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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 22:06:31 GMT -5
itsjustus, you're the best, even if you do keep making me cry. Thanks. I'm off to sleep now. Can't solve this problem tonight!
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Post by baza on May 20, 2016 22:16:44 GMT -5
Suggestion for you elle.
Don't produce the letter until such time as you have taken legal advice about how a divorce would shake out for you, formulated an exit strategy and knocked it in to do-able shape, shored up your support network and researched everything you can find about helping kids (if any) transition through such an event.
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By all means draft the letter, revise it, edit it etc. But don't produce it until you have a viable alternative in your pocket.
Nothing shreds your cred quicker than "having the talk" / letter without an alternative plan to back it up.
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Post by holdingontoit on May 23, 2016 11:05:37 GMT -5
Exactly. That is why I am now the refuser in our marriage. I like being in control much better than I liked being the subject of refusing. Now my wife is concerned whether I still love her and she is providing affection as a means to test whether I intend to stay with her. In the past, she rejected affection out of fear that I might push for sex. I like this dynamic much better. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 11:18:19 GMT -5
It's great to want to do good in the world, and show that universal kind of love. I understand what you're saying. But at the same time, somebody has to be looking out for you - making sure that you are not being treated unfairly. In my experience, you can't always count on other people to behave fairly towards everyone, to show compassion, to take the high road, to do the right thing. So - that person who is looking out for you and making sure you're not being hurt? It had better be you. Again, there's a reason you are the SmartKat. I'll take these statement's a step further: I cannot even count on ME behaving fairly towards everyone. I range between genuine avarice and simple carelessness, and it makes me genuinely ashamed when I catch myself in these places. And more times than not, it takes someone else calling me out on these occasions for me to even see it. AND EVEN THEN, there are times (more than I care to admit) when I immediately default to defense mode and try to deflect the blame or project it back onto them. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 11:30:14 GMT -5
And, I need to put myself first. Yes, I COME FIRST! I'd be careful with this approach as well. Theologians say this is Satan's mantra. Or more specifically, "I will not Serve". CS Lewis said Hell is an eternity of Serving Self. From a practical perspective, full application of the "I Come First" attitude precludes ANY real relationship with other people unless you can find someone else that agrees that "You" indeed come first. Or someone whose "I" is indistinguishable from yours. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 12:57:54 GMT -5
@creelunion,
To me 'I come first' would NEVER mean "I will not serve," quite the opposite. Rather, it means - 'I take care of myself first, so that I have the energy to serve.' Sort of akin to "put on your own oxygen mask first before assisting others." It's something that I think every mom on the planet can relate to - maybe even most women. Women tend to put the needs of others first, thereby neglecting ourselves. And if we don't take care of ourselves first, ain't nobody gettin' taken care of. That's what I meant.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 13:00:04 GMT -5
And I would argue, one major issue in many marriages is the fact that one partner is NOT taking care of themselves. Love and accept yourself first, then you can love another. Because you can only give to another what you give to yourself.
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Post by bballgirl on May 23, 2016 13:07:15 GMT -5
And I would argue, one major issue in many marriages is the fact that one partner is NOT taking care of themselves. Love and accept yourself first, then you can love another. Because you can only give to another what you give to yourself. That is so true. Something that helped me find some peace and not be so resentful to how my ex neglected me was the fact that my ex neglected most things in his life including himself. He neglected his health, his car, his routine, his schedule, his children. So in the end I tried not to take his neglect personally, forgive him and seek a better life for myself. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 13:14:21 GMT -5
bballgirl, I can SO relate to the self-neglecting husband routine. The man won't see a doctor, go to the dentist, call his mother, work harder at his job, repair the house, etc. I think the bottom line there is he doesn't really care for himself, so how can he truly care for me? I feel sorry for him, but when I reach the end, I do hope to move forward with love and compassion for him, even once I've decided I can't deal with his bull$hit anymore. Good on you for finding forgiveness. I think that's a tough and commendable thing to do.
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Post by itsjustus on May 23, 2016 13:24:28 GMT -5
And I would argue, one major issue in many marriages is the fact that one partner is NOT taking care of themselves. Love and accept yourself first, then you can love another. Because you can only give to another what you give to yourself. That was my biggest issue and conundrum in my marriage. The feeling of self ishness vs. self lessness. (This is almost worth a whole other thread....). I put myself last to keep the peace, swallowing my opinions and feelings for decades. So when I was finally drowning in despair, I struggled with how my decision to leave would affect not only my ex's life, but my kids, grandkids and extended family. But it finally came down to just pure survival. I'm still being accused of being selfish by my ex(she still knows my buttons...*sigh*) and I still struggle a bit with that guilt, but I truly believe you *must* take care of yourself, first, before you can take care of other's. |
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Post by bballgirl on May 23, 2016 13:31:51 GMT -5
@elle I get that and it got to a point that I got scared he would have a heart attack or stroke because he's in his fifties and you never know. Fifty and a neglectful life style is a time bomb. I'm overweight however I go to all of my yearly check ups and blood work and I exercise.
I mean what fun would sex be if you have no cardio endurance! Anyway I think depression, fantasy, avoidance and OCD definitely plays a role with individuals who are neglectful with a lot of areas of their life.
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Post by bballgirl on May 23, 2016 13:37:37 GMT -5
And I would argue, one major issue in many marriages is the fact that one partner is NOT taking care of themselves. Love and accept yourself first, then you can love another. Because you can only give to another what you give to yourself. That was my biggest issue and conundrum in my marriage. The feeling of self ishness vs. self lessness. (This is almost worth a whole other thread....). I put myself last to keep the peace, swallowing my opinions and feelings for decades. So when I was finally drowning in despair, I struggled with how my decision to leave would affect not only my ex's life, but my kids, grandkids and extended family. But it finally came down to just pure survival. I'm still being accused of being selfish by my ex(she still knows my buttons...*sigh*) and I still struggle a bit with that guilt, but I truly believe you *must* take care of yourself, first, before you can take care of other's. It's the oxygen mask in a plane. Put it on yourself first then others. As well I think most sexless marriages are like a plane on a downward spiral spinning out of control. There's a parachute and you can put it on. You don't want to put it on too soon (have an exit strategy) and you don't want to put it on too late where you waited too long and you can't leave. I say screw the guilt, there is nothing that says anyone has to be married forever. If a spouse does not make us feel loved then shame on them they should feel guilt and have to live with the consequences of their behavior. |
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Post by holdingontoit on May 24, 2016 7:21:16 GMT -5
See, this is a big component of how I tolerate sexlessness. I studiously avoid exercise so I have no cardio endurance and problems with ED. That way, I am not even tempted to have sex, because the sex would be awful and I would be ashamed of my (lack of) performance. Also helps resist any urge to cheat. |
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Post by bballgirl on May 24, 2016 8:02:22 GMT -5
See, this is a big component of how I tolerate sexlessness. I studiously avoid exercise so I have no cardio endurance and problems with ED. That way, I am not even tempted to have sex, because the sex would be awful and I would be ashamed of my (lack of) performance. Also helps resist any urge to cheat. Glad that strategy is working for you. Like I always say there is no cookie cutter solution for everyone. Exercise helped me deal with my depression, I lost some weight, and I just feel better in general being active. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 9:54:17 GMT -5
@elle I get that and it got to a point that I got scared he would have a heart attack or stroke because he's in his fifties and you never know. Fifty and a neglectful life style is a time bomb. I'm overweight however I go to all of my yearly check ups and blood work and I exercise. I mean what fun would sex be if you have no cardio endurance! Anyway I think depression, fantasy, avoidance and OCD definitely plays a role with individuals who are neglectful with a lot of areas of their life. HA! To not have enough cardio for a 10 minute sex workout would SUCK. I'm going to have a seat. Please blow me. |
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