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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 12:50:34 GMT -5
Have you had consultations with more than one lawyer? They differ in experiences and opinions. It also can be wise to take advantage of the best lawyer's free consultations because if you've seen them, your wife won't be able to retain them or get consultations from them. How did your individual therapy session go? I checked out two lawyers, this one struck me as more knowledgeable and more experienced. He acts as a court appointed mediator in my county so he knows how things are likely to go, and he's seen a lot. My therapy session is tonight.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 15:00:06 GMT -5
By the way, I see no downside at all to moving into my own room. It's sort of sweet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 7:01:17 GMT -5
Right now wife and I are in a limbo. She claims she won't stand in the way of divorce but her actions are passively resistant. I told her I'll wait for six months because of her upcoming medical procedures but we each are holding cards that could hurt the other and we're dancing around trying not to blow things up and start the war that would cost more time and money. For now it makes sense for me to take her at her word.
Meanwhile, it feels like she is trying to gaslight me in an attempt for a major reset. I've lived in her universe for so long and she recognizes that I no longer do. She is rewriting history, saying things that clearly aren't true, but politely. For example that she really needed hugs and loving too, even though she rejected mine for over a year. I should have tried harder. She subtly changes other facts, and some are convincing, but all of it is to subtly put me on the defensive again. When I push back she backs off.
It seems to me that she is trying to understand what has changed me and to roll that back. She knows me well and she can't quite add up her understanding of my need for intimacy and my outsourcing as being enough to get me to this more assertive point. I think what she is looking for is the support I get at ILIASM.... because without it I wouldn't be where I am.
I need to shore myself up more but, this group really helps.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 24, 2018 7:33:47 GMT -5
“Right now wife and I are in a limbo. She claims she won't stand in the way of divorce but her actions are passively resistant. I told her I'll wait for six months because of her upcoming medical procedures but we each are holding cards that could hurt the other and we're dancing around trying not to blow things up and start the war that would cost more time and money. For now it makes sense for me to take her at her word..”
Your wife doesn’t want to divorce and you are going along with her ploys to continue the marriage. We’ve told you that you could choose to divorce while continuing to support her through her surgery including by paying for and continuing her current insurance.
You are choosing to put yourself in a situation in which your marriage never ends and you continue to lack sex and romantic love.
As we told you, your wife doesn’t have to agree for you to divorce her. Waiting for her agreement and active cooperation in a divorce means you will never divorce asit is to her advantage to stay married.
There is every evidence that your wife uses her medical problems to manipulate you. Since she wants to stay married, she is not going to act like she is much better after the surgery. Even if it works wonders, it will be to her advantage to at frail and helpless so you continue staying with her — forever.
If you want out, you need to file now and use only your lawyer as the way of communicating with your wife about the divorce.
But if you want to remain miserable in a dead marriage with a wife who doesn’t love you but does love the benefits of your taking care of her while she offers nothing in return, keep doing what you are doing. You will never divorce as long as you feel you need your wife’s approval to end the marriage. You cater to her and support her so she gets what she wants and has no reason to want a divorce.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 24, 2018 7:35:45 GMT -5
“By the way, I see no downside at all to moving into my own room. It's sort of sweet..”
Even sweeter would be living in your own abode and living your life for you instead of for a wife who doesn’t love you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 7:58:46 GMT -5
northstarmom, I understand. I am definitely not staying forever. But as I said, my wife holds some cards I cannot afford to play right now so it makes sense to go along for now. As far as denying myself romantic love, my AP may be long distance....and I cannot ever be with her permanently....but I definitely am experiencing and enjoying romantic love. It allows me to be more flexible in my dealing with my wife. I have the security of knowing that a beautiful woman loves me unconditionally and that I can love someone as well. And knowing what real love feels like, possibly for the first time in my life, is what ensures me that I can never stay in my marriage, even if my wife suddenly discovers how wonderful sex is (which is one of her gaslighting points, actually.) Interestingly, another gaslight she tries to shine on me is that any two people can make a good couple if they work hard enough. Maybe. But with real love, you don't have to work nearly as hard! I could not have known this without having outsourced and finding her. My main worry is how to find someone like my AP whom I could actually marry one day.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 24, 2018 8:07:01 GMT -5
“My main worry is how to find someone like my AP whom I could actually marry one day.”
Being single will help with that. It’s harder to find in person romantic love when one is married and like bing with one’s spouse.
Since you plan to be married for more than 6 more months, I’m assuming you won’t divorce the minute your w completes surgery), you would be wise to continue separating your life from your wife’s as much as possible including by socializing separately.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 8:20:38 GMT -5
Even though wife isn't actively involved, pretty much my only activities with her are ones that are compatible with separating, like throwing out old stuff that would have to be discarded anyway with a separation and divorce. And I can act unilaterally in that direction as well, for example I set up a new separate corporation from our shared one besides a new bank account. Slowly but surely.
Because of my community (meaning the religious Jewish community) I cannot socialize with unattached similarly religious women until an actual divorce.
So at the moment I'm not too upset. If the games continue after six months and nothing else changes then I'll be willing to up the ante and file without her cooperation.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 24, 2018 8:44:24 GMT -5
I suggested that you simply socialize without your wife. I didn’t suggest socializing with single women. Surely there are griups in your community you could join: book groups, sports teams; volunteer opportunities, meet ups. Join them to develop new friendships and skills.
I think you have mentioned possibly eventuslly moving away from your current community. You could visit places where you might move. You could join FB groups and meet ups in those communities.
Expand your network beyond your w and current church. Pursue new interests. All of these will help you have a vibrant now and will up your chances of finding love when you are divorced.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 21:31:58 GMT -5
I'm in reset land.
Officially, wife says she accepts that we will be divorced; she just wants to get past a couple more medical procedures before we do the work.
In reality, she is doing the stuff I always wanted in the marriage. For example, today (the Sabbath) she's eating with me, asking questions about the religion that bring out the teacher in me that she knows I cannot resist, getting into interesting discussions. She's dressing up for me, putting on makeup and perfume for me. She's saying she wants to go places with me - things that would be fun dates, of the type that I tried so hard to find for years and would get shot down. She says, although she is very hurt by the rejection that she interprets in my wanting to leave and my affairs, that she is still sorry that her actions led me to that point (not letting me off the hook for my own actions, though.)
And I got uncomfortably close to being seduced a few nights ago as well. Wife now claims she is horny and wants sex - by sheer coincidence, starting from the exact moment I said the D word. (She says it started a few months beforehand, and "she didn't want to wake me.") I was not happy with myself for letting it get that far and I'm working on my own boundaries to make sure there is no repeat.
I know it is a reset. Therapist thinks it is mania or hypomania triggered by my telling her I want out (she has painted two rooms in the past two weeks and is re-doing both of them); she says her last procedure made her feel that much better.
I've been reset before. About 20 years ago I said I wanted to leave and she kept it up for six months (coincidence?) before I believed she changed - and I was very wrong.
The fantasy that she has changed - that she is telling the truth, and that she is looking at me in a new way since I am no longer walking on eggshells around her - is seductive. I need to consciously remind myself of how she made me feel, how much the rejection hurt me, of other aspects of her personality that she is hiding now from me, of how I know she really thinks about me deep down.
For reasons I would rather not get into, I'm willing to wait until the end of the year before filing. Meanwhile, my priorities are to unilaterally separate myself - financially, socially - without yet telling friends and family that this is going to happen. To work more on myself in areas I have identified as priorities. To start my own life as much as I can while still putting up a front - which I dislike but seems the lesser of evils at this time.
This post is self-therapy to remind myself where my head is at now, and where it has been, so I don't get gaslighted successfully.
But even though I know this is a reset, it is so hard not to look at how she is acting and think, damn, why couldn't this have been the marriage? What if....?
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Post by baza on Jul 28, 2018 23:42:50 GMT -5
There are two plans running here.
#1 - hers, to hose the situation down and play for time (and if she has any brains - to make her landing as soft as possible if it all ends going guts up despite her faux conciliatory tactics) #2 - yours, to play for time for at least another 5 months, keeping the as yet unfinalised exit plan secret from her, your friends and family.
The commonality here is that you are both playing for time, albeit for different reasons, so it is highly likely that that is what will happen.
Her plan is the most do-able...all she has to do is keep doing what she's been doing. Your plan still appears to be up in the air and incomplete...you have a whole lot to yet do.
My money would be on her plan to prevail over yours at this point. And until such time as you have all your ducks lined up, she has the initiative.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 1, 2018 21:29:25 GMT -5
There are two plans running here. #1 - hers, to hose the situation down and play for time (and if she has any brains - to make her landing as soft as possible if it all ends going guts up despite her faux conciliatory tactics) #2 - yours, to play for time for at least another 5 months, keeping the as yet unfinalised exit plan secret from her, your friends and family. The commonality here is that you are both playing for time, albeit for different reasons, so it is highly likely that that is what will happen. Her plan is the most do-able...all she has to do is keep doing what she's been doing. Your plan still appears to be up in the air and incomplete...you have a whole lot to yet do. My money would be on her plan to prevail over yours at this point. And until such time as you have all your ducks lined up, she has the initiative. My bet is on her too. Sorry, brother.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 7:11:21 GMT -5
OK, a lot is happening in my soap opera life.
If my wife is resetting me, then this is one for the books.
A brief recap: Since I prematurely told her I want a divorce, and that I had outsourced, she has acted..strangely happy. She says, somewhat accurately, that this is the first time in a long time that I was honest with her (I stopped talking about wanting sex or really anything important years ago, as I was living my life in a fog of depression and avoidance until meeting my APs and then it became a life of hiding my new much better life from her.)
Readers may recall that she also has had a major problem with mouth infections, which she says has made her very sick for years. I have not completely believed this and therefore, she is correct in that I was not there for her when she was in pain - and I should have been, rather than assuming that her penchant for exaggeration meant that this wasn't something to be taken seriously. From her perspective, this was extraordinarily painful to her - essentially abandonment. And she has a very good point.
Her last procedure in her mouth was a few days before I blurted out the D word, a month ago.
We have had many good and honest conversations since then. And we have had periods where one of us was pissed off at the other. She has not given me a pass on my past actions. She claims to be OK with divorce, just she wants to wait until the end of the year for her hopefully final procedures which she says will fix her mouth completely.
At this moment, for the first time since we've been married, she wants sex. A lot of sex.
This is not a classic reset of "do it and shut up about it." This is her doing everything she never did - initiating, getting physically excited, enjoying it a great deal, trying different positions, and wanting to give to me. She says she herself is amazed at how much she wants it now, how she is upset at herself for not realizing how much fun it is and how her body feels alive for the first time. She is attributing this to her last dental procedure, not my actions.
Of course I'm skeptical. I've been reset before, on a large scale. But this doesn't feel like an act. It feels more like the crap between us is gone and she can actually enjoy sex while it is available. (The wisdom of me being a partner in this is up for debate, but the point is moot right now.)
The most astonishing thing happened on Sunday. She was holding my member, something that hardly ever happened in the past 30 years, and I said how great it felt. She asked why, and I just said that it makes me feel like someone is interested in me sexually.
She started crying. She said, until that moment, she had no idea how much pain I must have been in for so many years. She said that she didn't realize that my pain at being rejected was as high as her physical pain from her illness. She said that even though she was sick, she should have been more aware of what was going on and more understanding of my needs. She apologized profusely. And then again the day after, saying that she would always be there for other people and was blind to the pain of her own husband.
She even said she was surprised I waited that long to outsource. But she is definitely not giving me a pass on it, it hurt her terribly.
Right now, I need to clear my head and figure out what is going on. Although I am having a hard time letting myself go completely during sex with her I am being as generous a lover as I can be, and she really wants to be generous to me as well, being disappointed if I can't quite complete things myself. We are having fun doing other activities as well over the past couple of days.
I still know that in my list of things I want in a relationship, the number of things I get from her is still pretty low. And I have not yet shredded by credibility by saying, OK, let's try again. I am being very honest that I still plan on divorce. But if this keeps on going, it will be hard for me to leave when the main purpose that prompted it seems to be gone. The ILIASM rule that sex is only a symptom of bigger problems is being turned on its head - does getting sex make the other problems less important ,or more manageable?
Meanwhile, I am still working on my own stuff. I joined a gym, I am working on my spiritual side, I am looking at other outside interests that wouldn't involve her and that can help me grow.
But ..things are weird. And they seem to get weirder every day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 7:33:38 GMT -5
This is interesting and better than a soap opera, ShyNJ! It does sound a bit like hysterical bonding to me, could it be that?
I guess my personal take on all this is that marriage is hard, no matter how you slice it. There will be ups and downs and yes, oftentimes even some neglect and mild abuse mixed into an otherwise typical and “healthy” marriage. My point in saying all this is just that I think it’s up to each of us to decide what our calling is, and I do believe marriage is a calling.
The best (and most ridiculous) marriage advice I’ve heard is this: If you want to stay married, just don’t get divorced. I think if two people decide that they want marriage, they can sink their teeth in and stay forever.
It sounds like what you’ve got right now is entirely tolerable. It may not last forever, but if you knew that tolerable was around the bend from intolerable, maybe you could keep kicking the can down the road?
I’m not sure if any of this was helpful or useful. I guess I just felt like opining this morning. ;-) Free advice! You get what you pay for!
😂
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 7, 2018 11:16:09 GMT -5
@shynjdude: Do you trust her?
If the answer is no, do you still feel comfortable sharing your life, your self, your finances with her?
Do you love her?
Sounds like she’s finally starting to respond to you in the way you’ve been wanting. Does it make you as happy with your life as you thought it would?
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