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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 11:56:40 GMT -5
@shynjdude: Do you trust her? If the answer is no, do you still feel comfortable sharing your life, your self, your finances with her? Do you love her? Sounds like she’s finally starting to respond to you in the way you’ve been wanting. Does it make you as happy with your life as you thought it would? These are all excellent questions, difficult to answer, especially when I know that oxytocin is coloring my answers. Some things I trust her on completely, some things I haven't over the marriage. I'm struggling with whether I was unfair in that. My mistrust is part of the reason things went off the rails. She is being very straight with me now, I think. (Unless it is a huge reset.) Sharing my life with her? Don't know yet. One of the things I need to think hard about. Love her? 🎶 I want to know what love is. 🎶 (Song stuck in my head again....dammit.) My childhood issues notwithstanding, I think the only woman I ever truly loved is my previous AP, who is now out of the picture for various reasons. She's my benchmark. Compared to her, no. But could I love my wife? A solid maybe. There is much about her that is admirable and amazing, much about her that is way different from me and that drives me crazy and makes me cringe. I don't mind the idea of opening my mind more to be less judgmental but that's related to the trust issue. As far as being happy with my life now, way too early. We are almost literally on a honeymoon. We haven't worked on anything serious together since this new wrinkle of sex whenever either of us wants it. I need to get back to Earth and have normal interaction with her before I can have a clue how to answer. Thanks again for making me think. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 12:29:40 GMT -5
@elle, hysterical bonding in pretty consistent with her behavior. Not entirely but not far off. I suppose I'll find out within the next few weeks. Thanks.
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Post by WindSister on Aug 7, 2018 13:02:37 GMT -5
I would just caution putting the benchmark of love on an affair partner. A lot of that is usually wrapped up in fantasy. It may be love, I'm not disputing that, but it is not "with this person everyday" love. It can grow into the deeper love. It FEELS intense in the beginning, and real, and all that gooey stuff... but, I don't know... just watch where you put your benchmarks.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 13:17:41 GMT -5
I would just caution putting the benchmark of love on an affair partner. A lot of that is usually wrapped up in fantasy. It may be love, I'm not disputing that, but it is not "with this person everyday" love. It can grow into the deeper love. It FEELS intense in the beginning, and real, and all that gooey stuff... but, I don't know... just watch where you put your benchmarks. I've considered that. I would speak to her for hours every day. We were involved for about nine months and things only got more intense over time. The times together were natural. Again, no other benchmark, but I can't imagine ever matching that. I miss her but we had to end it. |
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 7, 2018 14:05:00 GMT -5
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I've considered that. I would speak to her for hours every day. We were involved for about nine months and things only got more intense over time. The times together were natural. Again, no other benchmark, but I can't imagine ever matching that. I miss her but we had to end it."
Talking to someone on the phone hours on the phone daily isn't the same as living with them, dealing with bills and the ordinary challenges and frustrations of daily life. And when sex is involved, you're still on the high of the honeymoon stage, which tends to last about 2-3 years. It's after that glow ends that you really get to see who the person is and how compatible you are.
For many, the endorphin rush of great sex and feelings of deep love and connection are what lead them to choose the person they marry. For most, the sky high, heart racing feelings of euphoric sex and deep romantic love last about 2-3 years and then settle into a calmer kind of love that still includes sexual enjoyment together.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 14:18:46 GMT -5
Not sure what else to say, northstarmom. It was far more than infatuation. I know that it isn't like a marriage but we worked through some difficulties. We were best friends besides lovers. And if circumstances had been different... It's painful to know it's over. But both of us are better people for having been together. |
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 7, 2018 14:31:39 GMT -5
"Not sure what else to say, northstarmom. It was far more than infatuation. I know that it isn't like a marriage but we worked through some difficulties. We were best friends besides lovers. And if circumstances had been different... "
I believe all of that. I believe you loved her and may even stil love her. I believe that what you were experiencing was the kind of love people feel at the beginning of romantic relationships. I still know that working through things with a person whom you mainly are talking with on the phone is very different than living with a person and dealing with daily life with them. Over time, the heart racing type of love mellows into a different kind of love. It's a steadier, more realistic love that for most people still includes enjoyable sex.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 7, 2018 17:34:00 GMT -5
I dunno. I'd be inclined to be more believing if this Damascus moment didn't happen as soon as the D word was brought up.
But you are right. Time will tell. Although your measure of weeks is likely woefully inadequate to assess a marital turnaround. Think months of years of consistent and sustained actionable behavior.
My guess is that knowing that your plan is divorce she is overloading your system antibiotics to break your "fever". As soon as divorce is off the table, expect a return to the minimal effective dose to keep you in check. But I could be wrong.
In the meantime, enjoy the oxytocin and hang on for the ride.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 18:04:43 GMT -5
shamwow, the "weeks" is to see if it is hysterical bonding, which is how long that is supposed to last. If it is a reset it might last months. But I am very conscious of the thought that if things go south again I can "snap back" and go back to divorce mode. I am not expecting to be the 1% that can turn around an SM, but it is worth trying. If nothing else I have learned that wife is capable of enjoying and being enthusiastic about sex with me, which is already a huge discovery. Almost certainly we would need counseling anyway if we were to have a shot. The nice part is we both now have a IDGAF attitude about telling the truth when something bothers us (obviously politely) rather than pretend nothing is wrong. (The weirdest moments are when she asks me some basic questions about sex when we are in bed, both of us knowing that now I am more experienced than her, but without saying that part out loud.)
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Post by baza on Aug 7, 2018 18:06:21 GMT -5
You don't mention any progress on your exit strategy Brother @shynjdude .
Presumably because there hasn't been any progress in that matter - or you have scrubbed the idea given your missus transition into a root rat.
Anyway, without you having a do-able plan in your pocket, she is holding the initiative in this dynamic now, and you are along for the ride.
For your sake I hope her driving skills have improved remarkably.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 6:51:11 GMT -5
baza, since I (perhaps handcuffed myself and) agreed to a six month wait before doing any legal moves or telling anyone, I'm not sure what more I can do to plan besides what I am already doing - disengaging financials, investigating places to move, working on my own issues and becoming more independent, getting legal advice, gathering information that would be necessary. If I'm missing something big I could be doing now given my constraints until January, I'd love to know it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 6:57:20 GMT -5
Another day in my new sex bubble with my refuser wife of over 30 years...
Last night she asked me what my fantasies were. After thinking about it, I realized that I had very few fantasies. For the past couple of decades, my only fantasy was just to have sex, any kind of sex, with any willing woman. The idea of receiving oral sex, or a woman on top, was (until this past year) nothing more than fantasy. I certainly cannot even conceive of oiled kiddie pools.
I even told her about how I would fantasize about any random woman next to me on the train, or the woman who shampoos my hair when I get a haircut. I wasn't trying to hurt her but I answered as honestly as I could. Again, amazingly, she seemed to get how much pain I was in and she apologized again.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 8, 2018 7:05:23 GMT -5
baza, since I (perhaps handcuffed myself and) agreed to a six month wait before doing any legal moves or telling anyone, I'm not sure what more I can do to plan besides what I am already doing - disengaging financials, investigating places to move, working on my own issues and becoming more independent, getting legal advice, gathering information that would be necessary. If I'm missing something big I could be doing now given my constraints until January, I'd love to know it. How long does it take to go through a short, average, and long divorce in your jurisdiction? With ballofconfusion, she is over a year into the process with no end in sight. Your wife (no longer stbx) previously said she was OK with the divorce. We're you the one who offered the six month hiatus on legal action. Perhaps while you were in bed? Possibly kicking yourself now for agreeing to it? What you can and should do now is what you outlined. Get everything truly ready to go and not have another "talk" until you mean it and are ready to take action on it. This delay could be a blessing in disguise. But, maybe you'll be one of the one half of one percent who turns it around. It is possible. |
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 8, 2018 7:29:46 GMT -5
“ I (perhaps handcuffed myself and) agreed to a six month wait before doing any legal moves or telling anyone, I'm not sure what more I can do to plan besides what I am already doing - disengaging financials, investigating places to move, working on my own issues and becoming more independent, getting legal advice, gathering information that would be necessary.
If I'm missing something big I could be doing now given my constraints until January, I'd love to know it.”
If you wanted to, you could change your mind and proceed with the divorce now. You even could do that and continue to be there for your wife’s health problems.
You are choosing to not divorce for 6 months. This is your choice not something your wife made you do. It is something you could still choose not to do.
obviously, you are choosing it because you — not just your wife — are getting something out of the delay. It meets your needs somehow. Admitting that transforms you from being helplessly stuck in your marriage to bring a person who is living the life he deliberately chose. You are deliberately choosing, too, not to do other things that would prepare you for divorce. That, too, is meeting your needs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 7:40:39 GMT -5
shamwow, an average divorce in my county is about 9 months. The six months was her idea, because she wanted to wait for a couple of medical procedures. I agreed because I had brought up the D word before I was ready, and I wanted to wait until I got hired from my consulting gig so my base salary would be much lower... averaging my salary over the last three years would screw me with alimony. I finally got my job offer yesterday, 10% lower than my last full time job 2 years ago. I am not going to look to change jobs now, and it's still a decent salary and good benefits, so this is hopefully to my advantage with a decent lawyer. So my game plan for now is to: - Continue to work on myself in areas I've identified, - Continue assuming that we will start the process in January and give her no reason to think otherwise (by making plans together after that date for example), continue to do things in that direction as mentioned. - Work on this new relationship with her and see if there is any hope. Counseling is a possibility. - Get as much sex as I can from this woman who closely resembles my refuser and give her every reason to want more. Up until now I had absolutely no hopes that the marriage could work. I admit I now have such hopes. But I know the odds are very long and I'm trying to keep my head on straight. And I can rely on ILIASM to give me reality checks if I go off to Lala Land.
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