|
Post by csl on Oct 4, 2019 22:00:11 GMT -5
The statistics do seem to bear out the idea that women initiate more of the divorces than men, but I do remember reading one article that said that in states that have neutral divorce laws, not favoring wives over men, that initiation is a 50-50 split. So maybe when men think that they will get even treatment in the courts, they are more willing to bail on a bad marriage. (Sorry, I can't remember where I read it, but I don't think that that is something that I would have made up.)
|
|
|
Post by baza on Oct 4, 2019 22:17:33 GMT -5
The statistics do seem to bear out the idea that women initiate more of the divorces than men, but I do remember reading one article that said that in states that have neutral divorce laws, not favoring wives over men, that initiation is a 50-50 split. So maybe when men think that they will get even treatment in the courts, they are more willing to bail on a bad marriage. (Sorry, I can't remember where I read it, but I don't think that that is something that I would have made up.) My jurisdiction is a no fault situation - and has been since the Australian Family Court started in 1975 Last stats I saw on the gender ratio of filers was in 2017 and the women were the initiators of divorce at a rate of about 4 to 1. A quick google search took me to Wikepedia and I quote from that site - relevant to the USA - "According to a study published in the American Law and Economics Review, women file slightly more than two-thirds of divorce cases in the US. There is some variation among states, and the numbers have also varied over time, with about 60% of filings by women in most of the 20th century, and over 70% by women in some states just after no-fault divorce was introduced, according to the paper.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Oct 4, 2019 22:56:58 GMT -5
“Have you been on a dating site? I hear girls get lots of attention from men. Men do not get the same attention. Have you ever been to a bar? I’m sorry but I just don’t understand why you would ask that. Everyone knows that..”
Those things are true of young women. Because women outlive men and men typically date and marry women who are younger, as people age, men have the advantage when it comes to dating and mating. Men increasingly become hot commodities.
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Oct 4, 2019 23:15:57 GMT -5
elynne, following your stats, it seems that perhaps men are swayed to stay because of the financials, and women are swayed to leave in spite of the financials? I imagine both are at play, and a small-ish swing on both sides would add up to a large gap. Certainly, in the picture you paint the woman might think “What do I have to lose by leaving? I’m practically flying solo already!” and the guy might think “Why rock the boat?” csl, your stat is also interesting. But do you really mean no-fault? I figured it was a thing of the past that any blame had to be assigned to get a divorce. Perhaps, do you mean no-alimony (like Texas) or equal-parenting? It would be interesting (and a sad statement) if alimony alone was the major factor; one would expect the kids and custody to play a significant factor.
|
|
|
Post by Handy on Oct 4, 2019 23:20:37 GMT -5
Women seek closeness and vulnerability in marriage where, under the veil of marriage, it is safe to be real and raw with our chosen one, or soul mate. When she reaches out for that connected feeling and is met with the “wrong” response, she lays a brick down. Then one day, the wall is too high to penetrate it.
I think the above is fairly accurate. I also think that men concentrate on work, earning money to keep the household going and depend on the woman to keep the relationship and family going. Sometimes she feels like she is the only one doing most of the relationship and family maintenance.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Oct 4, 2019 23:26:17 GMT -5
“I think the above is fairly accurate. I also think that men concentrate on work, earning money to keep the household going and depend on the woman to keep the relationship and family going. Sometimes she feels like she is the only one doing most of the relationship and family maintenance.”
A lot of married women also work outside of the home. They may feel responsible for everything.
|
|
|
Post by sadkat on Oct 5, 2019 0:36:01 GMT -5
The ILIASM stats say that of the people who do leave, women outnumber men by something like 4 or 5 to 1. For every shamwow , there'll be a choosinghappy elynne @elle nyartgal WindSister . "Why" that is I don't know, but I suspect that men will (generally) not leave a marriage because it's an emotional vacuum, but women will. Wow! I didn’t realize the gap was that large! It’s kind of sobering, in my opinion! So baza- of the women who left, how many earned an income as opposed to being stay at home moms?
|
|
|
Post by sadkat on Oct 5, 2019 0:43:06 GMT -5
As a male (not divorced, yet), I think part of the reason for the gender difference is the male fear of failure. It is hard to admit to such a huge failure in my life. It doesn't help that I feel as though it has to be entirely my fault. I also think that some of the the perceived gender imbalance is due to the tendency for women to express themselves better and are more likely to post their experiences on here vs guys like me who fear saying anything from shame or lack of expressiveness. I already fear getting in trouble for what I said above. This is very insightful tyler74. I hope you’ll consider contributing more. I believe you might have a lot to offer. Fear has no place here. Please speak freely.
|
|
|
Post by sadkat on Oct 5, 2019 0:49:22 GMT -5
Sure I have noticed this and wondered what is behind it. Men are framed as strong and resolute in society, and sure they might be in some contexts but in terms of escaping the misery of a SM perhaps less so. Why is this? I would love to know the thoughts of men who chose to leave (eventually) and also those who feel that they cannot. I am guessing children are likely involved but lots of the women here are parents too, so I am wondering if the best interests of the kids are a reason guys tell themselves whilst not being quite all that is involved? For me? When I finally accepted my deal was deceased with no possibility of improvement I had to go forward as I simply could not tolerate any more misery. Life is for living and I had wasted plenty of time already. In my case it’s because I’m scared of the unknown. Will I ever find someone after? I know it’s so much easier for girls to find someone. But for guys, or a least me, I’m not so sure. I think I’m attractive. I’ve been told I am, but that might be just out of pity. (OMG, I think my self esteem is gone.) michael- my therapist told me, statistically there are more single women than men and men usually find themselves in new relationships much more quickly than women. I’m going to put myself out on a limb here and speak for most women. We are not as visual as men. We care far more about how a man makes us feel than what he looks like.
|
|
|
Post by isthisit on Oct 5, 2019 1:15:01 GMT -5
In my case it’s because I’m scared of the unknown. Will I ever find someone after? I know it’s so much easier for girls to find someone. But for guys, or a least me, I’m not so sure. I think I’m attractive. I’ve been told I am, but that might be just out of pity. (OMG, I think my self esteem is gone.) michael - my therapist told me, statistically there are more single women than men and men usually find themselves in new relationships much more quickly than women. I’m going to put myself out on a limb here and speak for most women. We are not as visual as men. We care far more about how a man makes us feel than what he looks like. Right on the money here. Unless he is a gargoyle looks matter little to women in my experience. It’s who you are that counts.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Oct 5, 2019 1:27:00 GMT -5
The ILIASM stats say that of the people who do leave, women outnumber men by something like 4 or 5 to 1. For every shamwow , there'll be a choosinghappy elynne @elle nyartgal WindSister . "Why" that is I don't know, but I suspect that men will (generally) not leave a marriage because it's an emotional vacuum, but women will. Wow! I didn’t realize the gap was that large! It’s kind of sobering, in my opinion! So baza - of the women who left, how many earned an income as opposed to being stay at home moms? No idea in regard to that Sister sadkat .
|
|
|
Post by isthisit on Oct 5, 2019 1:28:16 GMT -5
michael thank you for your honesty. I too am mindful of the unknown and acknowledge that I may be alone now forever. However, I swapped a certainty of loneliness within my M for the possibility of loneliness outside of it. I am puzzled though why you think dating is easier for women? Have you been on a dating site? I hear girls get lots of attention from men. Men do not get the same attention. Have you ever been to a bar? I’m sorry but I just don’t understand why you would ask that. Everyone knows that. Have I ever been to a bar? Yes of course! Do I get attention? Yes at times. I imagine everyone does sometimes. Have I been on a dating site? Yes and no. No because I have not purposely set up a profile and joined the service. Yes because I was browsing the profile structure of a site putting in bland and random responses to see what was on the next page. I got to the end without paying a bean, attaching a photo or providing an email address but with my curiosity satisfied. Imagine my surprise when I was provided 100 men to ‘view’. Urgh ‘view’ it was like eBay for people. I was telling my friend about it and logged on to show her- hello there are now messages from nine men. Some were clearly dickheads but most seemed nice enough. I can’t see how men would have a different experience, but perhaps I am wrong about this.
|
|
|
Post by isthisit on Oct 5, 2019 1:34:44 GMT -5
Women seek closeness and vulnerability in marriage where, under the veil of marriage, it is safe to be real and raw with our chosen one, or soul mate. When she reaches out for that connected feeling and is met with the “wrong” response, she lays a brick down. Then one day, the wall is too high to penetrate it.I think the above is fairly accurate. I also think that men concentrate on work, earning money to keep the household going and depend on the woman to keep the relationship and family going. Sometimes she feels like she is the only one doing most of the relationship and family maintenance. Handy you are a real sweetie I know, but please check the calendar.... it’s not 1956. Today there are many women who earn as much if not more than their H, are chief cook and bottle washer at home, the primary parent and are thus mightily pissed off about it all. I could captain the team. I understand your POV is influenced by your generation, but here in Europe this is a historical perspective is it different in the US?
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Oct 5, 2019 9:02:55 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking about this over the past month or so. I’ve seen lots of discussion about why people choose to stay but not a lot about why people choose to leave. It seems to me that more women than men leave their sexless marriages. Do you agree? If so, why do you think that is? Perhaps baza can pull some statistics? 1) I'm just curious, is there any 'particular' (personal) reason why you are asking this? Are you looking for some kind of 'justification'? If so, please don't let that bother you for too long.. Feelings of regret, remorse, sorrow, confussion, guilt, etc...I've read, and personally gone through it, that it is all part of the healing process. 2) I do know much about statistics, (as others pointed out ) about the number of women that file vs men. 2 things about that, 1) our family court system is very broken, when it comes to fair justice, compared to other aspects of justice. However, the times they are a changin'. The wheels do turn slow, but they are turning. 2) Polls and statistics can be very skewed and can say whatever you want them too by who you poll and how you word the questions. 3) Freedom is not free. It comes with a price. Now that I am "free' that price continues. For me, one of the biggest 'prices' is having my children be manipulated into believing that their father ( stay at home dad/homeschooler for 20 yrs) is NOW, SOMEHOW a BAD person. This very painful parental alienation is worth going back to court for. My research continues to show me that the family court system will actually be more in my favor. That the judges in today's court system do not take kindly to this type of abuse and favoring fathers as much as 70% of all cases. 4) I also believe my now ex was waiting until our kids where older, for "the money'. Falsely believing that EVERYTHING belonged to her, and I would get nothing and be forced to pay her. She was in for a rude awakening.
|
|
|
Post by sadkat on Oct 5, 2019 9:18:36 GMT -5
greatcoastal- thank you for your perspective. As a man who found his way out, it’s an important one. To answer your question, I don’t believe I’m looking for justification for the actions I took but will agree that this was in no way easy for me. Although all signs pointed to “get out”, my emotional investment in my marriage was extremely difficult to reconcile. There was lots of second guessing there! I’m still working through all of this and I suppose my questions are a result of that.
|
|