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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 25, 2018 11:25:24 GMT -5
I met a woman on Tinder.We had 4 hrs of great conversation through back and forth texts (over 120 texts). It could not have gone any better!  We arranged a date the next day. Our time in person was wonderful along with more steady, open communication. Her stories where matched with my stories, her goals and aspirations were met with mine. We were both full of empathy and hope for one another, along with a promise of moving forward together. WE had age, location, ages of children, both divorced, both in a SM, same in physical sizes, etc...... She claimed that she was done with tinder and the way men had treated, her. I ,however showed interest in her as a person and sexually in a classy manor. Lucky me! We both agreed we would go out on another date in 2 more days. We would talk over the phone and make plans. Strike one) I did all the calling and texting, leaving multiple messages. 7 days went by and no response. I was making one last call as a "good faith effort" she answered! She told me that she had been so, so, busy with work and things, and that she hadn't checked any of her messages in a long time. She was at work when I called her and could I call her back the next day? I asked for a time? I was given a time range. Okay. My 100% trust factor dropped to a 70%. Strike 2) The time zone came and went. I left texts and phone messages. days passed and no response. My trust level is down to a 33%. Strike 3) I call on her day off at the time she tells me she is up and around. She answers the phone! She is sick and feeling awful! (I can hear it in her voice) I ask if there is anything I can do? I hope she recovers. She claims she made the mistake of going down to the beach the other day and now she is sick. She said " I will call you back later tonight, I am getting ready to head out the door, a friend is coming over to get me some medication, I'll be alright, I'll call and speak with you more later, so we can make plans." I asked for a time frame? She didn't know, but she would call me. Never happened. No texts either. We have had what is called "Red Tide" on our beaches for the last week. I can't even walk to my mailbox and back without smelling it and feeling it. If you have any allergies or asthma, well....forget it! your eyes burn, your throat closes up, itches, coughing, wheezing, etc.... It is something that happens here every few years. (thousands of dead fish and marine life along the beaches). My question/thought too was " You had said you wanted to go to the beach together with me? But you went the other day, when you had time, and zero communication to me?" Sounds bad. Trust level 0%. It reminds of when surfergirl@ mentioned a great date and then no calls back? I just don't understand it. I really, really, hope it won't keep on like this! It hurts. Again. To take the risk, to put yourself "out there" and have things like this happen. All I am asking for is a return call. Not to be ghosted. Much worse when they ( man or woman) says" they DO want to see you again they DO want to speak to you more". Their comes a point where ACTIONS speak much louder than words. That you do feel JUSTIFIED in your words and actions. That this is NOT your fault, that the other person has problems or issues and that it's time to move on, again. I will say this, [on a much lighter note] one bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch, however, after 4 bad apples, 5? It does get harder to press forward. I so,so wanted to come on here with a success story!!  However there is some success from this story. I did have a great introduction, a great, open, fluid, risk taking adventure, along with a sense that there was going to be security,and stability at the same time. That there where things that I did talk about that were greeted with understanding and openness, that lead to trust, on both sides. And that there are some things that can wait until later. Sadly the later is not happening. I have a friend who tells me " maybe she just isn't really ready to date someone yet? She sure seems to be avoiding it? You did all the right things. You handled it well. You are doing good to not blame yourself". I am pressing forward with more of my computer time on my studies for my career, and time doing physical labor on my properties. |
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 25, 2018 12:29:07 GMT -5
“Strike one) I did all the calling and texting, leaving multiple messages. 7 days went by and no response. I was making one last call as a "good faith effort" she answered! She told me that she had been so, so, busy with work and things, and that she hadn't checked any of her messages in a long time. She was at work when I called her and could I call her back the next day? I asked for a time? I was given a time range. Okay. My 100% trust factor dropped to a 70%.”
All of that was enough for strike 3. If a woman is interested you won’t have to keep calling and calling. She’ll respond. Odds are very low that an emergency is keeping her from responding. Take her silence as lack of interest and then move on.
Her change in behavior is the kind of thing I was referring to when I said that great texting or a few wonderful dates still don’t mean you know a person is right for you. Some people fall for others quickly then move on quickly. Some can put on an act for a while then their unreliable true selves come out. All are reasons to take things very slowly,
Also you may have felt the two of you were hitting it off. She may feel differently. The Washington Post matched people on dates then had each person report about the date. Often one person thinks it was a great date: the other felt no compatibility.
No one wants to be ghosted but truth is that men and women ghost. Reason to take things very slowly and no matter how well things are going not to assume the other person is on the same page until you’ve known them in person for a long time.
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Post by baza on Oct 25, 2018 17:45:10 GMT -5
My mind keeps coming back to this Brother greatcoastal . These problems you are dealing with - of being a single male looking for a relationship - are way way better problems to have than the intractable problems of being locked in to an ILIASM shithole. You're available should the right candidate cross your path. That puts you way ahead of the pack. You've solved the biggest problem in your life....by those very challenging choices and actions you took two years back. Now, you're dealing with a "better" set of problems...and the choices you are making now will have their pay off later too. You know how long it took to get that major problem in your life sorted out ... Quite a while. The search for an appropriate candidate is likewise probably not going to be a "quick" process either. The benefits of choices made *today* rarely involve the instant gratification of seeing a benefit *today*. I'd imagine dating would be like that too. Sure, you might get lucky, and fluke on a great candidate your very next turn at bat ... but that's pretty unlikely. |
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 26, 2018 3:58:32 GMT -5
I dropped a guy who I had 2 dates with and got on well with BECAUSE he blew up my phone. General rule - text for text, call for call - with maybe one extra follow up. northstarmom is entirely correct that there's little chance that an emergency will prevent a woman from picking up a text or call from a man she is interested in. If there is a legitimate one, she will contact him again after the emergency is over. It's a rough old game, dating. baz is right - it's a unlikely you'll get lucky and find the 'right' person on your next date. But that shouldn't stop you, because you might get lucky. However, given your recent blow-ups here, it's also quite likely you're giving off 'angry' vibes and you may not be ready for the right one or the right one might not be willing to take you on while you're still so angry. |
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 26, 2018 5:50:41 GMT -5
GC’s behavior with that woman sounds like love bombing. After being in a SM one is vulnerable and it can be difficult to know what is normal and healthy in the dating world. One can inadvertently come on too strong or misjudge the depth of one’s new relationship or one also could mistake as healthy over the top expressions of interest. Here’s info on love bombing which might be helpful for all to know as they reenter the dating world. It is worth reading the entire article. “Spotting the love bomb is both easy, given enough time, and difficult over the short run. There’s more to it than raising an eyebrow if someone sends you flowers after the first date. In fact, that could be a sweet romantic gesture. So how do you know if the guy who has you daydreaming at work, and feeling like a teenager again, is a love bomber? If any of the following occur before six months have passed, slow down, take a step back, check your boundaries, and remember the old adage “If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.” “I know we’ve just met, but we’re perfect together!” Manipulative love bombers don't just walk up and say: "We belong together." They have to give you evidence that it’s true. That's why they target the vulnerable. Masquerading as "good listeners," the bomber gathers intel on your likes, dislikes, insecurities, hopes, and dreams. Before you know it, they're saying you have so much in common, therefore you must be soul mates. A good litmus test is to think of your best friend, how much you have in common, and how often the two of you agree (or disagree). Now consider how long it itook to build that bond. Is it likely someone you’ve just met knows you as well as your best friend? If you find yourself saying, “Yes, they do!” warning bells should be ringing. “Our future’s so bright, we’ve got to wear shades!” Love bombers aren't just confident you belong together for all time; they describe the future in detail, as if it’s a Hollywood screenplay. They use phrases like "We're going to be so happy together..." and "Someday, when I take you to Europe..." and "I can't wait for my parents to mset you.” www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201703/the-danger-manipulative-love-bombing-in-relationship?amp |
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Post by shamwow on Oct 26, 2018 8:55:43 GMT -5
I dropped a guy who I had 2 dates with and got on well with BECAUSE he blew up my phone. General rule - text for text, call for call - with maybe one extra follow up. northstarmom is entirely correct that there's little chance that an emergency will prevent a woman from picking up a text or call from a man she is interested in. If there is a legitimate one, she will contact him again after the emergency is over. It's a rough old game, dating. baz is right - it's a unlikely you'll get lucky and find the 'right' person on your next date. But that shouldn't stop you, because you might get lucky. However, given your recent blow-ups here, it's also quite likely you're giving off 'angry' vibes and you may not be ready for the right one or the right one might not be willing to take you on while you're still so angry. If memory serves, it was something like 3 days between my first, brief (like 2 sentences) message to ballofconfusion and her follow up. The frequency of messages went up steadily after that, but it was usually around 1-1. If either of us had sent / received hundreds of messages in an evening, warning lights would have been going off everywhere. Now, if course, we shoot each other messages all day long. And the topics are all over the place. Yesterday we chatted about cryonics (we will discuss more after I've read some Aristotle she assigned me), whether elephants would ever achieve "personhood", how to handle some emails from her attorney, how her daughter is dealing with her catholic faith in the face of the events of the past year, and how to handle a bridge loan to her older son so he can pay the rent on his last semester of college. But if we started talking about freezing human heads, elephants, religion, law, and the personal finances of our kids from day one? We would have thought the other one was nuts. But we've been at this non-stop since February of 2017. It has built to this. It takes more than two weeks. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 26, 2018 8:57:06 GMT -5
I know you know the definition of insanity,...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Two flaky or probably 2 women in a row who aren't interested would not be unusual. I have had numerous coffee meets following the texting and phone stages where I thought there was some potential, only to come away knowing there was no chemistry for her and definitely none for me. So that's not uncommon. But 4 in a row would have me questioning my approach or my early evaluation criteria.
This latest post seems to reinforce the conclusions several members have posted. That being that you seem to be coming on way too strong or intense in the earliest stages of the relationship. At a point where you are still at best only an acquaintance, your approach (at least to me) reads more like a commitment to an exclusive arrangement. I wonder if many couples know as much information about each other as you want before the 1st real date. I am not surprised that the women might be scared off.
In the old days meeting a prospective date often came about in a high school or college hallway. Both parties had already had a look at each other and perhaps even had a mutual acquaintance in the class to pump for information. It was easier to know if there was any real interest right away. And if not both could just go there separate ways and that was it. It's much tougher in cyber space.
In reading this last post(#3) I sense some desperation for the magic to start happening. I'm afraid it is a lot more complicated than emails and phone calls. I don't always agree with NSM, but I think she hit the nail on the head when advising you of the time period necessary to build the foundation needed for a successful relationship, be it short or long term. It probably holds true even if you just want to date someone.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 26, 2018 9:13:44 GMT -5
I’ve mentioned before that before dating my post sm partner and I had been acquaintances for several years because we were in the same theater troupe. By acquaintances I mean we exchanged words such as my complimenting his dog or his telling me a joke.
The first time we really talked was years after we met. He asked me about a woman he’d met at a bar and had become FB friends with. He noticed she was also my FB friend so asked me about her. He had found her attractive but was concerned that after meeting her and conversing with her at the ba, when he left, by the time he had reached his car she had sent him a long text. It included details about her upcoming divorce and how long it had been since she’d slept with her husband.
He didn’t reply. He was disturbed to have gotten such a long message from someone he barely knew. Over the next few days she sent him several other texts including an angry one saying she liked to be responded to quickly.
I’d never seen that side of her before but I warned him that her flooding him with messages meant something was off in terms of how she handled relationships.
He did end up taking her out a couple of times but never had sex with her because even though she indicated she was willing (she invited him to her home), he felt she would be too demanding in a relationship than he was ready for. He felt there was something off about her.
Six years have passed. She has been in relationships with at least 6 guys during this time and she has acted as if all were loved of her life including one who after she dated him for a couple of months she planned to buy a house with. He has backed off since. Interestingly, all of the men who became her partner were emotionally vulnerable such as caring for ill parents or having major job problems. Secure guys like my partner and others she has attempted to entrap have avoided her.
Interestingly, she bragged to a mutual woman friend that since she was 16, she had never been without a romantic partner for more than 6 weeks. That didn’t sound like something to brag about. It seemed like a terrifying fear of being alone.
FWIW, Post sm boyfriend became interested in me while that woman was chasing him. I was very busy with lots of things including some plays I was in. As a result, I was reluctant to accept one of his invitations. I wasn’t playing hard to get. I was busy and tired. That ironically made him more interested in me. Still, neither of us felt we had found the one until about 6 months after our first date.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 26, 2018 11:04:45 GMT -5
northstarmom 's description of love bombers is right. With my current partner, I really thought there was potential really early on. But I still kept the 1:1 text rule for a while, more or less. I can still remember being a bit "Hmmm - not sure." when we first got together. That was my issue - he hadn't done anything wrong, chemistry was great. But I just needed more time. I quickly got over that. But part of the reason that you don't blow up someone's phone is because you respect their TIME. We used to text all kinds of crazy stuff shamwow - but now we text "Pick up some milk please..." or "Just leaving office" - our text life has really suffered since we moved in together. (Fortunately not the sex life or the crazy conversations).
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Post by shamwow on Oct 26, 2018 14:42:15 GMT -5
northstarmom 's description of love bombers is right. With my current partner, I really thought there was potential really early on. But I still kept the 1:1 text rule for a while, more or less. I can still remember being a bit "Hmmm - not sure." when we first got together. That was my issue - he hadn't done anything wrong, chemistry was great. But I just needed more time. I quickly got over that. But part of the reason that you don't blow up someone's phone is because you respect their TIME. We used to text all kinds of crazy stuff shamwow - but now we text "Pick up some milk please..." or "Just leaving office" - our text life has really suffered since we moved in together. (Fortunately not the sex life or the crazy conversations). I'm not sure our text life will ever decline. Our daily banter during the day is so much a part of "us" |
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 26, 2018 16:45:15 GMT -5
I dropped a guy who I had 2 dates with and got on well with BECAUSE he blew up my phone. General rule - text for text, call for call - with maybe one extra follow up. northstarmom is entirely correct that there's little chance that an emergency will prevent a woman from picking up a text or call from a man she is interested in. If there is a legitimate one, she will contact him again after the emergency is over. It's a rough old game, dating. baz is right - it's a unlikely you'll get lucky and find the 'right' person on your next date. But that shouldn't stop you, because you might get lucky. However, given your recent blow-ups here, it's also quite likely you're giving off 'angry' vibes and you may not be ready for the right one or the right one might not be willing to take you on while you're still so angry. Thank you all for your responses. I want to clarify a few things without sounding angry.. Our initial conversation was back and forth texts. Mostly the basics. I feel it is my duty to gain trust and to be more open. The feedback that I have received from other woman who have done online dating is that " guys are boring and say very little, they need to open up more. . My last date thanked me for my openness and keeping classy. She said " you are so easy to relate with". At the end of our dinner on a Monday I was told " I wish I didn't have to go to work, I would like to spend more time with you". ( I don't think of that as love bombing. Nothing like I experienced with my first date after my divorce THAT was me being Love Bombed!!) I said" I would like to see you again, it doesn't have to be dinner, or it can be?" She responded " how about we meet and go to the beach together Thursday?" I said " okay, we can go boogie boarding and I can teach you, I have several top of the line boards". We agreed I would call her and we would set up a time. Here is where I texted her and called her. Not blowing up her phone or love bombing. When I got home Monday evening I sent her one short text, " Thank you for a wonderful evening. Thank you for your openness and just your presence". Thursday came and I called. I had to leave a message. I left a short " please call me back". I did not blow up her phone. 6 days passed since our dinner and no response. I told a friend about it and how "I was done". He said " NO don't do that! Some people just get really busy, and their mind is all about work, maybe she's just been too busy, she sounded like she really liked you." I was trying to explain to my friend how her phone message didn't even have a name on it. I couldn't quite remember it. It was something like," the person you have reached is not available, please leave a message after the tone". So I called her number right then and there to play the message for my friend. She answered the phone! Well my friend seemed to be right! She was apologetic, that she had been so busy and hadn't had the time to listen to any of her messages, and that she was at work, could I call her tomorrow?" I did get a chance to ask " I thought you did not want to hear from me, since you haven't responded to any of my text or messages?" She said " I'll talk with you tomorrow and we can make some plans". I had some hope. Short story, I did not hear from her. I left one short message and a short text. The next conversation, she was sick, and again, she said ( not me) "I will call you tonight". Well it then becomes lies. I was true to my word. It left me with feeling zero trust. As far as this being the 4th time? All 4 dates where different. Each person different. each ending different. 1) We met at a meetup get together. I was love bombed, sexed, and dumped, then on the same day she wanted sex again. I ended it and never looked back. 2) We met on Passion.com. I did not find her physically attractive at all, once I was able to meet her. She waited until the last minute to send a full body shot. There were no more dates .I ended it. (She also showed me how concerned she was about me actually being "divorced" due to her bad experience- same with the first woman. They both wanted lots of communication about my past) 3) A friend set us up. She was too old for me from the start, she treated me like a fragile child, brand new on the dating scene, and she's finished with dating after her divorce ten years ago. We still had a nice dinner as friends! She lives next door to a friend of mine. I can speak with her anytime we meet. 4) We met on Tinder. I learned from my last three dates that I have a story, and so do they. It's expected and required to be honest and upfront, while also presenting yourself and leaving much more for later. Things where going to go much slower this time, ( compared to Ms I want Some Hot Love, Baby Tonight!!) But, when you don't get any more communication? I did the gentlemanly thing, i left a message. I called. It's done. When it comes to online dating and if you don't have a portfolio ( or even if you both do) you have to ask questions. It's like a job interview before the date even happens.There seems to be a lot more risk involved today ,and in a higher age bracket. What I am still getting used to is the current trend of casual sex first, then getting to know that person. It does not seem to be occurring only between millennials, but is being accepted with people my age .That is a real foreign concept for me. |
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 26, 2018 17:12:52 GMT -5
GC, this is what I'd consider to be love bombing from you. In a different thread you wrote the following. You barely knew her yet already you had been speaking of your future: "I've been on Tinder for 2 weeks + now I met a woman who lives a good 50 minute drive from me. She has issues ( don't we all) one of them is no transportation, but she's working on it. We have had daily phone and text conversations. There were enough things about h I offered to you: My past, my present, and my future. my time, patience, and money ( traveling to see you, bringing you to see me, bringing you back home, buying you meals and things) Words of affirmation, compliments. Physical touch. Quality time. My undivided attention. My sympathy, concern and empathy for your physical and mental health. An opportunity to say "yes" to take a risk, to let your guard down, to open your heart a little at a time, to be your true self. An opportunity for a relationship with my family. My body, and for me to desire yours. Intimacy , through giving and receiving. er for me to want to make things work ( her age, her background, her marital status, etc..)Here is my last email to her.Respect for your boundaries. The ability to date other men, and compare. An opportunity to learn more of what you truly want and need, in a relationship. My guidance and faith in God's word." What you wrote a few minutes ago about a follow-up to a date with another woman sounds very different than what you wrote in the first post in this thread, which did sound like love bombing including the 120 texts between the two of you before you dated. I understand that Tinder doesn't provide you with much information except basically what someone looks like. Still, 120 texts seems like a lot before deciding whether to meet with someone. In addition, when you met for a date, it seems very premature for either of you to be doing the following: "along with a promise of moving forward together." You did not know each other. 120 texts and one date isn't enough to commit with moving forward together unless you were just agreeing to meet again. And after leaving multiple messages for her and getting no response, that was a big hint to move on. Either she was flakey (big red flag) or she had changed her mind about seeing you again but didn't want to tell you that straightforwardly. It's also possible that she had agreed to go on date #2 just to be polite because she would rather ghost someone than say she isn't interested. "I met a woman on Tinder.We had 4 hrs of great conversation through back and forth texts (over 120 texts). It could not have gone any better! We arranged a date the next day. Our time in person was wonderful along with more steady, open communication. Her stories where matched with my stories, her goals and aspirations were met with mine. We were both full of empathy and hope for one another, along with a promise of moving forward together. WE had age, location, ages of children, both divorced, both in a SM, same in physical sizes, etc...... She claimed that she was done with tinder and the way men had treated, her. I ,however showed interest in her as a person and sexually in a classy manor. Lucky me! We both agreed we would go out on another date in 2 more days. We would talk over the phone and make plans. Strike one) I did all the calling and texting, leaving multiple messages. 7 days went by and no response. I was making one last call as a "good faith effort" she answered! She told me that she had been so, so, busy with work and things, and that she hadn't checked any of her messages in a long time. She was at work when I called her and could I call her back the next day? I asked for a time? I was given a time range. Okay. My 100% trust factor dropped to a 70%. Strike 2) The time zone came and went. I left texts and phone messages. days passed and no response. My trust level is down to a 33%. Strike 3) I call on her day off at the time she tells me she is up and around. She answers the phone! She is sick and feeling awful! (I can hear it in her voice) I ask if there is anything I can do? I hope she recovers. She claims she made the mistake of going down to the beach the other day and now she is sick. She said " I will call you back later tonight, I am getting ready to head out the door, a friend is coming over to get me some medication, I'll be alright, I'll call and speak with you more later, so we can make plans." I asked for a time frame? She didn't know, but she would call me. Never happened. No texts either." You also wrote that when communicating with people on dating sites: "It's expected and required to be honest and upfront, while also presenting yourself and leaving much more for later." Many people will lie and deliberately misrepresent themselves; age, weight, marital status, habits, their ethics, etc. This is why it's important to Google before meeting someone and to check their social media. It's also important to not believe they are who they say or appear to be until you've known them for a while. People are going to put their best foot forward and that may include grossly misrepresenting themselves. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 26, 2018 17:44:56 GMT -5
GC, this is what I'd consider to be love bombing from you. In a different thread you wrote the following. You barely knew her yet already you had been speaking of your future: I offered to you: My past, my present, and my future. An opportunity for a relationship with my family. All 5 of the woman I have been out with (excluding the one we are speaking about, since we never met in person) said " I would love to meet your daughters, I really like kids, etc..." I said nothing about meeting them any time soon. They did. All of them. Just meeting greatcoastal and asking the simplest of questions like " were do you work?" Can't be answered without bringing up my stay at home dad /homeschooling 6 children. I tell them very early on, " you need to know, I have 6 kids, and am still raising 3 of them. Some woman run the other way, while some think that's great." So whether I like it or not ,that tends to bring up the future. It also brings up when I am available? My kids live with me every other week. Then comes their ages, and how long are they going to remain living with me? Are they even home much? etc... All of these women, all of them, have leaned very heavily on wanting to meet my family, without any inclination from me. The term Love Bombing is fairly new to me. I learned about it during my divorce on ashrink4men. shrink4men.com/2015/12/22/relationship-stages-with-a-narcissist-or-borderline-and-triangulation/My "future" with this woman was talking about "having multiple dates", not just the present of online and phone conversations. It will also take multiple dates " the future" before i want to introduce a woman to the family. I have also learned on this site that I definitely do not want another sexless relationship. So that means discussing early on in the present what "the future" is going to be. All things that can easily take 120 texts back and forth. Where we texted a lot was about our past exe's and how similar our situations were/are. That's rare, and something that I have years of experience talking about!! |
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 26, 2018 21:16:43 GMT -5
GC said: "All of these women, all of them have leaned very heavily on wanting to meet my family, without any inclination from me."
The women then seem to be rushing things. Would make far more sense to get to know you before meeting your kids.
In one of your posts, you said one of the sites you were using is passion.com. I just looked at its homepage and it seems to be an obvious hook-up site. If you aren't interested in jumping straight into bed with someone, it doesn't seem to be the right choice for you.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 27, 2018 4:30:05 GMT -5
shamwow - it shifts. We banter in person now. Sure we do send occasional texts. But there's no need for text-y conversations when I can shoot a joke at him from the next room or next to me :-) For example - he's complaining about the cat on his keyboard in the next room - I say "Do you have pussy problem?"
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