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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 13, 2017 13:59:31 GMT -5
Okay, I admit it, in some ways I feel like the victim in my SM.
I've seen posts on here about this topic and how freeing it is when you finally come to the realization that you are not a victim and begin to understand that you are also to blame for your situation. I can see how that may help in this journey so I've been attempting to do that but I am honestly not getting very far.
So here's where I know I am to blame: I ignored red flags early on, I accepted excuses while ignoring my gut, I didn't push my H or question him as much or as early as I should have, I assumed things would get better as long as we loved each other enough and were willing to "work on it".
Since joining this forum I have gained the courage to push him harder for answers and I've received them. I detest the answers because they've affirmed my fears (that he does not want ANY kind of touch or sexual intimacy) but I am glad to have them so that the situation is no longer ambiguous. We are starting couples therapy in a few days and I intend to try to learn as much as I can about his wants and needs (or lack thereof) and how he envisions our marriage moving forward. If that vision does not work for me then I have a decision to make.
If I choose to stay, despite knowing there will be no sex and likely very little intimacy, I know I cannot claim to be a victim as I am making the choice to be in that situation. But I still can't help feeling like this isn't my fault. It's HIS asexuality that has thrust me into this position. If he had been honest about his aversion to sex and about how deeply his past sexual abuse still effects him we wouldn't be where we are right now. I resent it. All of it. And in ways I resent him too. I do feel like a victim.
So help set me straight. Give me some tough love and a different perspective from which to examine this.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2017 14:21:21 GMT -5
My fiance wouldn't fuck me last night. This is a red flag. I'm breaking off the engagement.
I didn't get laid last week. I think I'll break off the engagement.
My fiance could have been more passionate last night. I think I'll break off the engagement and find myself a real stud.
The problem with red flags is that they are only obvious in retrospect, with the hindsight of YEARS of history. But they are almost impossible to act on in real time. In fact, most of the people you know would think poorly of you if you did, and you disclosed why.
The fact is that your H fucked his way to a ring on his finger because he wanted to marry you, but he didn't want to fuck you. He tolerated it to get what he wanted. Without concern for how the monogamous nature of a marriage would affect you. And he had far too much experience (with failed sexual relations) to play the young and stupid card.
If you want to focus on being a victim, that is just a label. Last year he FINALLY, after NINE FUCKING YEARS, came clean with you.
Now you have a decision to make and that is all that matters. And all of us that fucked around with this decision for many more decades will tell you that the only thing that matters is that you accept your reality and make a good decision NOW. Not next year, not in five years, not after hiring someone to try to fix your husband (the counselor).
And finally, if you are never able to give up on the impossible, you will never get out. You will never find happiness.
That's the best tough love I can give you.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2017 14:38:47 GMT -5
"We are starting couples therapy in a few days and I intend to try to learn as much as I can about his wants and needs (or lack thereof) and how he envisions our marriage moving forward. If that vision does not work for me then I have a decision to make."
That statement really bothers me. He has made it quite clear how he envisions the marriage moving forward. Without sex or physical intimacy of any kind. He has made it clear in his actions, and upon being pressed, he has expressed it in words. What could couples therapy possibly do to solve YOUR PROBLEM?
You are still focused on him. To the detriment of yourself. And beware of someone that bills a couple of hundred per hour as long as you are willing to stay in the game. They don't make any money by telling you your husband is effectively asexual and there is near zero chance of making you happy. They'd rather bill $10K or far more giving it the ole college try. On your nickel.
The best that can come out of counseling is that the counselor convinces you to be happy in your misery. Been there, done that.
There are stories here where a couple had a happy sex life for 10 years or more, and suddenly it goes flat. Those people could use some counseling. They had something that worked, and now it's broke.
You are different. Your husband was broken long before you ever met him. You would be better served to find an INDIVIDUAL counselor to help you determine why you are so reluctant to correct such an obvious mistake.
More tough love. Some people might think I've exceeded some boundaries but you wanted tough love. I wish someone had grabbed me by the shoulders when I was your age and given me a good shake.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 13, 2017 14:42:37 GMT -5
So here's where I know I am to blame: I ignored red flags early on, I accepted excuses while ignoring my gut, I didn't push my H or question him as much or as early as I should have, I assumed things would get better as long as we loved each other enough and were willing to "work on it". Bingo. And ditto. It's a dilemma, for sure. You got dealt a crappy hand. And you ignored the warnings and dig your hole deeper. And it's hard to leave. But if you choose to stay, I think you forfeit the right to complain. At least, that's my logic, speaking as someone in similar shoes. Staying isn't easy. Trying to grin and bear it is also hard. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 13, 2017 14:53:21 GMT -5
You are different. Your husband was broken long before you ever met him. You would be better served to find an INDIVIDUAL counselor to help you determine why you are so reluctant to correct such an obvious mistake. More tough love. Some people might think I've exceeded some boundaries but you wanted tough love. I wish someone had grabbed me by the shoulders when I was your age and given me a good shake. I don't think you've exceeded boundaries. I appreciate the perspective. I have indeed started my own counseling. I found a new counselor who specializes in recognizing what is missing in your life and how to make changes to create the life you want. She is also a life coach with a focus on relationships, infidelity and divorce. I felt she was the right fit. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 13, 2017 14:56:17 GMT -5
choosinghappy, I also agree with beachguy about counseling. You should open with *your* view of where the marriage needs to be, irrespective of where it is or where he might want it to go. State your goal, not a baby step. It will help gauge whether there's hope for the process. But also to his point, my experience with counseling was the same as he describes. The dialog was never about how to fix the problem, but instead how to get me to accept it. From the counselor's perspective, they have a much higher chance of success doing that. Useless.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 13, 2017 14:57:11 GMT -5
There is a positive side to "a few" counseling sessions. If you go with an attitude of "Healing thy self only" you will see his one sided selfish, manipulative controlling, behavior for what it really is.
I just went through a similar experience in going through mediation, and deposition.In fact an attorney questioning my wife was far more helpful than a therapist. (The questions and the answers that I could tell you!!)
I walk away from this experiencing with deep thoughts, mostly in the evening. What keeps coming to my mind is this, "This list of things I wrote down, (my notes from the deposition) I am supposed to accept this? Tolerate this? Continue to give in and live this way? Imagine 10 more years of THIS!! AND TRYING TO CHANGE IT? Lies, Lies, Lies,!! Never mind ever being intimate with this person ever again?"
I feel way better knowing "It's coming to an end" and " I have a new, fresh start ahead of me".
I wish the same for you, truly!!
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 13, 2017 15:17:05 GMT -5
This philosophy helped me to not feel like a victim.
I do not know if it's true because you don't know what's going on in another person's head but I chose to believe it at the end of my marriage and it helped me to not feel like a victim.
"My husband loved me the best way that he was capable of".
Those are the words.
My H did do some loving things through the years: flowers, jewelry, cards, took me out to dinners, movies, a few vacations but after years and years of a lack of affection, intimacy, and attention those THINGS meant less and less and we grew apart and the romantic love perished.
"My husband loved me the best way he was capable of".
I hope it helps.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 13, 2017 15:19:11 GMT -5
This philosophy helped me to not feel like a victim. I do not know if it's true because you don't know what's going on in another person's head but I chose to believe it at the end of my marriage and it helped me to not feel like a victim. "My husband loved me the best way that he was capable of". Those are the words. My H did do some loving things through the years: flowers, jewelry, cards, took me out to dinners, movies, a few vacations but after years and years of a lack of affection, intimacy, and attention those THINGS meant less and less and we grew apart and the romantic love perished. "My husband loved me the best way he was capable of". I hope it helps. Thank you bballgirl. I know this to be true for my H. He does love me and he does try. He just may not be capable of giving me what I need. |
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 13, 2017 15:19:21 GMT -5
choosinghappyI am on the journey just like you are and so please take anything I say with a grain of salt. Im sharing what my realizations are and if they are applicable to you and helpful then great. If it muddies ther water even further then perhaps its best to ignore. In short, I mean no disrespect. To me not playing the victim means taking responsibility for your feelings and actions. Call it owning the dysfunction. Owning the dyfunction means setting boundaries. That is, communicating clearly and honestly about needs, goals and fears without feeling uncomfortable. In the ideal scenario, this requires not only self-awareness, but the courage to make yourself vulnerable with a partner in an environment of trust and vice versa. I dont know the back story in your case. But from what you wrote, I make 2 observations. 1. Did your partner know what your needs were and that they werent being met? If so, how was he held to account for him of not meeting those needs? As an example, in my case, I let this go on for 3 yeras thinking, she will come around, I need to be patient, she's tired, she has a lot on her mind and so forth. I just need to give her time and initiate from time to time. I was suppressing my needs and at the same time justifying her reasons for doing so. Now I personally struggle with this. At what point do I hold my partner to account? 2. Setting boundaries requires self awareness and honesty. If the partner is not self aware or honest, then its difficult, if not impossible to set boundaries and then respect those boundaries. Hopefully this gives you food for thought and allows some additional clarity.
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Post by hungrylikethewolf on Jul 13, 2017 15:39:06 GMT -5
So for me, the very simple model I follow (and some off you might know this) is: One Day at a time.
You cannot change the past, so let it go. You cannot predict the future, 'cause if you could that lottery ticket would be yours....so let that go.
All you get to attempt to control is today. So do your best. Your best for you, and your best for your kid(s). And when your head hits the pillow at night you can assure yourself you did all you could that day, you will no longer feel like a victim. You will slowly win your power back one day at a time.
And once you do that, you will see that YOU have a say in your own happiness and you will refuse to let someone else take that from you.
Now each day you may ask yourself the same questions about love, marriage, infidelity, divorce and you are free to answer them anew and differently each day. And maybe someday, the very best thing will be for you to leave ..,or maybe that day never comes. But in the moments before you go asleep you assure yourself that you did your best and you will get a whole new shot at it tomorrow, you will release your regret, you will be kind to yourself for today and you will give yourself confidence for tomorrow.
And trust me, after some time of this daily pattern, no matter what circumstances you find yourself, you will be happy.
Some may say that's easier said than done, but I disagree...all you got to do is kick butt today. Period
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 13, 2017 15:44:57 GMT -5
To me not playing the victim means taking responsibility for your feelings and actions. Call it owning the dysfunction. True. Not to mince words, but "victim" implies helplessness; being trapped and unable to avoid one's plight. I don't know that any of us are truly victims, though we've had varying degrees of unfair shit thrust upon us. We can choose to stay, or choose to leave; both can be miserable options, but at least one of them solves the immediate problem. If one leaves, it's understandable to be bitter about the circumstances, though it'll fade. But if one stays, that needs to be a choice they can be at peace with. If they stay and it makes them bitter, that's very unhealthy and nobody will listen to complaints about a problem they chose not to solve. |
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2017 16:05:26 GMT -5
You are jailed under false pretenses. You are sentenced to life without possibility of parole, nor any conjugal visits. For a crime you did not commit. Are you a victim?
Now, your jailer offers you a deal. You can walk out of prison. But he will cut off a finger of his choice. Are you still a victim? You have a choice now.
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Post by jim44444 on Jul 13, 2017 19:10:49 GMT -5
choosinghappyThat is a valid assumption and quite often true. The problem arises when one or both parties will not or cannot "work on it". It that case no amount of love can make things better and if things do not get better then they get worse. Although I do not think anyone here is a victim I do believe we all share some of the blame for our situations. The ones who spoke up and addressed their concerns early on probably never ended up here. I certainly lacked proper communication skills 20 years ago, allowing my W to assume I was OK with a declining sexual relationship.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2017 19:17:21 GMT -5
I'd like to see some actual evidence that that is "quite often true". I understand why someone young, idealistic and naive would think that. But everything I think I've learned since I first googled "sexless marriage" many years ago suggests if it isn't right in the beginning, it will never get better. (never being near zero, 0.0001% chance = never in this context) |
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