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Post by northstarmom on Sept 9, 2017 8:37:58 GMT -5
Redefine what you have. Since you and your husband never have had sex, in all religions and jurisdictions that I'm aware of a marriage has to be consummated to be official. Otherwise annulment is possible.
You do not have a marriage. You are compatible roommates and coparents.
If you are in the US, if you get a divorce, not an annulment, due to having been married more than 10 years, you would qualify for alimony and possibly even a share of your husband's retirement. Contact a lawyer for info. Often the first visit is free and you will learn how a divorce would shake out legally.
That you are a stay at home mom does not mean you will always lack financial means and have to rely on your husband. You could get some kind of job. You also could return to school and get skills to get a decent job. The cost of your schooling could even be covered in your divorce settlement. He also would have to pay child support.
Presumably your husband would be ashamed that you two never had sex so would cooperate with a legal divorce if that helps keep the secret that the marriage is sexless ( you might be able to divorce while getting a religious annulment).I would bet he has found a way to meet his sexual needs via porn or sex with women or men. For most, as you now are experiencing, the sex drive is powerful and finds an outlet.
As for your parents, you are fortunate that they live in another country. That would make it easier to break with tradition. You also could tell them the truth about your sexless marriage. I realize your family doesn't talk about sex. But now continuing that is an option you don't have to take. And I hope you are getting info and informing your children about sex so they have better lives than you have had. There are age appropriate books you can use.
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Post by hopingforachange on Sept 9, 2017 9:23:38 GMT -5
In the beginning when you penitration couldn't happen was there other forms of intimacy and other sexual things happening?
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shep40
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Posts: 25
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 9:30:40 GMT -5
In the beginning when you penitration couldn't happen was there other forms of intimacy and other sexual things happening? No, there never was any other form of intimacy. He is not a very affectionate person. I dont see him hugging other people or anything. And thinking about it now, his family is also not affectionate. In fact they are extremely non affectionate people but when I met him, I thought he would be different as he was & is very friendly. Even my family is not affectionate but I still crave it. Initially he might have hugged me a few times but for exa if I hold his hand, he actually lets go of my hand. And he does it without even realizing. Any kind if intimacy is that unnatural to him
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shep40
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 9:34:32 GMT -5
In the beginning when you penitration couldn't happen was there other forms of intimacy and other sexual things happening? No, there never was any other form of intimacy. He is not a very affectionate person. I dont see him hugging other people or anything. And thinking about it now, his family is also not affectionate. In fact they are extremely non affectionate people but when I met him, I thought he would be different as he was & is very friendly. Even my family is not affectionate but I still crave it. Initially he might have hugged me a few times but for exa if I hold his hand, he actually lets go of my hand. And he does it without even realizing. Any kind if intimacy is that unnatural to him Also he always went for straight sex...remove clothes & get on kind which I found very awkward to do. There was never a beginning to anything. No hugging, kissing or touching me to get me in the mood. The amount of times I have had to try to get him excited with hand & yet when it wouldnt happen he would just say not going to happen & turn around & start snoring while I wondered what I did wrong or if I wasnt attractive enough for him. And now when the other guy says I am beautiful or cute, I dont completely believe him. I cant understand how he gets a hard on with just hugging or kissing me while my husband cant even after I try many things as instructed by him.
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Post by dinnaken on Sept 9, 2017 9:59:33 GMT -5
In the beginning when you penitration couldn't happen was there other forms of intimacy and other sexual things happening? No, there never was any other form of intimacy. He is not a very affectionate person. I dont see him hugging other people or anything. And thinking about it now, his family is also not affectionate. In fact they are extremely non affectionate people but when I met him, I thought he would be different as he was & is very friendly. Even my family is not affectionate but I still crave it. Initially he might have hugged me a few times but for exa if I hold his hand, he actually lets go of my hand. And he does it without even realizing. Any kind if intimacy is that unnatural to him This is astonishing, change the gender and this could be a description of my experience with my wife
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shep40
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 10:06:15 GMT -5
No, there never was any other form of intimacy. He is not a very affectionate person. I dont see him hugging other people or anything. And thinking about it now, his family is also not affectionate. In fact they are extremely non affectionate people but when I met him, I thought he would be different as he was & is very friendly. Even my family is not affectionate but I still crave it. Initially he might have hugged me a few times but for exa if I hold his hand, he actually lets go of my hand. And he does it without even realizing. Any kind if intimacy is that unnatural to him This is astonishing, change the gender and this could be a description of my experience with my wife Its amazing to read other people have same issues. I really thought something was wrong with me. I mean who stays virgin till 43 🙁
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Post by dinnaken on Sept 9, 2017 10:15:49 GMT -5
Yes it's amazing but also reassuring to know that it's 'not just you'. No, nothing was wrong with you beyond poor judgement (something that many, many of us here have in common).
But to have lost your virginity in such a joyful way...
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shep40
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 10:42:29 GMT -5
Yes it's amazing but also reassuring to know that it's 'not just you'. No, nothing was wrong with you beyond poor judgement (something that many, many of us here have in common). But to have lost your virginity in such a joyful way... Thank you for your support. I questioned my worth all the time...and yes I will always be greatful to this guy for being so wonderful to me for my first sexual experience. I will never ever forget it. For that reason alone he will always have a special place in my heart
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shep40
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 11:03:03 GMT -5
Redefine what you have. Since you and your husband never have had sex, in all religions and jurisdictions that I'm aware of a marriage has to be consummated to be official. Otherwise annulment is possible. You do not have a marriage. You are compatible roommates and coparents. If you are in the US, if you get a divorce, not an annulment, due to having been married more than 10 years, you would qualify for alimony and possibly even a share of your husband's retirement. Contact a lawyer for info. Often the first visit is free and you will learn how a divorce would shake out legally. That you are a stay at home mom does not mean you will always lack financial means and have to rely on your husband. You could get some kind of job. You also could return to school and get skills to get a decent job. The cost of your schooling could even be covered in your divorce settlement. He also would have to pay child support. Presumably your husband would be ashamed that you two never had sex so would cooperate with a legal divorce if that helps keep the secret that the marriage is sexless ( you might be able to divorce while getting a religious annulment).I would bet he has found a way to meet his sexual needs via porn or sex with women or men. For most, as you now are experiencing, the sex drive is powerful and finds an outlet. As for your parents, you are fortunate that they live in another country. That would make it easier to break with tradition. You also could tell them the truth about your sexless marriage. I realize your family doesn't talk about sex. But now continuing that is an option you don't have to take. And I hope you are getting info and informing your children about sex so they have better lives than you have had. There are age appropriate books you can use. Thank you for the in depth response. Yes I have started looking for work as I have a degree. Divorce is not easy due to families being involved but its something to think about for sure. We are friends for 20 yrs so its not easy to break all ties. Kids are involved too so have to think about that too. Dont know where my life is headed but yes luckily my kids have sex ed in school & i will make sure they are informed & never face anything like i did.
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 9, 2017 11:06:36 GMT -5
Sounds like your husband is asexual . Read about a sexuality. It's not your fault nor is it changeable. You can choose to live a permanently miserable life or you can break with tradition and create space for the life you deserve.
Bad as your situation is it's better than that of a young woman who posted on iliasm' precursor, Experience Project. She had left her Middle East country to enter an arranged marriage in England. She was like being with her husband and in laws who literally kept her loved in the house. They also kept her passport. She was a virgin with no hope of kids or escape. If she did manage to escape, she'd have to return home where her presence would shame her family. Men in her culture will not marry divorced women.
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shep40
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 11:15:10 GMT -5
If you are in an ILIASM shithole, and then choose to get a 3rd party involved, it is invariably a game changer. Here, for example, the third party has awakened your sexual persona, and there is no putting that genie back in the bottle. Probably, what will happen with this other bloke is nothing as far as the longer term future goes, but I'll bet that at the very least it has got you thinking about how short changed you have been in your primary relationship (and that's not necessarily a bad thing). It will boil down to this. If you stay in your non sexual primary relationship, you can kiss goodbye any thoughts of a robust intimate life. That is probably going to escalate your resentment levels greatly - quite possibly to a level where you have to get out. Another scenario would be your spouse finding out about your painting outside the marital lines and giving you shit about it for years and years after, making your life a misery. Or reacting volcanically and divorcing you. The odds are, that one way or another, divorce is in your future. Not tomorrow, but probably sooner than you think. On that basis, my suggestion is that you see a lawyer in your jurisdiction and establish how a divorce would shake out for you, in theoretical terms. In other words, find out what the stakes are in this game, and how you might manage that situation. I'd caution against devoting much time / energy on your spouse. You are not going to convince, cajole, manoeuvre or manipulate him into being anything other than what he is. Sexually disinterested in you. I think you need to take a longer term view of things, and he is not likely to be in that picture as a partner - though he most certainly would be in the picture as a co-parent. Difficult choices loom for you Sister shep40 . Try and make those choices on as fully informed a basis as you can. You are right that I cant go back to being non physical now that I have experienced what its like. Till the time I cant support myself & my kids, I will stay in the marriage and if he finds out, I will calmly ask him how many more yrs he expected me to stay without intimacy. I did what I had to. If he has a problem, he can divorce me. Though I love him because I am married to him, I have distanced myself emotionally over a period without even realizing. I realized after meeting this other guy what an emotional connect feels like. I felt vibrant & alive, mentally & physically for the first time. If my husband decides to make my life hell, well whats different? Its already a hell. I crave for adult human touch. Even a simple handshake makes me teary. Thats a hell to me. And I dont think he would want me to tell anyone what our problem is so then the least he can do is allow me to find my fulfilment elsewhere.
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shep40
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 11:20:27 GMT -5
Sounds like your husband is asexual . Read about a sexuality. It's not your fault nor is it changeable. You can choose to live a permanently miserable life or you can break with tradition and create space for the life you deserve. Bad as your situation is it's better than that of a young woman who posted on iliasm' precursor, Experience Project. She had left her Middle East country to enter an arranged marriage in England. She was like being with her husband and in laws who literally kept her loved in the house. They also kept her passport. She was a virgin with no hope of kids or escape. If she did manage to escape, she'd have to return home where her presence would shame her family. Men in her culture will not marry divorced women. Will be reading about asexuality for sure. Do not know what that is. Yes definately in better situation that the other girl. My husband doesnt abuse me or lock me or even lay a finger on me. Instead he is caring. He will help out in the house. He even takes us out to eat whenever kids or I say we want. We watch movies together as a family, go out & have fun too. Hence I call him my close friend. Apart from physical aspect, I have a perfect partner who cares for his family. But 20 yrs is a long time that I waited. Now after my first sexual experience, I just cant go back to being like before anymore.
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shep40
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 11:31:26 GMT -5
shep40, welcome to the club nobody wants to be in, and, my condolences for your ordeal. I'm going to assume you're from a Christian background. Normally, I don't make long posts, but I can't make a Cliff's notes version of this. The first thing I would like you to consider is shedding your guilt over what happened. You've been a saint, dealing with this for as long as you have. I would like to give you some scripture to go along with this, which helped me from my perspective, and, I hope helps you. 1 Corinthians 7:3-5: 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Shep40, your husband has been depriving you in clear violation of his vows. I don't think I need to quote from Eclesiastes to remind anyone what G-d thinks about people that break their vows to him. My perspective is at odds with society. From my vantage point he made a promise he did not fulfill. He is the cheater. He has cheated you out of two decades of a basic human need. In this day and age of modern medicine, there is no acceptable excuse for that. I want to extend this to English common law. If there was a contract for services that the provider could not or refused to fulfill, the customer was then free to find services from another provider. I know my perspective is different from society, but society does not see the abusive nature of forced celibacy. You married with full faith that he would fulfill his vows. He has not. He never told you that you would live a celibate life with him. You never consented to this abuse. Your deal was "to have and to hold", and he cheated you out of that. Thank you. I needed to hear this because this is the conclusion I reached too. I will do what I have to but will not keep myself deprived anymore. If and when he finds out, I will tell him exactly that. I agree that in the beginning I said no to sex but that was really because I didnt even know what sex was & I was awkward with nudeness in front of a complete stranger. But I didnt say we will never have sex or that he should never hug me or have even basic intimacy that couples share. But for him at that point it was either sex or nothing. And after those few fumbling tries everything just stopped. Few yrs back, we went on a holiday during my birthday week. Well I wore sexy clothes & tried to cuddle with him on the bed. We tried again but he just wouldnt get excited. It was like a slap on my face. Nothing I did excited him. So he said sorry but lets just sleep. If it happens, it will happen naturally but no more trying...how will it happen without trying? My birthday was ruined big time & I cried myself to bed & he didnt even notice lying next to me. Its been crushing to live this life so now I am not going to live like it doesnt matter to me anymore because I need that physical contact to feel like I am worth it & I can attract a guy too at 43.
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 9, 2017 11:59:35 GMT -5
Do not pin your hopes on sex ever happening with your husband. You now feel yourself how powerful the sex drive is. How you feel now is how normal people feel when they are sexually attracted to someone. That is why normal people may fuck several times a day each day of their honeymoon. Heck, I was 61 when I got into a relationship with my post sm lover who was 60. We'd have sex 3-4 times s day on our twice weekly encounters. 4 years later, we live together and have sex about 3 times a week.
Your husband is not normal. He is either asexual or getting his gratification another way such as kids. (!), porno, men or hookers. he has a problem! And, your reaction was normal to clench involuntarily your vaginal muscles when he'd done nothing to sexually excite you. Sex would have been very painful for you.
The fact that you had Ivf despite presumably having no exams to document infertility may be what you need so you are able to get an annulment. Without the ivf it's possible neither your clergy nor a judge would believe you have grounds for an annulment.
Your husband is not a nice person. He had deprived you deliberately of what he vowed to provide when he married you. Letting you choose films does not make up for that. Meanwhile, because you have remained married to him, he has been able to masquerade as a normal, sexually healthy, fertile man. You have unfairly paid the price for that.
I strongly suggest that you find out your options by talking to a lawyer and if you are Christian to clergy. Do not tell your husband. His nice guy facade is likely to quickly crumble if he realizes the truth is going to be revealed about his lack of manhood. That could put you in danger.
And do not tell your husband about your affair. He may use that info to lie and tell others you are lying about his not engaging in sex with you.
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shep40
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Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 12:09:19 GMT -5
Do not pin your hopes on sex ever happening with your husband. You now feel yourself how powerful the sex drive is. How you feel now is how normal people feel when they are sexually attracted to someone. That is why normal people may fuck several times a day each day of their honeymoon. Heck, I was 61 when I got into a relationship with my post sm lover who was 60. We'd have sex 3-4 times s day on our twice weekly encounters. 4 years later, we live together and have sex about 3 times a week. Your husband is not normal. He is either asexual or getting his gratification another way such as kids. (!), porno, men or hookers. he has a problem! And, your reaction was normal to clench involuntarily your vaginal muscles when he'd done nothing to sexually excite you. Sex would have been very painful for you. The fact that you had Ivf despite presumably having no exams to document infertility may be what you need so you are able to get an annulment. Without the ivf it's possible neither your clergy nor a judge would believe you have grounds for an annulment. Your husband is not a nice person. He had deprived you deliberately of what he vowed to provide when he married you. Letting you choose films does not make up for that. Meanwhile, because you have remained married to him, he has been able to masquerade as a normal, sexually healthy, fertile man. You have unfairly paid the price for that. I strongly suggest that you find out your options by talking to a lawyer and if you are Christian to clergy. Do not tell your husband. His nice guy facade is likely to quickly crumble if he realizes the truth is going to be revealed about his lack of manhood. That could put you in danger. And do not tell your husband about your affair. He may use that info to lie and tell others you are lying about his not engaging in sex with you. Ok that does make sense. Though I really think my husband is a nice guy. I mean I have known him for 20 yrs. He is a caring friend but its true that I didnt sign up for a caring friend when I married him. He once touched me while me, my Dad & him were going to another place in a cab. My dad was at front but still it grossed me out & embarrased me because we were not yet married then & my Dad was less than few feet away from me. I was embarrased to the core. I tried to hide it & hope my Dad didnt notice but that also made my initial impression about him not so nice because we both come from traditional families where any public display of affection is also not seen, let alone sexual touching etc. I will try to have at least initial consultation with a lawyer.
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