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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Jul 14, 2017 18:38:30 GMT -5
I beat myself up for years over my sexless marriage, and I still am to some degree. There were lots of red flags for me too. It's easy for me to tell you not to blame yourself but only you can believe enough in yourself to actually do it. I've read a lot of your posts, you are a smart, well spoken, good person, like a lot of people here. Unfortunately you ended up in this bad situation, not your fault! It's a good thing your husband can acknowledge that he has a problem and is willing to try to do something about it.
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Post by baza on Jul 14, 2017 19:22:31 GMT -5
It may well be that Sister choosinghappy is not "at fault" in as much as she was not the predator who touched up Mr loneleywifey years ago. And nor would that have been Mr lonelywifeys fault. The apportioning of fault/blame however, ain't going to do anything about bringing this to resolution. The original action from where all this sprang was some unknown bloke, years ago, who abused Mr lonelywifey. Now we could all write a paragraph about what a despicable cunt this predator was, and lay the blame/fault squarely on him for setting this whole sequence of events in motion. And as far as helping our Sister lonelywifey, that would be an entirely useless pursuit. The resolution to this situation is NOT going to come from that sexual predator. And on the evidence so far, the resolution is NOT going to come from Mr lonelywifey either. The resolution to this situation is going to come from Sister lonelywifey, or, not at all. Hard choices loom. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 14, 2017 20:01:24 GMT -5
The apportioning of fault/blame however, ain't going to do anything about bringing this to resolution. .... The resolution to this situation is going to come from Sister lonelywifey, or, not at all. Hard choices loom. I suppose the first sentence, above, gets to the heart of why I started this post. I do want to figure out a resolution and make a decision. However, I've seen over again in posts on this forum, that it seems accepting your portion of the blame in your SM and realizing you are *not* a victim in this scenario is a vital and necessary step towards resolution. I don't necessarily feel I've successfully done that. I own up to my portion of the blame. And I don't feel like a "victim" in the strict sense of the definition. But I continue to feel like it's not my fault and my concern was that maybe I need to do more work on THAT before I can successfully move forward. You're right that in the end it doesn't matter whose fault it is; only the reality of the situation matters. |
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Post by baza on Jul 14, 2017 21:30:12 GMT -5
FWIW, I struggled with this concept for years.
That "I was a good bloke, and did not *deserve* to have a dysfunctional partner/marriage. That I did not deserve to have a kid with difficulties. That I did not deserve to have (insert life event here) thrust upon me, that I deserved a free pass. Because I was a good bloke. Because it wasn't my fault. I was a victim"
Which raises a major question.
Who DOES *deserve* to have these things thrust upon them ??
You ?
tamara68 ?
shamwow ?
Laura ?
darktippedrose ?
geekgoddess ?
smithy8015 ?
lifeinwoodenville ?
scrimshaw ?
snowman ?
baza ?
(insert ILIASM member of your choice) here ?
What I am getting at, is that no-one gets a pass.
Not me, not you, not anyone.
The responsibility - even in adverse circumstances - of choice = consequence is completely egalitarian, it plays no favourites, no one gets a pass.
And that, is the unfortunate truth.
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Post by tamara68 on Jul 15, 2017 2:19:00 GMT -5
I have felt like a victim often, I felt like I didn't have the strength to do something about all the bad luck I had. Also I had a this feeling very long ago about wanting to be taken care of. So I had a mindset that made me very inadequate to deal with the things that life throws on us. Better late than never, I have changed my way of thinking. I can't say I am completely there yet, but I no longer feel like a victim. As baza says, bad things happen in life. If you stop asking 'why me?', you can spend your energy at doing something about it. choices are hard, but the hardest part is not the actual things to do, but to change your way of thinking and start believing that you actually CAN do something about it. That is where it all starts. Despite all things that are still not good in my life, I feel victory about all the improvements and above all about taking my life in my own hands again and doing what I need to be me. |
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Post by orangepeel on Jul 15, 2017 3:12:32 GMT -5
This philosophy helped me to not feel like a victim. I do not know if it's true because you don't know what's going on in another person's head but I chose to believe it at the end of my marriage and it helped me to not feel like a victim. "My husband loved me the best way that he was capable of". Those are the words. My H did do some loving things through the years: flowers, jewelry, cards, took me out to dinners, movies, a few vacations but after years and years of a lack of affection, intimacy, and attention those THINGS meant less and less and we grew apart and the romantic love perished. "My husband loved me the best way he was capable of". I hope it helps. That's a really good way to look at things. I have no doubt that my W loves me to the best of her ability. But her ability to love me just isn't what I want or need and I have to accept and deal with that. Exactly. iceman is a wise man. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 15, 2017 7:53:02 GMT -5
I'm in my bed thismorning and I hear my W. up extra early, talking with her father in the room right next to mine. later I hear her talking with one of the children, in the other room that she is staying in, next to mine. I find myself listening intensely for every word she says. Why?
Because there is so much manipulation, spin, lies, and half truths, that she speaks. This continues the zero trust. It has spread throughout the whole family. Having her father be an accomplice to this deviation, is no laughing matter. It has spread throughout the entire family.
The children are now well aware of how their mother "operates".
So do I feel like a victim? Very much so.
Add on top of that our recent two hours of deposition. My attorney witnessed first hand a barge load of manipulative control, that I have had to deal with for 25 yrs. Before that was 8 hrs of Mediation, where three attorneys had to tolerate all of her manipulation tactics.
So, apart from the manipulation involving no sex, would I say," My wife loved me the best way she was capable of"? No, not really.
Instead I would say, " She knows very well what she is capable of doing, and has mastered it. She will continue to be that way with anyone. The best thing for me to do is run the other way."
Yes, like a victim, who says, "this was not in my contract, this is not what I signed up for".
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 15, 2017 17:40:23 GMT -5
I have felt like a victim often, I felt like I didn't have the strength to do something about all the bad luck I had. Also I had a this feeling very long ago about wanting to be taken care of. So I had a mindset that made me very inadequate to deal with the things that life throws on us. Better late than never, I have changed my way of thinking. I can't say I am completely there yet, but I no longer feel like a victim. As baza says, bad things happen in life. If you stop asking 'why me?', you can spend your energy at doing something about it. choices are hard, but the hardest part is not the actual things to do, but to change your way of thinking and start believing that you actually CAN do something about it. That is where it all starts. Despite all things that are still not good in my life, I feel victory about all the improvements and above all about taking my life in my own hands again and doing what I need to be me. I am looking forward to hearing about your victories, and sharing mine with you! |
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Post by baza on Jul 15, 2017 20:15:27 GMT -5
"Feeling" like a victim is one thing Brother greatcoastal . Thing is, you are not acting like a victim, and haven't been for a year or more. |
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Post by snowman12345 on Jul 15, 2017 20:28:01 GMT -5
So here's where I know I am to blame: I ignored red flags early on, I accepted excuses while ignoring my gut, I didn't push my H or question him as much or as early as I should have, I assumed things would get better as long as we loved each other enough and were willing to "work on it". Bingo. And ditto. It's a dilemma, for sure. You got dealt a crappy hand. And you ignored the warnings and dig your hole deeper. And it's hard to leave. But if you choose to stay, I think you forfeit the right to complain. At least, that's my logic, speaking as someone in similar shoes. Staying isn't easy. Trying to grin and bear it is also hard. Why does choosing to stay forfeit your right to complain? The situation is still unfair for you and airing your grievances keeps your refuser on the hook. It's part of that communication thing - letting them know what your needs are. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 15, 2017 20:59:13 GMT -5
Why does choosing to stay forfeit your right to complain? The situation is still unfair for you and airing your grievances keeps your refuser on the hook. It's part of that communication thing - letting them know what your needs are. I do think you need to be vocal. But when that's been done generously, and proven ineffective, what's the point in staying and continuing to complain? For argument's sake, you've been clear, they've heard your grievance, and they're ignoring it; how is continuing to complain going to change anything? I'm not saying the situation stops sucking. But it's clear where both parties stand after some point, and you're left to vote with your feet. If you stay past that point, you're implicitly accepting things as they are. Even someone's support network will grow weary - if you can fix it but choose not to, you'll lose even the most sympathetic ear. Just my perspective. I'm trying to stay. To do that, after many years of trying to influence change, what's left is to find peace with what I have. I'm striving not to complain about it because I've chosen not to "fix" it by leaving. That doesn't mean I don't wish it were better. |
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Post by beachguy on Jul 15, 2017 21:14:50 GMT -5
I don't believe there is a single instance here or on EP where someone complained their way into a satisfactory sex life. Complaining does not keep your refuser on the hook. What hook? Nor does it improve communication. Your refuser has communicated their position quite clearly and is not interested in your complaints.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 15, 2017 21:33:20 GMT -5
Rather than complain it would be better to sit your spouse down and explain that celibacy is no longer an option. With some teeth behind it. Communication without action achieved is a waste of time.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 15, 2017 22:00:42 GMT -5
Complaining effectively communicates the idea that there will be no further consequences from the enforced celibacy.
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Post by snowman12345 on Jul 15, 2017 22:01:30 GMT -5
Rather than complain it would be better to sit your spouse down and explain that celibacy is no longer an option. With some teeth behind it. Communication without action achieved is a waste of time. So, saying you are not satisfied is not complaining? I beg to differ. Google it.
"com·plain
/kəmˈplān/
verb
gerund or present participle: complaining
express dissatisfaction or annoyance about a state of affairs or an event.
"local authorities complained that they lacked sufficient resources"
synonyms: protest, grumble, whine, bleat, carp, cavil, grouse, make a fuss; More
object, speak out, criticize, find fault;
informal kick up a fuss, raise a stink, bellyache, moan, snivel, beef, bitch, sound off, gripe, kvetch
"his dogs were always roaming until someone finally complained"
•state that one is suffering from (a pain or other symptom of illness). "her husband began to complain of headaches"
•state a grievance.
"they complained to the French government"
And I do agree and have made it clear that celibacy is not a option and I would leave. Guess what, she agreed to have sex and has not said no since. Albeit, it is bad sex and I still have an AP on the side. (be careful of what you ask for...) But, I complained and she listened. So, just because one decides to stay doesn't mean one should stop fighting for what they need. "Letting them off the hook" simply refers to giving in and letting them have the marriage they want to have - sexless - without "complaint". You can't take away my right to complain - no matter how much you complain about it. 
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