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Post by Handy on Oct 6, 2019 20:29:29 GMT -5
Greatcoastal ........They liked porn better)
:eyeroll: Unbeliveable What is wrong with some men?
I am sorry she had to endure that all over again.
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Post by Handy on Oct 6, 2019 20:47:37 GMT -5
Baza There wasn't a one who said - "I got out and now wish to hell I hadn't".
Bballgirl went back to her H and it sounds like she got to keep her lover too. She was divorced for 2 yrs but wanted to eventually be with her XH. She wasn't sorry she left her XH and got the divorce.
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Post by csl on Oct 8, 2019 11:02:52 GMT -5
csl , your stat is also interesting. But do you really mean no-fault? I figured it was a thing of the past that any blame had to be assigned to get a divorce. Perhaps, do you mean no-alimony (like Texas) or equal-parenting? It would be interesting (and a sad statement) if alimony alone was the major factor; one would expect the kids and custody to play a significant factor. You might be right about that. As I said, I read this several years ago, and the pith of what I remember is that where men felt that they could get a fair shake in the courts, the filings for divorce were more evenly divided. As to the reason, I am wracking my memory to remember where I read it, but I can't recall it.
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Post by shamwow on Oct 15, 2019 20:59:40 GMT -5
The ILIASM stats say that of the people who do leave, women outnumber men by something like 4 or 5 to 1. For every shamwow , there'll be a choosinghappy elynne @elle nyartgal WindSister . "Why" that is I don't know, but I suspect that men will (generally) not leave a marriage because it's an emotional vacuum, but women will. These stats don't surprise me. In traditional relationships the man pursues and the woman is pursued. In an ILIASM marriage, if the man is not pursuing, the woman KNOWS something is wrong. Women tend to be better at picking up those particular signals, too. In general if a woman isn't being pursued and wants to be, all she has to do is signal her availability (and perhaps lower her standards). For men the situation is somewhat different. We continue to pursue, not even recognizing the effort is in vain. If a guy stops pursuing, he leaves and just starts up the same vicious cycle with someone new. Add onto that permanent alimony and family courts stacked in mom's favor in regard to the kids, and it isn't much surprise that a guy will stick around way past a maritial experation date.
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Post by shamwow on Oct 15, 2019 21:04:57 GMT -5
elynne, following your stats, it seems that perhaps men are swayed to stay because of the financials, and women are swayed to leave in spite of the financials? I imagine both are at play, and a small-ish swing on both sides would add up to a large gap. Certainly, in the picture you paint the woman might think “What do I have to lose by leaving? I’m practically flying solo already!” and the guy might think “Why rock the boat?” csl, your stat is also interesting. But do you really mean no-fault? I figured it was a thing of the past that any blame had to be assigned to get a divorce. Perhaps, do you mean no-alimony (like Texas) or equal-parenting? It would be interesting (and a sad statement) if alimony alone was the major factor; one would expect the kids and custody to play a significant factor. In Texas there is no alimony but child custody is skewed towards the mother. Both were factors for me, but in the end I would have left anyway. And as it has turned out my son has chosen an equal split of time once he was given a say.
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Post by shamwow on Oct 15, 2019 21:10:40 GMT -5
The ILIASM stats say that of the people who do leave, women outnumber men by something like 4 or 5 to 1. For every shamwow , there'll be a choosinghappy elynne @elle nyartgal WindSister . "Why" that is I don't know, but I suspect that men will (generally) not leave a marriage because it's an emotional vacuum, but women will. I saw statistics related to women and divorce. Interestingly for unmarried couples women and men initiated a split pretty evenly. For some reason there is a significant gender difference between women and men in initiating divorce. Despite the fact that women are harder hit financially than men by divorce, they still initiate the majority of divorces. Link to the article I referenced: www.google.nl/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/women-more-likely-than-men-to-initiate-divorces-but-not-breakups-study-finds_n_55d61f03e4b0ab468da049bb/ampI can’t speak for all women, but in my personal experience, I found my husband and his family to have strong gender expectations. My mother-in-law berated me for having a good income. She then said that she had hoped her son would marry someone who was a good cook and housekeeper. My ex has said many times that one should never hire a woman doctor for a medical practice. He looked down on nurses. After 2 years hadn’t bothered to learn the names of the secretaries and support staff in his practice. Personally I found marriage stifling. My ex had complete freedom to travel anywhere at any time on a whim. “I want to go to a conference in Barcelona next week.” Ok. “I’m going to go to Switzerland to ski and give a talk.” Ok. But it never worked the other way around. My new partner is an incredible man. Wise, patient, kind. He values and respects my opinion. He treats me like an equal. I have never been loved so unconditionally, exactly as I am. I could never have imagined that a relationship could be so supportive, so inspiring, so happy. But I will never marry again. I don’t trust that I am strong enough to not bend under the social expectations around marriage. These expectations permeate our culture; in films, TV, literature, commercials, advertising. The expectations seep into our subconscious. I’m just as guilty of going along with the ridiculous habit of my ex-husband making all decisions and I could agree or protest but it would have no impact on the decision. I would much rather not be married to the love of my life and choose daily to be with him. To make a conscious decision for remaining in the relationship. To treat him in all interactions with love and respect and kindness. And quite happily he feels the same way. We’ve both had unhappy or unfulfilling marriages. Neither of us is willing to do anything to put our happiness at risk, and a legal marriage seems too big of a risk to take. Kind of funny but mine was the opposite. I worked 2-4 jobs and my ex would take the kids to Disney, Bahamas, New York, etc and I'd be left home to work and pay for it. Now my head is out of that fog and I'm wondering what voodoo that woman had over me!
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Post by elynne on Oct 16, 2019 2:18:35 GMT -5
I saw statistics related to women and divorce. Interestingly for unmarried couples women and men initiated a split pretty evenly. For some reason there is a significant gender difference between women and men in initiating divorce. Despite the fact that women are harder hit financially than men by divorce, they still initiate the majority of divorces. Link to the article I referenced: www.google.nl/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/women-more-likely-than-men-to-initiate-divorces-but-not-breakups-study-finds_n_55d61f03e4b0ab468da049bb/ampI can’t speak for all women, but in my personal experience, I found my husband and his family to have strong gender expectations. My mother-in-law berated me for having a good income. She then said that she had hoped her son would marry someone who was a good cook and housekeeper. My ex has said many times that one should never hire a woman doctor for a medical practice. He looked down on nurses. After 2 years hadn’t bothered to learn the names of the secretaries and support staff in his practice. Personally I found marriage stifling. My ex had complete freedom to travel anywhere at any time on a whim. “I want to go to a conference in Barcelona next week.” Ok. “I’m going to go to Switzerland to ski and give a talk.” Ok. But it never worked the other way around. My new partner is an incredible man. Wise, patient, kind. He values and respects my opinion. He treats me like an equal. I have never been loved so unconditionally, exactly as I am. I could never have imagined that a relationship could be so supportive, so inspiring, so happy. But I will never marry again. I don’t trust that I am strong enough to not bend under the social expectations around marriage. These expectations permeate our culture; in films, TV, literature, commercials, advertising. The expectations seep into our subconscious. I’m just as guilty of going along with the ridiculous habit of my ex-husband making all decisions and I could agree or protest but it would have no impact on the decision. I would much rather not be married to the love of my life and choose daily to be with him. To make a conscious decision for remaining in the relationship. To treat him in all interactions with love and respect and kindness. And quite happily he feels the same way. We’ve both had unhappy or unfulfilling marriages. Neither of us is willing to do anything to put our happiness at risk, and a legal marriage seems too big of a risk to take. Kind of funny but mine was the opposite. I worked 2-4 jobs and my ex would take the kids to Disney, Bahamas, New York, etc and I'd be left home to work and pay for it. Now my head is out of that fog and I'm wondering what voodoo that woman had over me! I think when we boil it down, we just want to be loved. The problem arises when someone that has promised to love and cherish us withholds love and affection in order to make us jump through hoops trying to earn the love we so desperately want. The trouble is that the bar gets higher, the hoop moves, the targets shift and no matter what you do, you don’t please your partner. Here’s the kicker! They don’t actually want to be pleased. Their goal is not to be happy. Their end goal is to train you to ask “How high?” when they say jump. That was a very difficult lesson to learn because it’s so different from the way I view the world.
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Post by Handy on Oct 16, 2019 13:54:36 GMT -5
Their goal is not to be happy. Their end goal is to train you to ask “How high?” when they say jump. In my case, some of my relatives are just negative people and they mostly see the down side of so many things. I quit trying to convince a few people there could be a different outcome, than they mostly support and promote. They are not happy and think that is the way life is.
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Post by saarinista on Oct 16, 2019 19:25:46 GMT -5
Their goal is not to be happy. Their end goal is to train you to ask “How high?” when they say jump. In my case, some of my relatives are just negative people and they mostly see the down side of so many things. I quit trying to convince a few people there could be a different outcome, than they mostly support and promote. They are not happy and think that is the way life is. Try not to get sucked into the realm of those negative people, handy. I know that's easier said than done, but we pleasers tend to keep trying to please to our own detriment. With some people there is no pleasing them. And they will never do anything to return our favors. Not that there's no point to being selfless now and then, but when it's all one-sided, that's not a good relationship in my opinion.
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Post by Handy on Oct 16, 2019 21:16:07 GMT -5
saarinista Try not to get sucked into the realm of those negative people, I quit trying to get the negative person people to change their mind. I don't even offer alternative outcomes very often. I decided to just burp silently and say "is that so?" I want to say more but I know it would be a wast of time. For an outsider it might look as if I am ignoring someone but why get in mud and wrestle in a no winner situation. I hope the silent burp (acting on my part) conveys a message that I have a different opinion than the negative person has. I know with some people I have to be more concerned with my welfare and opinions. I go with is fair and best for me.
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Post by saarinista on Oct 16, 2019 22:03:30 GMT -5
I may regret asking, Handy but.. what is a silent burp? 🤔😐
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Post by Handy on Oct 16, 2019 22:44:26 GMT -5
A silent burp is a fake burp. It is sort of in the line of an eye roll but much less visible and much less controversial. It is a way to disagree with a person but not say anything. It is more along the lines of I don't agree with you or I cant swallow what you are saying without getting into a debate. It might be close to saying "OH, really" all the while the other person knows you are not agreeing to what they think or say. Is it passive aggressive or a way to let the other person you are not buying their ideas? That is for you to decide.
I know I will never get the other person to understand my point of view so why invest the time trying. Do something to indicate you don't agree and move on. It isn't all that much different than people quitting seeking sex or companionship from a refusing spouse. Signale the discussion is over for you and just move on and find something else that is more interesting.
This isn't the first thing I would do but a signal to indicate that I am done with a particular topic at a given time when progress will not likely be made..
I suppose scratching your head and then remain silent or indicate you have something else to attend to would be another way to end an unproductive conversation.
On another forum many years ago we discussed ways to end unproductive discussions that went in circles. Some other suggestions were to say "OH, really" "that is interesting" "you think so" "that dog won't bark" and a list of other sayings as your default way to end things and after you do whatever often enough, the problem person will know you are finished talking about a topic if you say the same thing often enough. This amounts to you showing you are done and the end has come for now.
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Post by h on Oct 22, 2019 16:17:43 GMT -5
csl , your stat is also interesting. But do you really mean no-fault? I figured it was a thing of the past that any blame had to be assigned to get a divorce. Perhaps, do you mean no-alimony (like Texas) or equal-parenting? It would be interesting (and a sad statement) if alimony alone was the major factor; one would expect the kids and custody to play a significant factor. You might be right about that. As I said, I read this several years ago, and the pith of what I remember is that where men felt that they could get a fair shake in the courts, the filings for divorce were more evenly divided. As to the reason, I am wracking my memory to remember where I read it, but I can't recall it. It makes perfect sense. I live in NY and the spousal support (alimony) formulas are near punitive for the higher earning spouse. Considering that this is statistically most often the man, men would be much more hesitant to file knowing they stand to lose from the start. Add onto this the new law that removes the income tax deduction for alimony payments and exempts alimony recipients from paying tax on that, and there is a strong disincentive to file for most men (or higher earning women). In addition, family courts in NY almost always award custody to mothers and force high child support sums even when custody is shared. A judge can even overrule an agreement reached between attorneys if they think that the custodial parent deserves more. The only time a father has a chance at primary custody is if the mother has a documented history of drug use, alcoholism, a criminal record, or some other verifiable defect that is recorded in an official form.
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Post by baza on Oct 22, 2019 17:17:23 GMT -5
What Brother h says concerning the jurisdiction of NY being punitive on blokes actually makes a compelling case for "why" women might be more likely to file for divorce than blokes ..... ..... if in NY divorce is such a sweet deal for women, then it makes sound logical and financial sense that women might be way more inclined to initiate a divorce. A bloke in such a jurisdiction may be hanging on to an ILIASM shithole like grim death to avoid a financial hit, and hoping their missus remains ignorant about this deal she would get. But that will count for jack shit if the woman chooses to divorce .... the husbands preference (to stay unhappily married to avoid a financial hit) would count for nothing. So as ever, seeing a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you, is the smart play. "You" might not want to get divorced (for all sorts of reasons). But if your missus does want to get divorced (because it will be a financial windfall for her) then what you'd like ceases to be relevant. Best any husband in such a jurisdiction be fully aware that, like it or not, divorce could well be in your future. Be prepared. (a) so you don't get blindsided (b) in the event that it gets bad enough for you to initiate.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 23, 2019 13:18:55 GMT -5
I think there's also another gender myth/truth (I don't know if it's a myth or truth!!) that may be affecting behaviour. Basically women are raised to believe that men 'always want it' and men are raised to believe that women 'say no a lot'. This wouldn't matter to the general population, but in terms of this group it might. So after realising it isn't them, women realise a bit quicker that there's something off about their male partner. They also believe that if they find another partner he's likely to want to have sex. Men, perhaps, less so. I needed to leave because there was much more obviously wrong with my marriage.
I actually do plan on getting married again. I adore my man and I want to be all in with him. We've been engaged for a while now. No super rush on getting married. We hedged the living together thing for a while, both of us having properties but have been officially living together since April/May. It's awesome.
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