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Post by northstarmom on Aug 17, 2017 7:51:28 GMT -5
Celibatejoe,
If you have no desire for your wife and no interest in getting medical or other assistance to develop that desire, I hope you have told your wife. If she wants a sex life, I hope you have opened the marriage for her or offered her a fair divorce.
That would be the right thing to do. I wish my ex had done that instead of ignoring me and refusing to discuss the subject. When I finally gave up and asked for a divorce, it ended up he had a lover. When I asked him why he hadn't told me years earlier that he'd lost desire for me, he said he was afraid I would commit suicide. Truth was that after years of refusal I had lost romantic love for him, but was staying married because of my vows and because I thought he was impotent but loved me. Being able to leave the marriage was a relief.
I am now with a wonderful man who returns my love. I hope you are honest with your wife and give her s chance to find real love.
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 17, 2017 8:29:29 GMT -5
You mention *marriageS* rather than marriage - singular - Brother celibatejoe. Presumably there have been a few. I'm in my third marriage at present. you raise a compelling point, where you say - "From what I read here, the prevailing opinion is that people without sexual desire for their spouses should simply acquire more. How does that work, exactly?" Clearly, one cannot simply *manufacture* sexual desire... in oneself, or more particularly in another person. Which I figure is your whole point. A wife can fail to understand or fail to believe it's even possible for a man to lose sexual desire. She would rather believe there is anger, depression, or something else going on in a husband's mind, something that can be therapized away, obstructing sexual desire for her. And it is a highly relevant point when looking at the issue of a sexless marriage from the opposite side of the pancake (where most of the membership of this group resides) My purpose isn't to inflame. My purpose is to point out there are separate psychologies for men and women. Any refused spouse would do well to read what you have been writing, particularly those who are trying to manufacture desire in their recalcitrant spouses. It's a road going nowhere. There are pills for blood flow, but not desire. Even if there were, I wouldn't take it. I hope you do not come in for a kicking here Brother celibatejoe. I think your thoughts on this issue are highly relevant and of great potential value to the group. Thanks. |
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 17, 2017 8:36:38 GMT -5
Celibatejoe, I totally get it....for me, I have explored this idea in the thread about "losing it" in the sexuality folder... I also feel like I have faked attraction too much. I spent all my years before 30 being rejected by women I was attracted to and finding the only women who were interested in me were ones I had no interest in. It was soul crushing. Maybe I too was ego-stroking but at the same time I also felt the need to find someone who wanted me... The constant rejection or 1 date and then rejection was going to kill me ( yes, I have faced suicide a few times in my life). I too have never really connected. It was mostly a physical activity. While I have only had sex a couple dozen times in my whole life (40+), never have experiences put me on top of any mountain. I guess that's why I just use masturbation and get by in my SM...... Many (even my W) would say I have missed out on a lot in life...and now I feel it winding down....and I face my demon and where I ended up.... Clearly the lesser. Wow, a kindred spirit. That makes me feel better, SolitarySoul. If you were born without limbs, would people come to you and say you missed out on walking? Would they tell you but for lack of a little effort on your part, legs would start growing out of your pelvis and, pow, Bob's your uncle, you can walk? Sex isn't everything. There's more to life than some otherworldly "intimacy" only women seem to experience. |
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 17, 2017 8:41:16 GMT -5
Celibatejoe, if you and your wife are on the same page, there then is no problem with lack of sex in your marriage. If she still wants it and you have no interest in reestablishung a sexual relationship, you need to tell her and free her to be available for sex with someone else.
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 17, 2017 8:53:15 GMT -5
sexual desire is NOT limited to 'when you feel horny, you have sex'. Responsive desire is where you had no such hornyness but agree to start. Imagine being with a woman you're not attracted to. Like it's an arranged marriage. She wants the "horniness" to start. Even if you agree, does this "horniness" start, in you? With the foreplay comes arousal and with the arousal comes desire. But never orgasm. Or so rarely that it isn't worth the drama and emotional expense of sexual intercourse. Speaking about myself here. So instead of just acquiring more desire what I am saying in my scenario is, let's start and see if the desire for sex kicks in. The simple fact is (with my wife) it will kick in. So why won't she have sex then? Her body betrays her. It has nothing to do with you. I don't know her, obviously, but I seriously doubt it has anything to do with you. Because she is perfectly happy without. Just because she gets really really in to when we do, just because she shows clear enjoyment does not override the fact that she is perfectly happy without. So therefore she will decline and go to sleep or continue doing whatever she was doing. How long have you been married? People rarely enter marriage self-aware. That awareness comes over time, if it ever does, and accrues from psychic trauma and conflict. She may have changed since those days when you did it like rabbits. why did you stop having sex with your wife if you don't mind me asking? Anyone here can ask me anything, no matter how personal. I have nothing left to lose. I didn't stop having sex with my wife. I stopped having sex, period. I've had enough. I'm done. I just got tired of always giving, and never getting. |
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 17, 2017 8:58:24 GMT -5
Celibatejoe, if you and your wife are on the same page, there then is no problem with lack of sex in your marriage. If she still wants it and you have no interest in reestablishung a sexual relationship, you need to tell her and free her to be available for sex with someone else. We have a tacit agreement never to talk about it. She balls up and goes silent when she is called upon to discuss anything deep or personal. It's a lot like trying to get a 6 year old to give testimony on the witness stand. That kid just sits there, scared to death. She could be having sex with someone else right now. I'd be the last to know. No wife needs to be "free" to do that. She just does it. Is that something you've done? I'm not judging. I am just curious. All the women I've known, and I've known many, tell me cheating with permission is still cheating. It doesn't feel any better. |
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 17, 2017 9:10:42 GMT -5
If you have no desire for your wife and no interest in getting medical or other assistance to develop that desire Forgive me, but do you realize how blatantly sexist that sounds? There isn't a woman here who would do that for her man, especially if he was breathing down her neck to do it. It'e not a medical problem. It's not a problem, for me, at all. I hope you have told your wife. If she wants a sex life, I hope you have opened the marriage for her or offered her a fair divorce. I see. So that's what a good husband does, right? Abandon the only woman who would take a bullet for him? Dump her, leave her on her own, begging her relatives for a place to stay? She doesn't have to ask me to cheat. She knows she can, and it's that knowledge that keeps her from doing it. I could be wrong, of course, but I know her very well. That would be the right thing to do. I wish my ex had done that instead of ignoring me and refusing to discuss the subject. When I finally gave up and asked for a divorce, it ended up he had a lover. When I asked him why he hadn't told me years earlier that he'd lost desire for me, he said he was afraid I would commit suicide. Truth was that after years of refusal I had lost romantic love for him, but was staying married because of my vows and because I thought he was impotent but loved me. Being able to leave the marriage was a relief. My heart goes out to you. You went through an awful experience, but it isn't mine. I never entered marriage with sex in mind. My wives did not have to be attractive. They just had to love me as I was, as they all promised. They never did, of course. I am now with a wonderful man who returns my love. I hope you are honest with your wife and give her s chance to find real love. Like I said, the door is always open for any spouse, not just mine. She has real love. She tells me that all the time. It's actually more valuable and palpable without the sex. |
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 17, 2017 9:20:06 GMT -5
My background: been married 14 years. About 10 years ago, the sex stated to decline and seemed to become like a chore (or faking) to my W. She never told me she was faking. She didn't have to - it was obvious. She wouldn't talk about our issues. Not talking about it for me was worse than not having sex. We have had zero sex for the last 6 years. I kept trying to initiate for a few more months and then stopped trying. She still won't talk about it. Last year I made my final push to get professional help and that involved the 2 of us filling out workbooks at home (she refused to go and see a therapist face to face) She filled out the first two chapters, but would not talk to me about it. She drug her feet the whole time. Chapter 3 was printed out for her, but she never filled it out. That was at least 6 months ago. I'm done trying to fix this. I'm just here for the kids. Not having sex is one thing. Yes we on this forum tend to focus on that. But all this other bullshit of not talking honestly about it really makes us feel like our spouses don't give a damn about us. At this point, my desire for her is gone and I do not expect to ever "simply acquire more" desire for her. I understand your anger, but there is an understandable (to me) and pedestrian reason she can't talk to you about it, in or out of the presence of a counselor. Anyone that has a lot of time in can tell your spouse is not your best friend. Is there a husband here who tells his wife everything, no matter how hurtful? Your anger is certainly justified but I'm going to assume your wife isn't evil incarnate. Maybe she's caught between a rock and a hard place. In her mind, the consequences of telling you are the same as they are not telling you. Not telling you is way easier. I've been through two divorces. I would love to tell you they were very hard for me, but they weren't. Each was over in 6 months flat and I haven't seen my exes since. Then again, I always had custody of my two children. |
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 17, 2017 9:44:36 GMT -5
"Anyone that has a lot of time in can tell your spouse is not your best friend. Is there a husband here who tells his wife everything, no matter how hurtful?"
For many, the consequences of saying that one never will engage in sex with their partner is the partner will cheat or end the marriage. That is no excuse for a refuser' s withholding the truth in order to remain married or to prevent their partner's getting sex elsewhere. It's selfish and cruel.
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Post by rejected101 on Aug 17, 2017 9:46:07 GMT -5
sexual desire is NOT limited to 'when you feel horny, you have sex'. Responsive desire is where you had no such hornyness but agree to start. Imagine being with a woman you're not attracted to. Like it's an arranged marriage. She wants the "horniness" to start. Even if you agree, does this "horniness" start, in you? With the foreplay comes arousal and with the arousal comes desire. But never orgasm. Or so rarely that it isn't worth the drama and emotional expense of sexual intercourse. Speaking about myself here. So instead of just acquiring more desire what I am saying in my scenario is, let's start and see if the desire for sex kicks in. The simple fact is (with my wife) it will kick in. So why won't she have sex then? Her body betrays her. It has nothing to do with you. I don't know her, obviously, but I seriously doubt it has anything to do with you. Because she is perfectly happy without. Just because she gets really really in to when we do, just because she shows clear enjoyment does not override the fact that she is perfectly happy without. So therefore she will decline and go to sleep or continue doing whatever she was doing. How long have you been married? People rarely enter marriage self-aware. That awareness comes over time, if it ever does, and accrues from psychic trauma and conflict. She may have changed since those days when you did it like rabbits. why did you stop having sex with your wife if you don't mind me asking? Anyone here can ask me anything, no matter how personal. I have nothing left to lose. I didn't stop having sex with my wife. I stopped having sex, period. I've had enough. I'm done. I just got tired of always giving, and never getting. Thank you for your response. I suppose each scenario is somewhat unique and as such, to be clear, if I leave it completely for around 5-7 weeks, my wife will without doubt initiate sex herself. She will enthusiastically do it all. It is not a reset to keep me quiet it is because she enthusiastically wants sex. When we had our couples counselling she was adamant that she hasn't lost the ability to enjoy sex, still finds me desirable but only tends to have sex when she fancies a romp. The counsellor was the one who began to have her contemplate how fair she was being given that 'our sex life' was not 'ours' it was 'hers'. My wife acknowledged fully that she could happily participate way more often and once a week was a figure that she stated she could manage but typically, what this boils down to is, she is happy enough without so she forgets about it. In your scenario, which is very delicate, if you are 'done' and your partner assumably isn't, have you considered giving your partner the green light to find that pleasure away from you. It certainly isn't ideal but I have seen on many occasions where people have unfortunately adopted the stance of 'I'm done' so you'll have to be done too. This is very unfair and what leads to people being here all to often. |
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 17, 2017 9:54:54 GMT -5
Thank you for your response. I suppose each scenario is somewhat unique and as such, to be clear, if I leave it completely for around 5-7 weeks, my wife will without doubt initiate sex herself. She will enthusiastically do it all. It is not a reset to keep me quiet it is because she enthusiastically wants sex. That's a good thing. When we had our couples counselling she was adamant that she hasn't lost the ability to enjoy sex, still finds me desirable but only tends to have sex when she fancies a romp. The counsellor was the one who began to have her contemplate how fair she was being given that 'our sex life' was not 'ours' it was 'hers'. The wasn't very good advice, if you ask me. You two are entirely separate and unique sexual beings. You counselor is implying your wife should have sex with you whether she wants to or not. My wife acknowledged fully that she could happily participate way more often and once a week was a figure that she stated she could manage but typically, what this boils down to is, she is happy enough without so she forgets about it. Yes, she gave you pablum. In your scenario, which is very delicate, if you are 'done' and your partner assumably isn't, have you considered giving your partner the green light to find that pleasure away from you. It hasn't come up, and she knows better to ask, because she knows I'll say yes. It certainly isn't ideal but I have seen on many occasions where people have unfortunately adopted the stance of 'I'm done' so you'll have to be done too. This is very unfair and what leads to people being here all to often. Marriage is about commitment, not fairness. |
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Post by celibatejoe on Aug 17, 2017 9:57:34 GMT -5
I'm on the other side of this coin, so I can attest that affection and willingness are no substitute for desire. It's like reopening a wound every time you try, so I get her logic. I don't find many men who feel the way you do. Most men are fine with pity fucks. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 17, 2017 10:05:06 GMT -5
Exactly! I do believe that are a lot of refuser' out there who are refuser' by virtue of choice. They aren't incapable of having or enjoying sex, simply they are perfectly happy completely without or with the odd scattering of sexual encounters when they feel unusually horny. This describes the attitude of my X concerning sex. She repeatedly refused because she had no desire. On the quarterly occasions when we did enjoy intimacy I can truthfully say she seemed to enjoy it. She even said she had no desire but that once we were actually being sexual she enjoyed the climax(s) she experienced and was happy afterward. So it was (is) a case of her choosing not to even though it brought pleasure . She was(is) simply content to skip the process. |
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 17, 2017 10:07:07 GMT -5
"You two are entirely separate and unique sexual beings. You counselor is implying your wife should have sex with you whether she wants to or not."
The counselor was suggesting compromise. We do that all of the time in relationships. We take turns selecting social activities, food to eat, when to eat. What you are implying, for instance, would be that a spouse whose job is helping support the family only go to work when they feel like it.
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Post by rejected101 on Aug 17, 2017 10:08:19 GMT -5
Thank you for your response. I suppose each scenario is somewhat unique and as such, to be clear, if I leave it completely for around 5-7 weeks, my wife will without doubt initiate sex herself. She will enthusiastically do it all. It is not a reset to keep me quiet it is because she enthusiastically wants sex. That's a good thing. When we had our couples counselling she was adamant that she hasn't lost the ability to enjoy sex, still finds me desirable but only tends to have sex when she fancies a romp. The counsellor was the one who began to have her contemplate how fair she was being given that 'our sex life' was not 'ours' it was 'hers'. The wasn't very good advice, if you ask me. You two are entirely separate and unique sexual beings. You counselor is implying your wife should have sex with you whether she wants to or not. My wife acknowledged fully that she could happily participate way more often and once a week was a figure that she stated she could manage but typically, what this boils down to is, she is happy enough without so she forgets about it. Yes, she gave you pablum. In your scenario, which is very delicate, if you are 'done' and your partner assumably isn't, have you considered giving your partner the green light to find that pleasure away from you. It hasn't come up, and she knows better to ask, because she knows I'll say yes. It certainly isn't ideal but I have seen on many occasions where people have unfortunately adopted the stance of 'I'm done' so you'll have to be done too. This is very unfair and what leads to people being here all to often. Marriage is about commitment, not fairness. [Bqi "Marriage is about commitment, not fairness" But it would seem in my case and many others before that the commitment is all my responsibility. Have sex when she wants to, stay faithful forever, accept that although she could have sex and enjoy it tonight that she won't because she is fine to just watch TV. The commitment must be on both parties shoulders and not one. All I can say is that I truly believe that if we reversed the roles and I was declining invitation after invitation from my wife to have sex, I would expect her to eventually leave or cheat. Now I'm not going to say that I would be happy with that but I would honestly look at and say "what else was I seriously expecting? I can happily do it but just because I'm happy not to bother I make her go without which kills her self esteem". I don't know really. This is such a complex scenario with no real answer. |
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