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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 31, 2022 6:27:14 GMT -5
About used sex toys, I do not know any woman that would want to use the toys you used of some other woman, sanitized or not. Save all the packaging. Got it. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 31, 2022 6:27:26 GMT -5
greatcoastal, Rafaela may have been a good relationship for you since your married life was so horrendous, but Rafaela was a very fucked up person whose behavior was full of red flags. You might want to talk to a therapist about your experience with her so that your next relationship will be a step up (as your relationship with Rafaela was compared to your relationship with your wife). When one has been in a long-term relationship that is terrible, it can be very hard to know what a healthy relationship is like and what a healthy partner would act like. Healthy people just don't disappear and reappear in relationships nor do they get angry at you for doing what they asked you to do. Agreed, but is it out of line to suggest that accepting such people as our companion may be a good idea? If the world were full of single, fully functional human beings, would dating be so hard? Did they both benefit from this relationship? I can't tell. Could they have spent time on a better one? I suspect she could not. Even if she learned nothing, she had huge opportunities to do so. Did he? If nothing else, I bet he has a keener eye for peculiar behavior and a sharper focus on what is and is not a deal-breaker. We learn what we like through "failed" relationships and learn from our mistakes. He seems quite fond of her and he's got a good sense of the life satisfaction he wants to feel when he finds a "keeper". Minus his physical symptoms of anxiety, the breakup was pretty close to optimal. As good as they get. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 31, 2022 19:45:47 GMT -5
greatcoastal Okay. This woman sounds like she does have some issues, but I'm wondering if what she really wanted wasn't marriage and maybe that's why she left. One thing that jumped out at me was where you said "your family" won't even contact you which makes you not want to celebrate your birthday, regardlss of how much she does for you. If I was her I might feel very discounted if I got that Impressions from my boyfriend. Think about it- it's like you're implying that regardless of what she does, it doesn't make up for the fact that your kids aren't there. Especially if she IS wanting to be part of a new family, that might have made her feel that you were not ever going to commit to her and maybe that's why she left. Yes she should have told you that directly, but maybe she figured there was no point sharing that. I need to word the part about my birthday better. Here goes... The greatest most wonderful birthday present I could have asked for ( and received) was knowing that Rafaela was with me! Add to that , she wanted to be with me. Just her presence meant a lot to me. And the best of the best was having sex that night!!I could care less about receiving anything material, I received plenty of what I desired most of all,, being held, desired, touched, loved, liked, wanted!! Giving all that back to someone who wants it, likes it respects it, appreciates it!! That's the greatest gift of all, and my way of celebrating my birthday! I'm a guy, that's what I want! I'd rather be doing that than sitting at a crowded ,noisy restaurant! My birthday landed on a Thursday. We both worked that day, most of the day is gone by then. I have time to think while I'm working. Birthdays make me remember all that I did for 20 yrs for my family and their birthdays. ( and how difficult it was to buy anything for my ex. She never wanted any of the typical gifts you get a woman. The kids and I would always struggle to get her things) My son, my daughter, my MIL, all had BD's close to mine. It's a busy time of year! It is a painful time ( like most holidays when society forces me to reflect on the non-communication from my family ( I blame the non communication on the manipulation of my narc. ex)) I'm still healing from that. A big part of my healing is/was having someone in my life who was there for me. Also someone who I could ,occasionally, share my sorrow and frustrations with hoping they would understand. I also did my best to not just make it about me, but give Rafaela an open door to share any of her grievances with her family to me. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. ( I tried to be a good communicator, and a good listener) One part about grieving is being able to then say, "but things are better, I now have you, and we have each other!" I did my part to give her words of affirmation ( a love language) Thanking her for just being herself, thanking her for being with me, telling her that just her presence meant a lot to me. I cherished it. Side note : I would tell her most every night before falling asleep " thank you for being with me , I love having you with me, It really means a lot to me". Well....about a year ago, she said to me " you can stop saying that". I was surprised, and disappointed  . I even asked her " why, does it bother you? I say it because it's true, because I mean it." I stopped saying it and basically would just tell her " hope you sleep well, see you in the morning". Life's full of complications ain't it? Pleasure to hear from you again @ saarinista ! How are things with you, give me an update! |
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Post by baza on Feb 1, 2022 0:56:16 GMT -5
Would it be fair to say that your ILIASM deal was a pretty bad experience for the most part Brother greatcoastal ? And would it be fair to say that getting out of the ILIASM situation was a good choice ? And would it also be fair to say that the relationship with R was - for the most part - pretty good ? So would it be reasonable to think that the last 3 years was - on balance - a pretty good and worthwhile experience, even if it didn't end well ? From the outside looking in, it looks like the last few years of your ILIASM deal, and the 3 years of you and R was actually a very valuable experience. And it looks like you have taken some very valuable knowledge out of it that will stand you in good stead as your life enters the next phase, whatever that may be. You are probably "the best prepared for the future" member in this entire group. I think you can look forward to your future with great confidence. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 1, 2022 18:45:14 GMT -5
Rafaela doing so many things for you, that sounds like a giver that can not express what she needs. It is called "The Nice Person Syndrome." They give and give until they feel empty but they can rarely ask for anything or express their opinion. I admit to doing that several times in the past. This has a lot of truth to it!! I was guilty of the same thing in my first marriage. Family first and me last on the list. The sad (annoying) part is how many times I would point this out to her! ( during our 3 years together) I would tell her things like: "Ask and ye shall receive- see I asked and look what's happening! You need to do more of that. It's okay to ask!) "Did you say no this time? You did?" What happened? See!! "You stood up for yourself! Good!" "You need to start taking" "You need to allow me to do things for you" "Please sit back and let me do that for you! You're hurting me by not letting me do these things" "let me guess, you didn't say no, and you did it anyways? Rafaela : "Yea I did!" Me: " well then, you can't complain about it. after you say no, but do it anyways, your customers are going to expect it" Yeah-- we had this conversation, a lot. Can't help someone who won't help themselves, or see their true value. At most you can plant a seed and hope it grows. Thanks for taking the time to respond. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 3, 2022 14:53:07 GMT -5
Doing a little more journaling. Going on two weeks now, I'm sleeping better and getting adjusted to things being fully over. That I may never see or talk with her again.
Thinking about her one line " I'm not happy"
Speaking of "happy" we had this exchange on a Sunday evening. (Just a few days before her final bolting-no. 4) I was dressed and tired from splitting so much wood, and helping my neighbor move lumber. I climbed in the bed ,dressed and told her it's way too early to go to bed ,but I was cold and just wanted to rest my back. She laid beside me.
Me: " are you happy?"
Rafaela: "I bet your tired you did a lot of work"
Me: " are you happy"
Rafaela: ""did you help Paul move all that wood?"
Me: " are you happy?"
Rafaela: " that's nice of you to help him do that"
(notice a pattern here of avoidance?- red flag!)
Me: "I asked you the same question 3 times and you are not answering me."
Rafaela: yes I did.
Me: No you didn't. " are you happy, would you please answer that?"
Rafaela: I don't know.
Me: what do you mean , you don't know?
Then she gets angry, and tries to turn it on me and says Rafaela: "I don't know,I guess, I answered you. WTF wrong with you." ( notice the reversal - it's my fault-red flag!)
That's when I get up from the bed, take my computer and say, " I asked you 3 times a simple yes or no question, and you can't answer me"
Rafaela " I answered you"
Me : "no you didn't ,don't lie about it. What do I have to do record every conversation and play it back to you? You said, I don't know. That's not an answer. I'm going to go into the other room for a while."
Rafaela: don't go. Let's go for a walk.
We go for a walk, talk about little stuff. She acts happy, touching, kissing, (avoiding) leaving me thinking that she's happy and all is well.
Confusing isn't it! people and their emotions!
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 3, 2022 14:59:39 GMT -5
I was just going over in my head, all the things that I willingly gave/opened up/ shared with Rafaela, yet did not get back in return.
Let me explain, I think about how I showed her my house. Invited her to live with me and have all my things. I never went inside her apartment. My house is my colors, my furniture, my choice of bedspreads, towels, plates,etc.. It's part of me. The outside of my house is landscaped by me, more showing and sharing who I am. Much of it has a history behind it too. I shared all that with her. I didn't receive much back...part of that is her trouble communicating, and part of it is how she has gone from place to place and different relationships. (makes me wonder if I was trying to save someone,again)
I was constantly sharing, playing my favorite music to her. The most she ever told me was " I like country". I opened a whole world of songs, and videos that she had never heard or seen. Again I let her know " this is me".
I shared my old photos and all my paintings with her, my thoughts behind them, etc.. I've never seen any photos of hers.
I also realized that she took no pictures of me or us, during our 3 years together ( she may not know how to do it. She still uses a flip phone) but my phone is loaded with them! Do you not want to remember someone ? Good times and places together? wouldn't you want pictures of it? Wouldn't you want to share it with others? Oh.. that's right she had no friends!
I shared what places in nature I love, and how much I love the peace and solitude of the quite moonlit nights in my own yard,and the feeling of heaven on earth when I have a woman, face to face to hold and share it with. Sometimes she might tell me a restaurant she wants to go to. That's it.
I remember telling her " I love standing at the end of the driveway at night, holding you ,and looking up at the stars together"
My car is my choice, my taste, my ideas about how to spend money, my budget , my savings, long term planning, etc... She discloses very little about her finances. She has no car. Something about her daddy giving her a 'large amount' of money, before he passes away. ( her family still lives in Italy)
I could go on... but you get the idea.
I feel like, someday, I'm going to give all these things to another woman again.
Thanks for the ear!
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 3, 2022 17:23:45 GMT -5
greatcoastal: Rafaela was a big step up from your marriage. I hope your next relationship is another big step up.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Feb 4, 2022 4:40:59 GMT -5
I was just going over in my head, all the things that I willingly gave/opened up/ shared with Rafaela, yet did not get back in return. I remember telling her " I love standing at the end of the driveway at night, holding you ,and looking up at the stars together" My car is my choice, my taste, my ideas about how to spend money, my budget , my savings, long term planning, etc... She discloses very little about her finances. She has no car. Something about her daddy giving her a 'large amount' of money, before he passes away. ( her family still lives in Italy) I could go on... but you get the idea. I feel like, someday, I'm going to give all these things to another woman again. Thanks for the ear! I'm so sorry a relationship didn't work out it sure seemed like you were over the moon. I'm going to have to go back and read what happened. You might consider doing a little research I don't know how Italian she is and I don't know much about Italian culture but maybe there's something there that you can learn about her to give you insight about the relationship moving forward. I was talking to my sister denied telling her one of my little secrets and she was kind of looking at me with a blank face and I wasn't sure what to say and so I said, wow I guess it's like that scorpion story where I can't fight my nature. You're going to find that you can't fight your nature either and you're going to have to find some balance between your natural tendencies, your needs, and the type of relationship you want to have. This is no daunting task but have heart and keep your chin up. We are all rooting for you! |
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 4, 2022 7:00:50 GMT -5
"I asked you 3 times a simple yes or no question, and you can't answer me"
"...part of it is how she has gone from place to place and different relationships. (makes me wonder if I was trying to save someone, again)"
I shared what places in nature I love, and how much I love the peace and solitude of the quite moonlit nights in my own yard, and the feeling of heaven on earth when I have a woman, face to face to hold and share it with. Sometimes she might tell me a restaurant she wants to go to. That's it." Am I happy Biden got elected? Yes or no? Refusing to answer a question that requires nuance isn't always unreasonable, regardless of how much we'd like clarity. She's got a good man, but she wants him to propose because her life is on permanent hold until he does. An Italian woman doesn't propose. She waits. </stereotype> And when the waiting lasts longer than she likes, happiness is impossible, but leaving is not happier. Just mind reading here. Over the internet, from one side of a conversation. Claims of accuracy should be taken with an dome full of salt. She refused to communicate. To give an answer that'd cause a long argument that makes you both miserable and may break you up. Okay. Her fault. But you're gonna hit that wall a few more times with other wimmins before your longest nap.
'member my saying what a softie you were? Yeah, you were trying to save her. You said you treated her like your child sometimes. Classic white knight stuff. It's not all bad though. Knowing you're doing it at the time helps. Knowing when it's futile is good too. Being okay with it being futile is the trifecta. Belief in this life advice should only be attempted with help of skilled professionals.
The sharing everything and getting nothing. That may be a co-dependent thing on her part. Adopting the identity of those they love? Never giving offense by enjoying something their partner does not? Such difference would be seen as obstacles to stability? It'd fit with the people pleasing that ended up frustrating her. Suppressing yourself is hard work and the façade can crack sometimes. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 4, 2022 18:26:32 GMT -5
1)I'm so sorry a relationship didn't work out it sure seemed like you were over the moon. 2) I'm going to have to go back and read what happened. You might consider doing a little research I don't know how Italian she is and I don't know much about Italian culture but maybe there's something there that you can learn about her to give you insight about the relationship moving forward. 3) You're going to find that you can't fight your nature either and you're going to have to find some balance between your natural tendencies, your needs, and the type of relationship you want to have. 4) This is no daunting task but have heart and keep your chin up. We are all rooting for you! 1) Yeah,,, I believe you're right! Far more than I realized! What's that old saying " you don't know what you've got till it's gone". In my defense I believe I did try, on a daily bases to remind myself not to take her for granite. 2) Born in Naples Italy, raised on a vineyard/farm 5 other brothers and sisters. Her being the youngest. Moved to America when she was 19 yrs old. Wonderful Italian accent to her voice! 3) All those things where part of my three years 'learning experience' with her, and now more to come with someone else when that time comes. 4) No it won't be easy dating again with someone else. The first few months of dating someone again is a time of opening up, sharing yourself, and deciding if the two of us are a good fit. It was wonderful to have gone through that, feel good about it, and press on into the future, or so I thought.... Chin is coming up more....slowly. Thanks for the confidence boost! |
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Post by csl on Feb 5, 2022 8:57:35 GMT -5
1) Yeah,,, I believe you're right! Far more than I realized! What's that old saying " you don't know what you've got till it's gone". In my defense I believe I did try, on a daily bases to remind myself not to take her for granite. Joni Mitchell, "Big Yellow Taxi" - written about just such a situation |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 5, 2022 9:36:22 GMT -5
1) Yeah,,, I believe you're right! Far more than I realized! What's that old saying " you don't know what you've got till it's gone". In my defense I believe I did try, on a daily bases to remind myself not to take her for granite. Joni Mitchell, "Big Yellow Taxi" - written about just such a situation I remember that song! Actually , the song that came to mind was Mike and the Mechanics "All I Need is a Miracle". Then I read the lyrics, and quickly knew that song does not apply in my case!! |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 5, 2022 10:49:04 GMT -5
Well, crapity crap crap crap. I am sorry to hear about this misfortune, greatcoastal . Hang in there. I can't explain her malfunction, but, I'm pretty sure she pulls this skittish disappearing act on every boyfriend she's had, and will in the future, also. 1) I've gotten more closure since this occured. 2) No communication from her. Instead I go see our platonic friend (Jonathan the guard) and he has played the role of mediator between us. ( very weird, like a divorce again) 3) What do you call someone who dumps one person and immediately goes straight into another relationship? ( besides unhealthy? There's a psychological name for it?) Found it [ a serial monogamist or commitment phobia] 4) Quoting myself from a previous post : Jonathan then told me " you remember the pool guy she dated before you? I said " the one who drinks beer all the time plops on the couch, watches tv all night and won't have sex with her?" Jonathan :"yes ,him. She claims he called her this week that she stays in touch with him, and wants to remain friends with him."Me: "I doubt that he just happened to call her this week after 3 yrs. She's calling him, looking for another guy."Jonathan: " he only wants her for sex. A friend with benefits. She says she can't stand him that way and doesn't want to".Me: Oh well, she's got a lot to learn doesn't she!" This is who she'll be going back to and staying with. Rafaela told Jonathan " I'm going to take it slow". Poor pool boy! He's in for a mess! And what's he been doing for the last 3 yrs? Jonathan and I agreed " she's probably just using him because she needs a place to stay for the next month, and he'll use her for sex, what a mess!" (not my circus not my monkeys!)
He lives a good 10 miles away in another town across the bridge, ( or further) he'll be taking her to work and picking her up every day. That means my chances of running into her are slim that's a good thing. I would offer her rides to work on cold windy, rainy days, and she would refuse, said " I don't mind, I like being in the rain, it doesn't bother me" again- her trouble with taking when it's offered. I lived 2 miles from the houses she cleaned.
Side note: I asked jonathan " have you seen this guy? what's he look like? ( I still haven't fully processed why I need to know this?) Jonathan said " He's much shorter than you, he's got kinda long hair, and he's small and skinny".
5) Jonathan told me this Thurs. " Rafaela called me and asked for your number. Since she blocked you she didn't have it. She says she's gonna call you and wants to remain friends". Honestly...that messed me up! All of Thursday night and all day Fri. I thought it out, way to much! I thought I came up with the best way to handle it: Say nothing negative about her. No matter how wrong incorrect, divisive, etc... go along with it. Listen to her, let her tell her side , if she can. ( give her ugh, hugh, right, okay, answers) wish her the best, happiness for her future, etc... Tell her " call me if you need me for anything" because I suspect that I won't hear from her until she needs something. Ask her " what kind of friendship are you wanting from me?" Don't expect her to know how to put it into words, because what she wants is forgiveness. I can forgive those who " know not what they do" but I can not give her trust again. ( I would not say that to her though. She doesn't seem to care about that) 6) Jonathan notified me " Rafaela said " she decided not to call you, says you'll just be mad at her". I'm not mad. Hurt, sad, annoyed, confused, but most important I would not trust her anymore. She "shred her cred". To quote northstarmom " that's not healthy". 7) It's actually a relief to not have to answer that phone call! I'm thinking about ways that I can get out there again and start meeting new people, and do things alone again. I'm having lunch with two of my old male mentors, today and tomorrow, to go over things one last time. Here's to new beginnings! |
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 5, 2022 11:18:33 GMT -5
greatcoastal: " Jonathan told me this Thurs. " Rafaela called me and asked for your number. Since she blocked you she didn't have it. She says she's gonna call you and wants to remain friends"."
You would be wise to continue to not have contact with her. Look back at what you've written about her behavior. She was not as off the charts wacko as your ex, but Rafaela still had lots of problems that would continue to pop up, and probably worsen, if you continue any kind of relationship with her. You'd be wise to just move on while applying to your next relationship the lessons you've learned from being with Rafaela. This includes realizing it's a red flag if you feel you have to parent someone like you felt when telling Rafaela not to see one of her toxic friends. Someone with bad judgment about their friends isn't mature enough or in synch with your values enough for you to be in a healthy relationship with them.
Your plan of meeting new people sounds good. Make new friends and explore new activities that perhaps you haven't been able to try while married or while dating Rafaela. Take the time, however, to heal from and learn from your relationship with Rafaela before moving on to a new romance.
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. I even asked her " why, does it bother you? I say it because it's true, because I mean it." I stopped saying it and basically would just tell her " hope you sleep well, see you in the morning".
