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Post by greatcoastal on May 20, 2016 7:21:09 GMT -5
Elle dear, a hater does not take intimacy and compassion. That.gives you power, that makes them open their heart, just a little. They are not going to do that for you. Think of that " vow" you took." For better or for worse, for richer or poorer,in sickness and in health, till death do us part " those are things that can happen at any moment, before the end of the day! They are beyond our control.
You did not pledge to, " submit myself,degrade,humiliate, demoralize, disrespect, dishonor, myself, have no opinions, emotions,needs, or concerns till death do us part!" What you are going through is mental abuse. Many people commit suicide due to the deep wounds of mental abuse, without ever being physically abused.
When Jesus was put on the cross his own words were, they mock me they torment me. This shows the level of pain and suffering he endured for us. Emotional abuse is serious.
Marriage is a covenant, a give and take agreement, a working relationship.
It's time to start taking.
Perhaps you need a season to straighten out all the different emotions that you are struggling with. I am betting that by the end of summer you will have a different perspective about this, with a different goal in mind.
Are you reading anything that enforces the attitude of taking care of your own heart.?
Do you know any other people that you look up to that will be your mentor. You need to open yourself up and ask for support. Face to face support can be very helpful.
You can not go into a coal mine wearing a white suit, not touch anything and expect to come out clean.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 8:07:08 GMT -5
In my experience, you can't always count on other people to behave fairly towards everyone, to show compassion, to take the high road, to do the right thing. So - that person who is looking out for you and making sure you're not being hurt? It had better be you. So. True. That's exactly what I needed to be reminded of. Thank you, @smartkat |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 8:11:00 GMT -5
@elle staying means that you decided to become a martyr, clearly you are (becoming) a saint (at least as far as celibacy is concerned) so I can see how easily you might see yourself turning into a Joan of Arc of sorts... Stay if you want to stay, for your own personal reasons, because it's your choice, because the alternative isn't better for you, but don't think that "one divorce less" is going to change the world... And martyrs sometimes become bitter, very bitter, which speaks to the point of - if I stay, I'll become a hater. Thank you, truly, for taking the time to write all this. Much to think over. |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 8:12:31 GMT -5
Our refusers, even the worst of the worst aren't 100% bad 100% of the time. they know this. they mix it up to keep us here. Love and hate have nothing to do with this. Its power and control. O. M. G. THIS! Yes! |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 8:19:17 GMT -5
About the unkindness in this world, you must realize that whatever you do, it is certain that not everybody will like you. People are different. The fact that some people are rude to you or don't like you doesn't say anything about you. It says something about them. You are thinking more of others than about yourself. Think of yourself first. There is no reason why someone else would be more important than you. Do what is good for you and you will flourish. Yes, I do have to own the fact that I am people-pleaser. And that I care what people think. And that it hurts me when I make others unhappy or when I think or they suggest that I have done something wrong. Must. be. perfect. Anyone know that mentality?? I need to drop it and unleash my inner bitch, apparently. You're right, tamara68, as long as I am acting with integrity, what others think of me or how they treat me speaks only about them. And, I need to put myself first. Yes, I COME FIRST! Steps towards that today: working out - the guys who own my new gym are effing HOT, so no problem there. Stay out of my head. Eat well. Phone a friend. And keep my boundaries strong with refuser, who happens to be in a nice cycle. Does he see I am floundering at the moment and is he preying on me? Sure make a girl wonder. |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 8:23:16 GMT -5
Elle dear, a hater does not take intimacy and compassion. That.gives you power, that makes them open their heart, just a little. They are not going to do that for you. Think of that " vow" you took." For better or for worse, for richer or poorer,in sickness and in health, till death do us part " those are things that can happen at any moment, before the end of the day! They are beyond our control. You did not pledge to, " submit myself,degrade,humiliate, demoralize, disrespect, dishonor, myself, have no opinions, emotions,needs, or concerns till death do us part!" What you are going through is mental abuse. Many people commit suicide due to the deep wounds of mental abuse, without ever being physically abused. When Jesus was put on the cross his own words were, they mock me they torment me. This shows the level of pain and suffering he endured for us. Emotional abuse is serious. Marriage is a covenant, a give and take agreement, a working relationship. It's time to start taking. Perhaps you need a season to straighten out all the different emotions that you are struggling with. I am betting that by the end of summer you will have a different perspective about this, with a different goal in mind. Are you reading anything that enforces the attitude of taking care of your own heart.? Do you know any other people that you look up to that will be your mentor. You need to open yourself up and ask for support. Face to face support can be very helpful. You can not go into a coal mine wearing a white suit, not touch anything and expect to come out clean. I do have a lot of face-to-face support, counselor, a good handful of close girlfriends who know the entire story - all of it. But, after a long, hard depressing day like yesterday when the insults of the world have added up, coming home to an empty marriage is especially lonely. And, in the dark, with no one to talk to, the lack of connection just hurts, yk? Like itsjustus has said, home is a place where I should be able to lay down all my armor and bare my soul and be heard and be comforted and be loved and be validated. My marriage is not that for me and I feel that acutely lying alone in bed at night. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 20, 2016 8:28:46 GMT -5
Yes...I know and I understand. I would rather go home to an empty house, than go home to an empty spouse.
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Post by LITW on May 20, 2016 9:34:33 GMT -5
So much in this thread I can relate to. I am one of those silly people who thinks I need to stay because I made a vow, yet goes home to an empty marriage every day. Its empty because I don't hate her and I don't disapprove of her, but she is not even coming close to meeting my needs, nor does she seem like she even wants to try. I don't feel like I can lay down all my armor and bare my soul to her. And yet, I made a vow ... I am sorry I don't have an answer for you, but I do have many of the internal struggles you do, so you are not alone. I hope you get some encouragement from the other commenters  |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 10:17:33 GMT -5
I would like to suggest a book. Codependent no more. It took a long time for me to realize that I had given up a lot of myself to try to please my refusing bitch. (Sorry, but that is what she is). I am now realizing that staying with her was me accepting a lot of negativity in my life. Getting away from her was loving to me, and everyone else.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 11:48:18 GMT -5
Without being political (ZERO political commentary on this thread please), I think most of us can probably admit to the preponderance of hateful language that we are seeing in the media. I do not, for the record, believe that it represents the majority of people, but I think it's sensationalized to such a degree that some people latch onto it and take it as permission to be hateful to others. I promise I am going somewhere with this, but bear with me first. Tonight, while on Facebook, I posted what I thought was a sincere and benign question in my town's chat group. Out of 9 comments, 3 were snarky and hateful. It literally made my stomach hurt. And, because I am crier ( itsjustus), I felt like crying over it. And I took down the thread. It just wasn't worth the drama to me. Add the FB debacle to a lunchtime incident wherein a young male and his posse of 2 other males called me "rude" for getting to a table with my female friend before he did. Yep, he looked into my eyes and said "well that was just rude. You saw me going to that table." No, I did NOT see him. And I'm old enough to be his mother and I'm female. What is happening in our culture? Would he say that to his mother? Would he try to take a table from 2 women? Don't men hold doors or give up seats anymore? Ick. Just ick. And totally uncalled for. Those 2 incidents of hatred affected me so deeply that I went for a long walk tonight to process. What I kept coming back to is: how can I be the LOVE and the change I want to see in the world if I dislike or disapprove of my spouse so much that I divorce him? Never mind that he is hateful at times. If I leave, doesn't that mean I am just spreading hatred as well? Doesn't that plummet me down to his level? I walked and walked and thought and thought. And stared at the waxing moon (which is gorgeous tonight where I am). And decided that I should be the bigger one. I should have compassion for my husband's problems, right? I should stay and keep my vows "until death do us part" because I made a promise, because it's the right thing to do regardless of what he does, because it would show my children what LOVE and forgiveness are. Because it's love, not hate. And I don't want to multiply hate in this world. I want to multiply love. Insights? Because now I'm getting that awful, weighty depressing feeling that I have to stay, because to leave would make me the hater. And I refuse to be a hater. I'd go so far as to say it's the haters who need love the most. Help me, cause I'm drowning over here.  Let's make this simple: 100% wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 11:49:31 GMT -5
If you stay you will become a hater. Count on it.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 20, 2016 12:06:06 GMT -5
Rescue yourself from the need of rescuing others.
Or
I have never met a rescuer that doesn't need to be rescued.
Google that tonight I think you will like it, ( I did!)
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Post by itsjustus on May 20, 2016 14:35:39 GMT -5
@elle I wore my metaphorical armor to protect me from day's like you had. And I wore it at home. So every night, I lay down, still wearing it. Staring at the ceiling, next to the person I needed it for. Alone. In the morning, I would almost panic when I woke up, feeling vulnerable and mentally scramble to put it on. *She* was up and who knows in what mood. And I became bitter. I became resentful. I eventually became....numb. Elle? I am a happy person. I'm a nice person. I like making people smile. I just like people. I like getting people to smile back, to talk, to breakout and enjoy a moment with me. The love and change in the world, as you say. I didn't do that when I became numb. I couldn't. I didn't have a place to take off my armor, let alone with someone who would take off theirs and share our vulnerable inner selves with. Someone to cherish, as they cherish me. (Notably, a word commonly used in marriage vows. Do you feel cherished? Was that a part of his vow's? Just sayin.....) We cant be the full potential happy people we can be when we are beat down by contempt. We can't be our true happy people with that day to day dislike and disapproval of the one person we shouldn't have to wear armor around in our hearts. Our children can't learn from us their full potential of love and happiness when one parent can't teach it, and the other is crippled trying. As you noted elsewhere, "martyrs sometimes become bitter, very bitter, which speaks to the point of - if I stay, I'll become a hater." Getting away from that brings us back to our natural selves. But wait. If you're only thinking how much better you would be without that contempt beating you down daily, think of what you would become with someone by your side who was the same! (See Baza comments). Someone you could take that armor off the moment you walk in! You are greeted at the door by someone who you trust all of yourself too, completely!! Think of what your children would then become!!! That's multiplying love!!!! Think of waking up in the morning, no armor on. Refreshed, in the arms of someone loving and kind, who loves you, cherishes you and want's nothing but the best for you. Think of the feelings you would have when he sleepily smiles at you and says "G'morning beautiful." That's the kind of love you want to multiply...... You can't do that where your at now....... |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 21:32:31 GMT -5
itsjustus , you've done it again. I'm still in the hole tonight. But I might, just might be closer to the exit discussion. Over the next few days, my plan is to sit down and write a letter to him, one that I plan to read out loud to him - asking him to move out. It'll come from a place of love and won't be adversarial and won't be written with any strings or any hope that it will cause him to finally get himself sorted. I'll keep you guys posted. I confess to a bit of wallowing over here and not much mental energy tonight. Had a busy, social day today and I'll get myself sorted. I will. It's just going to take some time. As for meeting someone else, someone who would reflect the love I have, honestly I don't care about that anymore, don't know if I even want it and am 99% sure it's impossible. I have enough love and joy for life to share on my own anyway and I can sure as hell take care of myself. I'm already celibate, why not just continue. At least I won't be living under a black cloud anymore. I have plans for my life that don't include my husband or any man. When I can mentally detach from this relationship and see my own future and what I want on my gravestone, I am very, very clear about my life. Tonight, I am still terrified of the culture of hate, but no longer defeated. Thanks a mil guys, really. Sending love and hope out to all of you.
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Post by itsjustus on May 20, 2016 21:56:58 GMT -5
itsjustus , you've done it again. I'm still in the hole tonight. But I might, just might be closer to the exit discussion. Over the next few days, my plan is to sit down and write a letter to him, one that I plan to read out loud to him - asking him to move out. It'll come from a place of love and won't be adversarial and won't be written with any strings or any hope that it will cause him to finally get himself sorted. I'll keep you guys posted. I confess to a bit of wallowing over here and not much mental energy tonight. Had a busy, social day today and I'll get myself sorted. I will. It's just going to take some time. As for meeting someone else, someone who would reflect the love I have, honestly I don't care about that anymore, don't know if I even want it and am 99% sure it's impossible. I have enough love and joy for life to share on my own anyway and I can sure as hell take care of myself. I'm already celibate, why not just continue. At least I won't be living under a black cloud anymore. I have plans for my life that don't include my husband or any man. When I can mentally detach from this relationship and see my own future and what I want on my gravestone, I am very, very clear about my life. Tonight, I am still terrified of the culture of hate, but no longer defeated. Thanks a mil guys, really. Sending love and hope out to all of you. Awwwwww. Damn it @elle ! I keep making you cry, which makes me cry!!! One of us has to stop.!! A letter is a good idea. It's what I did. It allowed me to take my time, think it thru. It also allowed me to soften the harshness that I felt, but also see words that asked, rather than told. I took a lot of lessons from Baz at EP and incorporated them. Then I took time to structure it....to have it flow... all with the intent of pulling a President Lincoln and sticking it in a drawer..a good option. You could do that aw well. I never got the chance to literally give it to her, but it helped me frame everything when it came time..... As for meeting someone else? It's not the time to care. I take exception to your 99% impossible, it isn't, not for someone like you. They will meet you, not the other way around...but, now isn't the time to care. I didn't leave mine to find love. I left mine to survive. I left for exactly the same reason, and terminology you are considering it. The dark cloud. That's exactly what I called it. That's exactly what it was. This has sapped all your energy. All the positive energy I know you have. That comes back. For someone like you, it will come roaring back. It's inevitable. |
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