shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25 
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Post by shep40 on Sept 11, 2017 0:36:25 GMT -5
Very involved thread. Massive amount of postings. Proving this is the most authentic Forum about this Subject and all that falls in the mix. Just to clarify my impression is the H was not into intimacy and going for mechanical sex and sustained refusing over time - maybe not at the very beginning - but over time. Refuser becomes counter refuser and vice versa ad inifinitum. He said /She said / did what etc. The bottom line is it is an SM NOW and has been for a long time it seems. So maybe no one is entirely innocent - but what does that change? Shep40 has experience passion and from what I can gather at least a massive infatuation and probably a full on activation of not the mere "sex drive" but the LOVE DRIVE. The most powerful force just about in the human psyche. Here is an Excellent lecture by Dr. Fischer on the "LOVE DRIVE". Thank you for this link...it was interesting to watch. Considering my inexperience, I am trying my best to keep my emotions in check with my AP. I do feel the insane connection but at the same time, I keep on reminding myself that this could be because its my first time. Yes this experience has unlocked many emotions that I didnt know I had. But I am trying to be understanding of the fact that we both are married & as such I have absolutely no right to expect anything out of this. Thank you for being there for me & responding to my post. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Sept 11, 2017 0:47:52 GMT -5
shep40 Bravo for focusing on keeping your emotions in check and navigating your new experience as best you can. Those emotions can sure get out of control sometimes. Sounds like you are keeping a level head thru your experience as best one can. They do call it falling "Madly" in love for a reason but maybe it is something else. Of course, only you know what is going on and it can be a roller coaster ride one way or the other. Making life changing decisions based purely on emotions can be high risk and have crazier consequences. You are already on anti-depressants I believe I bet these can help too during this roller coaster experience you are on now. I aint no doctor or no medical expertise - just to be clear (if it was not already).
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Post by hopingforachange on Sept 11, 2017 3:23:01 GMT -5
I was on Wellbutrin, NDRI type anti depressent, and it had the benifit of reducing my emotional range. So I wouldn't feel the bottom of the emotional lows. As I stated coming out of my depression, I realized it also stopped me from feeling the peaks of the emotional highs. To use the rollercoaster analogy, it cut down the hills and filled in the valleys, to the point that I was on the kiddies coaster.
It is a pretty common side effect of NDRIs, so if your on one and feeling the emotional high you would be bouncing off the ceiling of you were not on it.
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 11, 2017 5:02:17 GMT -5
My experience with antidepressants was that neither love nor lust was suppressed only suicidal emotions.
Meds didn't keep me from having passionate sex and deep love with my post sm partner.
Shep, have you considered individual counseling? Your marriage that has never included the sex and romantic live expected in western marriages is probably the reason for your depression. Individual therapy could help you figure out what to do is that you see what you have been missing.
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Post by McRoomMate on Sept 11, 2017 6:14:06 GMT -5
My experience with antidepressants was that neither love nor lust was suppressed only suicidal emotions. Meds didn't keep me from having passionate sex and deep love with my post sm partner. Shep, have you considered individual counseling? Your marriage that has never included the sex and romantic live expected in western marriages is probably the reason for your depression. Individual therapy could help you figure out what to do is that you see what you have been missing. EXCELLENT IDEA !!! I just started my first session with a psychotherapist - as I am in the middle of a mess - in terms of romance and I am on anything but the Kiddie Coaster - and sometimes wonder if I even have a shoulder harness. Kiddie Coaster sounds pretty nice from here. What I found so far is the therapy helps me see clearly as my heart tends to be a whirlwind kaleidoscope of emotions / desires / "thoughts". |
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Post by hopingforachange on Sept 11, 2017 6:33:44 GMT -5
My experience with antidepressants was that neither love nor lust was suppressed only suicidal emotions. Meds didn't keep me from having passionate sex and deep love with my post sm partner. Shep, have you considered individual counseling? Your marriage that has never included the sex and romantic live expected in western marriages is probably the reason for your depression. Individual therapy could help you figure out what to do is that you see what you have been missing. I still had all of my feelings, just the range of feelings was reduced. It is a common side effect of NDRIs. You might have been on something else. If you were on an SSRI, I don't think there is a way you could have passionate sex. My genitals no longer had that special feeling, they might as well been another arm. |
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Post by shamwow on Sept 11, 2017 6:38:54 GMT -5
Northstarmom, thank you for responding. May be I had that condition but since I had sex for the first time with this other guy & he could penetrate easily, surely thats not the case now? I have asked my husband about going to a sex therapist, counsellet, Dr but he just says we are busy and where is the time for all that etc. I cant force him to go to a Dr. Hence I feel like there is nothing else I can do anymore. Let's say for sake of argument you COULD force your husband to a sex therapist. Then what? A sex therapist is not a sorcerer. He cannot wave a wand and make your husband desire you. More than likely you would go for years and nothing would come as a result. My ex-wife was the only woman I'd been with prior to my divorce. I know that isn't the same since we did have sex (sporadic as it was) over the years. But after the last 3 year bout of celibacy at the end I sure as hell felt like a born again virgin. If I were you I'd do a few things now. First I'd get a good understanding of your finanaces. Second I'd see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to see exactly how a divorce would shake out for you. If you never consummated the relationship you should also see how an annulment works out for you. Finally proceed with care with the friend you met. For most of us we lose our virginity when younger and have had decades at this point to deal with the flood of emotions that come with it. You are experi ni g this for the first time and it's easy to get swept up. Just waving the yellow flag of caution right now. |
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Post by shamwow on Sept 11, 2017 6:43:56 GMT -5
Redefine what you have. Since you and your husband never have had sex, in all religions and jurisdictions that I'm aware of a marriage has to be consummated to be official. Otherwise annulment is possible. You do not have a marriage. You are compatible roommates and coparents. If you are in the US, if you get a divorce, not an annulment, due to having been married more than 10 years, you would qualify for alimony and possibly even a share of your husband's retirement. Contact a lawyer for info. Often the first visit is free and you will learn how a divorce would shake out legally. That you are a stay at home mom does not mean you will always lack financial means and have to rely on your husband. You could get some kind of job. You also could return to school and get skills to get a decent job. The cost of your schooling could even be covered in your divorce settlement. He also would have to pay child support. Presumably your husband would be ashamed that you two never had sex so would cooperate with a legal divorce if that helps keep the secret that the marriage is sexless ( you might be able to divorce while getting a religious annulment).I would bet he has found a way to meet his sexual needs via porn or sex with women or men. For most, as you now are experiencing, the sex drive is powerful and finds an outlet. As for your parents, you are fortunate that they live in another country. That would make it easier to break with tradition. You also could tell them the truth about your sexless marriage. I realize your family doesn't talk about sex. But now continuing that is an option you don't have to take. And I hope you are getting info and informing your children about sex so they have better lives than you have had. There are age appropriate books you can use. Just as a heads-up alimony varies from state to state. In Texas where I live, for example, there is only spousal support in extreme cases (spouse is UNABLE to work because of severe physical or mental handicaps). The idea is that it is in the best interest of all of the spouse works if they are able. However child support here is higher than in most states (I pay about $2,200 on child support every month but no spousal support). The point is that you should see an attorney to get facts on how things work in a particular jurisdiction. |
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Post by shamwow on Sept 11, 2017 7:00:38 GMT -5
Actually I hate to throw a money wrench into the works here but....
Let's say he finds out about the affair and goes ballistic. In that case he could get the marriage annulled and YOU would be left with no means of support and perhaps none of the assets.
You would receive child support since he couldn't get out of that, but honestly now that you have strayed outside the marriage and given him something "legitimate" to make you look like the "bad guy" instead of him if he finds out then it would be foolhardy NOT to se an attorney.
Just think about how he could paint the picture if he wanted to. "I've been married 20 years. My wife has never allowed me to consummate the marriage and has cheated on me with another man. I've been a Saint to stick around this long." It doesn't matter if it's true.
People lie in a divorce. They do. And in our culture like it or not, his story would be the more plausible one since at this point your affair could be considered the thing that led to the break up of the marriage. It would also be more plausible since "usually" it is the wife who has the lower libido (and yes, ladies, I know this is a stereotype).
Most states are no fault when it comes to divorce. That means you don't have to have a REASON other than incompatibility to get a divorce. However fault can sure as hell be considered when breaking up the marital assets and any spousal support due. Even a so-so attorney on his side could tear your story apart (truth rarely matters in a court of law).
Right now? Today? Find an attorney and see how your situation could be spun in both directions.
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Post by McRoomMate on Sept 11, 2017 10:10:11 GMT -5
"Ratun sed non consummatum" (Ratified but not consummated). Not that Canon Law would over rule a State law but worth mentioning even the Catholic Church will consider a Marriage void if never "consummated". canonlawmadeeasy.com/2013/12/19/canon-law-and-consummating-a-marriage/However it seems many states have abandoned the lack of consummation as a grounds for annulment. It will depend of course what Country / State law applies. OTherwise, like Shamwow says - no fault divorce assuming no one gets wise to building a case against and true so true, the "truth" can often get lost or twisted into something else in a Court of Law unfortunately. |
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Post by DryCreek on Sept 11, 2017 10:49:07 GMT -5
@shep43, although the annulment angle might seem tempting socially, discuss it with your lawyer. You might equally find that he could use it against you as a way to avoid splitting assets and pay alimony. Then again, after 20 years together the courts could find the idea of annulment laughable.
Legal advice is recommended before further action. In many US jurisdictions the first meeting is offered for free by some lawyers. It's recommended that you visit 3 to get different perspectives, refine your questions and understanding, and to gauge their style / aggressiveness vs your personality. Even if you have to find a way to pay for these meetings, it's money well spent.
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 11, 2017 11:08:58 GMT -5
"We have a perfect marriage apart from this. "
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Apart from never having had sex with him.
It's pretty common to approach a sexual marriage from a place of "We have a perfect marriage..." I stared incredulously at my own wife as she assured our therapist of how small our problem was and how little we needed his intervention, except for this one small thing - which perfectly painted the priority with which she viewed our disconnection in this area, and which occupied my every waking and sleeping moment.
I later came to view it in a different way, and it helped clarify my thinking.
I had a generally positive relationship with her, outside of sex.
Note that I did not say "marriage". That is because my (and our) view of marriage includes a sexually intimate component, in addition to companionship, mutual service, co-parenting, and common future household investment. A marriage is different (for me) from lifelong friends, or good roommates, or an amicable ex-spouse.
I had an intimate relationship with her that had many positive and future-looking goals, but sexual intimacy was not included. So I didn't have a "flawed marriage". Rather, I had no marriage at all. I can't imagine that either of us would have pledged to celibacy in front of our families and friends.
That doesn't mean we didn't have a relationship, or a wedding. It just means we were not being authentic with the nature of our relationship as we lived.
Food for thought.
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 11, 2017 11:10:46 GMT -5
I am in agreement with seeing an attorney to get some clarification on how things might go for you. If you want to make the most of the 1st visit I suggest going on line and googling "questions to ask when getting a divorce". Educate yourself a bit before your visit(s) and concentrate on what is relevant or that you feel is applicable or important to you. Make the most of your 1st visit to get a feel for how the attorney views the potential case and what state law has to say about what you are entitled to, and to get a feel for what are reasonable expectations coming out the other side. Every thing in this consultation is privileged so ask about the potential downside of having a romantic relationship with a male "friend".
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Post by shamwow on Sept 11, 2017 11:15:19 GMT -5
I am in agreement with seeing an attorney to get some clarification on how things might go for you. If you want to make the most of the 1st visit I suggest going on line and googling "questions to ask when getting a divorce". Educate yourself a bit before your visit(s) and concentrate on what is relevant or that you feel is applicable or important to you. Make the most of your 1st visit to get a feel for how the attorney views the potential case and what state law has to say about what you are entitled to, and to get a feel for what are reasonable expectations coming out the other side. Every thing in this consultation is privileged so ask about the potential downside of having a romantic relationship with a male "friend". If you don't know what to ask when speaking with an attorney, I have a "cheat sheet" I prepared that pretty much answered all the questions the attorney will ask. You will have your own, and your situation is certainly not the typical situation, but it's best to go in somewhat prepared. If you want my "divorce worksheet" send me a PM and I'll get you a copy. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 11:42:41 GMT -5
Well, he was so understanding & made sure he was gentle & just thinking about my pleasure. He said I was beautiful & warm. It made me feel like I was alive for the first time. Later on we both felt guilty as we both are married and dont want to break our family. But our connection is insane. I feel like our bodies click like a puzzle piece if that makes sense. Its weird but may be its my inexperience that hightens everything but he said he felt the same. What am I going to do? Its true my husband is my closest friend. He cares for me deeply. He works long hrs to provide for us. He is a great father to our kids. He even helps out at home with cleaning and laundry. Am I expecting too much? Is sex not that important in marriage? May be I feel the need because I am a virgin? I felt like a teenager with the other guy but surely having an affair is not good for both our families. I dont want to hurt my kids or have them lose their father because of aomething I did....pls give me some advice...what can I do? I feel like I will go crazy without some intimacy. I will even take cuddles or hugs but my husband just avoids any physical contact with me. I tried cuddling him one day & since then he asks me to go to bed first & says he is working & comes to bed after I sleep. I am going crazy thinking about this. Am I meant to lead a sexless & without intimacy life? 😭😭😭 Just curious, would you be willing to share what country/culture you are in? It seems so strange that no one told you anything about sex before the wedding, and you didn't know you were expected to have sex. I do have to tell you this. The reason you feel so close & connected to the other many is that you built up a LOT of sexual tension with your intimate conversations, hugs & kisses. So when you finally did fuck, it was like explosives. But if you were to have sex with him again, I would think that it would not be as good or as intense. You might start seeing his flaws, imperfections, etc. As to whether you could build a good sexual relationship with your H, it is possible, but you would have to do a lot of work. I would think you would need to talk to a counselor or therapist to try to build up some attraction to each other. You have spent 20 years staying away from each other sexually, so you just don't think of each other that way. On the other hand, you seem to have so much resentment & aversion to each other that it may not be worth it. As for the Other man, I assume you haven't seen him since you had sex? Has he tried to contact you? |
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