? Is frowning society your motive for keeping your distance? Is it preservation of your appearance as the faithful wife? (for society's sake? For your husband? Kids? Your own self-confidence when the facade is intact?) Have you considered the value and impact society's expectations have had on you and have you internalized them by choice? Or has it been society's expectation for you to conform that leads you to make decisions, moreso than a deliberate plan of what works best for your specific situation? I have read about people that truly need to have physical intimacy with a spouse. It must be an all-in-one package. You may well be in that category. I'm just asking so you ask yourself. Do you feel that way, or do others think that; and only for that reason you think you should too? |
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DrNo
Junior Member
Posts: 52 
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by DrNo on Nov 19, 2020 18:17:33 GMT -5
Aww, that was a sad read. I hope you are not feeling guilt. In all the materials stepping out for sex is to be expected. Don't beat self up. Definitely not feeling guilty. Conflicted? Lonely? Missing sex? All of the above. Not to mention the curveballs that come with Covid. It goes without saying that it’s tiresome. Sort of like everyday is ground hog day? I feel like a hamster on a wheel. You and me both! Hamster & Wheel. I live a strange ish lady. Tells me I ignore her and yet she’s married to her work and flops into bed and goes off to sleep. ive tried everything, she wants for nothing, and I expect that the issue, life has allowed her to work work work. but when she wants something on the sexy front she’s all over me like a cheap suit. its just a boring cycle now. And of course Covid is not helping anybody at all. anyway keep your chin up. |
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DrNo
Junior Member
Posts: 52
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by DrNo on Nov 19, 2020 18:18:04 GMT -5
I live “with” ....
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Post by TMD on Nov 25, 2020 21:47:05 GMT -5
The conservative upbringing that had you thinking sexual desire was wrong is also telling you that you mustn't have an outside sex partner and you must divorce to be acceptable to others. You trust the people who misled you more than your gut. Your gut could be wrong too, but the track record of the people you're trying to please ain't great. If you divorced, would you see your affair partner again? Is frowning society your motive for keeping your distance? Is it preservation of your appearance as the faithful wife? (for society's sake? For your husband? Kids? Your own self-confidence when the facade is intact?) Have you considered the value and impact society's expectations have had on you and have you internalized them by choice? Or has it been society's expectation for you to conform that leads you to make decisions, moreso than a deliberate plan of what works best for your specific situation? I have read people that truly need to have physical intimacy with a spouse. It must be an all-in-one package. You may well be in that category. Just asking so you ask yourself. Do you feel that way, or do others think that-and only for that reason you think you should too? K. There’s a lot to unpack here, not in a labourious way. I’m on my smartphone and it’s hard to see full screen. Bear with me. I may have not made it clear: without question, I reject my conservative upbringing. Inasmuch as it relates to divorce and the judgment of an AP. My parents divorced when I was 11. It was, no question, the right thing to do. I think I grew up with a sort of moral superiority, or stubbornness. I wanted to avoid divorce. However, I’m okay with it now. I have no desire to save this marriage. It’s finances that are stalling things right now. If divorced, would I see AP again? Yes. I think so. TBH, he offered himself as a booty call, so to speak. I am so very tempted. But I need to have boundaries with him. He is terribly convincing. I don’t know that I can immerse myself in him at this time. I am convicted in that I want to work on myself (and a move towards separation) right now. Nope, not worried about societal judgments. My mom? Hell yes. My kids? Definitely. But every body else can go suck lemons. ;-) I’m not preserving appearances. Most people who know us know that our marriage is broken. I tend to be quite open. I trying to be deliberate in moving forward. I am also trying to do this with compassion for myself and the people in my house. *** Having had incredible intimacy — that wasn’t solely sexual in nature — with my AP I believe most people can have it. Actually, I don’t think I knew what intimacy was until I experienced it with AP. And why wouldn’t we want intimacy? Isn’t intimacy the reason we are all here? Intimacy isn’t just sex. Maybe it’s the core of mutual respect and attraction? ^^ I starred this section because I think it’s a good discussion, should anybody else wish to weigh in. There might be associated questions: - what constitutes intimacy? - how do you know when you have it? *** I appreciate your questions, mirrororchid. |
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And according to the flood warning map you're in the red zone...