|
|
Post by beachguy on Jul 3, 2017 19:35:21 GMT -5
Allow me to summarize: You have told her, perhaps without explicitly using the D word, that you are so unhappy that you are ready to end the marriage. Her response is to tell you why you are unworthy of fucking, that it is all your fault.
And this is why all the preparation in the world would not have helped you. She is simply unwilling to wrap her arms around the idea that you and your needs count too. Been there, done that.
And even if she were to wrap her arms around it and be willing to FINALLY seriously address your needs, as is so common here, she waited until it is too late and you are totally checked out of the marriage. She would have waited until she killed every last vestige of romantic love before doing so.
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jul 3, 2017 19:38:04 GMT -5
The initiative is with you Brother bigbossfan . It stays with you for a week, then it is over to her to make the next choice. Then, in light of what she chooses, the onus of choice - and action - comes back to you. And, your resolve and state of preparedness will pretty much determine where this then goes. Likely, she will take an inert position, and in effect call you out, to see if you are bluffing or not. Less likely, she may claim to have seen the light and claim to be ready to "work on it". Possibly (pretty unlikely) is her choosing that on reflection it would be best to part company. These are the likely scenarios you will be confronted with. Your biggest risk here is you being unprepared when YOUR turn in the choice cycle comes up. If that happens (you dropping the ball when it's your choice) then you shred your cred, and that puts you backward by quite a ways. Good luck Brother, this is really going to test you. |
|
|
|
Post by orangepeel on Jul 4, 2017 23:45:14 GMT -5
I think I understand where you're coming from, having become a confirmed counter-refuser myself. (Not that I've ever been put in the position to actually refuse, mind.). Does it go something like this? You get refused. You feel hurt. It carries on. For years. Your self-esteem gets buffeted. Fuck this, you think, I've got my pride. I'll stop initiating. That helps with the pride thing, but it starts hurting in a different way: instead of hurting from being a victim, now you're hurting from acting contrary to your own nature and your own hopes. But you've got your pride so you carry on. To deal with this second type of pain, you section it off and cauterise it - you amputate (or at least disable) an emotional limb, but that limb includes your sexual response. So when you get your back scratched, it's awkward and difficult: there's no feeling in that zone.
That's what empathy and inference tell me. But even if I'm right, what's, as Baz would say with his brand of honest and positive fatalism, the use of that? Nothing in a sense, but st least you'll know the emotion you've got to own to stop driving yourself nuts and at least you've got your pride. Which is not nothing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jul 5, 2017 6:47:23 GMT -5
"Otherwise you are back in the hamster wheel, that 21 year endless loop you've been treading." It is a hamster wheel, a vicious Cycle - over and over and over again. Hamster on a viscious cylce?  |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jul 5, 2017 7:06:51 GMT -5
Have a goal in mind, don't just complain. If she asks you what you really need, have an answer already considered. A la "I want us to have a deeper, more intimate relationship..." I agree with A LOT on this thread, but let me highlight a few things: It is common wisdom among Army personnel that "the battle plan is important, but usually goes out the window about 10 minutes into the battle". The letter is really more of a trial run for what you want to say, and will make you more prepared for your next talk -- or The Talk -- but don't count on it being a "blueprint" for that talk. More importantly, don't count on it making things so clear that she immediately becomes the spouse you want. Really, there are two possible -- and I'd argue pretty much incompatible -- purposes of this sort of letter: 1) You are laying out your GRIEVANCES, basically paving the way for your exit. 2) You are earnestly trying to fix things, by bringing up examples of what hasn't worked for you in the past. The thing with Letter #2 is: if you REALLY want her to change, then your talk should probably not be a laundry list of all her war crimes of the PAST. Instead the letter/talk should be about the type of positive, constructive, mutually fulfilling marriage bond that you want to have in the FUTURE. Bring up examples from the past only where necessary to elucidate how you need things to be better in the future. (This is why I quoted DryCreek 's post: have an answer for what you need, not just what she has done wrong.) If you are earnestly still on the path to reconciliation, you may want to consider the assistance of a talk therapist. Maybe individual first, then marital. I DON'T agree with others here who suggest "read the whole letter to her and make sure she doesn't take you off track, or start to DARVO". After all, she is a person, and has a right to her opinions. You can't get back to marital harmony by ramming your opinion -- no matter how justified -- down her throat. I mention marriage therapy because a skilled therapist will help moderate the discussion of past hurts, future plans, etc. You might need one full session on each paragraph of your letter, as she WILL have comments, and she should probably get to reply. --- Here's one way I can tell I'm getting emotionally detached enough to move towards divorce: If I were to write Letter #1 now, it would be rather short: I've consciously let go of my grievances. They've been discussed plenty of times, with limited effect. I hold no hope that discussing them again will yield any benefit. If I were to write Letter #2 now, it likewise would be rather short: I've mostly given up on my suggestions for improvements. They've been discussed and some of them even tried, most with limited effect. I hold no hope that discussing them again will yield any benefit. |
|
|
|
Post by McRoomMate on Jul 5, 2017 7:48:27 GMT -5
"Otherwise you are back in the hamster wheel, that 21 year endless loop you've been treading." It is a hamster wheel, a vicious Cycle - over and over and over again. Hamster on a viscious cylce? I am stealing this. Hilarious. TY ! ! ! |
|
|
|
Post by orangepeel on Jul 5, 2017 12:47:23 GMT -5
It is common wisdom among Army personnel that "the battle plan is important, but usually goes out the window about 10 minutes into the battle". The letter is really more of a trial run for what you want to say, and will make you more prepared for your next talk -- or The Talk -- but don't count on it being a "blueprint" for that talk. Or as Mike Tyson puts it, "Everyone's got a gameplan until they get punched in the face" |
|
mas
New Member
Posts: 5 
|
Post by mas on Jul 6, 2017 3:07:56 GMT -5
Well, talk happened much more earlier than I expected it to. Wasn't as well prepared as I would have liked, but I know the message has been sent loud and clear. Was on the deck having a smoke with her this morning. And she says to me....so are you going to tell me what you're so pissed off and distant about? I said to myself, fuck it. Here we go. I laid all my cards on the table and as many have mentioned here, she came back with all the things I'm doing wrong. She tried to attack me verbally. I didn't let it work. I told her this is not about me. This is about her, and how over the last 22 years our sex life has been shit. I did not marry her to be her friend. I married her to be my wife. I married her to be intimate with. Without going into detail as I don't want to bore everyone (besides my sad-sack details have already been laid bare to you all), the conversation wrapped up like this: Her: So, what does this mean? Where do we go? Me: Take this week to decide what you want to do. Take this week to decide what you are prepared to do in order to make this work. Then I got up and I walked away. She spent the next two hours stomping around the house, slamming doors, basically acting like a spoiled child. She then came down to my man cave to say goodbye to the dogs and said to me "I guess you don't care that I'm leaving now" (For those that haven't followed my saga........shes going on vacation with her family for the week). My initial reaction was to say, if I didn't care I'd be long gone. But just decided to let her think and say what she wants. No sense in getting into a pissing argument. I said what it was that I needed to say. So the 1st hurdle is done now. While she's away this week I will make sure to see a lawyer and my bank about possiblities for the house. With mixed feelings I applaud you and envy your courage. |
|
cavu
New Member
Posts: 16
|
Post by cavu on Jul 7, 2017 0:13:40 GMT -5
First of, my apologies if this has been covered in another thread....I did some hunting around but couldn't find anything.
"So, lately I find myself that even at the slightest hint of the wife wanting to be amourous, I get instantly turned off. I alluded to this in one of my other posts yesterday, from time to time, she'll flash me her breasts and I carry on as though I don't notice, or I'll make a comment like "nice tits", and walk away. Reason being, typically I'd go over, give them a grope, a kiss and a suck perhaps, only to find myself even more sexually frustrated because nothing further would happen, despite promises that there would be something happening!
Last night as I'm getting myself a snack she comes up behind me, starts scratching my back. It's weird. I haven't felt this ever in our SM, and I'm wondering if maybe my eyes are being opened because of all the great stuff I'm reading here. Anyway, my reaction, was to pull away, and give her a little tap on the arm, kind of like you would a buddy. I don't want to say I was repulsed by it, but surprisingly enough, I felt VERY uncomfortable.
I got a text from her today saying "Hi Hon. How are you today? I wish you would talk to me and let me know why you are in such gloomy bad moods. Are you upset with me over something? Love you xo".
My response to her I'm sure will disappoint some here. I said to her "Just going though a valley again hon. Not you."
It took me a long time to come to this realization but you may no longer look at her as desirable but as a source of pain and rejection. Thus the "pulling away".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 8:37:42 GMT -5
Well played bigbossfan ! Her initial reaction tells you how much she respects your honesty/passion/desires/needs/goals. It will be interesting to hear what she says to you when she gets back. I would add that in my experience it will NOT be interesting to hear what she has to say. She knows what's the matter and you're both avoiding it. My wife used to ask when she damn well knew what was wrong but she was somehow hoping that wasn't it or, maybe more accurately, was hoping that showing any interest at all would be enough to bring us back together emotionally (i.e. reset). I stopped playing all those games a long time ago, there is no winner. My choice was to stay but it won't get better and she won't suddenly care on a permanent basis. The distancing gambit can be successful short term but it's no turnaround. |
|
bigbossfan
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Age Range: 51-55
|
Post by bigbossfan on Jul 13, 2017 6:23:27 GMT -5
Oh oh............I may have fucked up. I've been wanting to post some follow-up info but maybe out of embarrassment I haven't. Please don't be harsh.
Wife came home early from her trip with her folks. I was out on the deck, using my Jimmy Buffet Margaritaville drink maker for the first time..............and mixing the drinks way too strong. Typically I'm strictly a beer drinker, but ended up drinking the better part of a 40 ouncer of Rum..........so I'm sure most of you can see where this is going.
I'm feeling pretty tipsy when we start talking. I was doing a great job of enforcing my stance, wherein claiming that I won't stand for a SM anymore. That it'd been one excuse after the other and that I was no longer willing to stay in a SM. I recall at one point she said "So what, you figure if we divorce you'll get fucked all the time". To which I responded not in the least, but that I would be happier being by myself, rather than subject myself to the constant rejection by someone that I married, that I'm supposed to be intimate with and have an emotional connection to. The conversation was going quite well.
Shortly thereafter, company arrived, including my son, his buddy and my mother. Needless to say, conversation ended. Soon enough we were all on the deck getting absolutely smashed and things become quite foggy after this point. My wife who rarely drinks was actually laughing, drinking, having a great time. What a change! Everybody leaves and before I know it, we had sex that must have lasted for well over two hours. (Thank-you Viagara and alcohol!) This was literally the best sex that we had in the history of our marriage. I recall looking in her eyes and saying "This is what I need. This is what I want". Her response was "I know. I'm sorry".
So since that time she has been very very flirtatious at every drop of the hat. So much so, that I wonder if my "threat" of separation and divorce has finally woken her up for good. I won't get my hopes up. But I suppose after investing 21 years, I owe it to her and to the marriage to give it one last kick at the can. I'm typically an optimist and like to look on the bright side of things. Was this her way of manipulating me yet again by providing an "out of this world" reset sex session?? I don't know. Only time will tell.
All this to say, I'm still a little confused on where I'm at and where I'm going.
|
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Jul 13, 2017 6:42:05 GMT -5
Oh oh............I may have fucked up. I've been wanting to post some follow-up info but maybe out of embarrassment I haven't. Please don't be harsh.
Wife came home early from her trip with her folks. I was out on the deck, using my Jimmy Buffet Margaritaville drink maker for the first time..............and mixing the drinks way too strong. Typically I'm strictly a beer drinker, but ended up drinking the better part of a 40 ouncer of Rum..........so I'm sure most of you can see where this is going.
I'm feeling pretty tipsy when we start talking. I was doing a great job of enforcing my stance, wherein claiming that I won't stand for a SM anymore. That it'd been one excuse after the other and that I was no longer willing to stay in a SM. I recall at one point she said "So what, you figure if we divorce you'll get fucked all the time". To which I responded not in the least, but that I would be happier being by myself, rather than subject myself to the constant rejection by someone that I married, that I'm supposed to be intimate with and have an emotional connection to. The conversation was going quite well.
Shortly thereafter, company arrived, including my son, his buddy and my mother. Needless to say, conversation ended. Soon enough we were all on the deck getting absolutely smashed and things become quite foggy after this point. My wife who rarely drinks was actually laughing, drinking, having a great time. What a change! Everybody leaves and before I know it, we had sex that must have lasted for well over two hours. (Thank-you Viagara and alcohol!) This was literally the best sex that we had in the history of our marriage. I recall looking in her eyes and saying "This is what I need. This is what I want". Her response was "I know. I'm sorry".
So since that time she has been very very flirtatious at every drop of the hat. So much so, that I wonder if my "threat" of separation and divorce has finally woken her up for good. I won't get my hopes up. But I suppose after investing 21 years, I owe it to her and to the marriage to give it one last kick at the can. I'm typically an optimist and like to look on the bright side of things. Was this her way of manipulating me yet again by providing an "out of this world" reset sex session?? I don't know. Only time will tell.
All this to say, I'm still a little confused on where I'm at and where I'm going.
That's great! Nothing to be embarrassed about! I suggest Viagra and Margarita mix bi-weekly or weekly. It may have been a reset on her part but the fact that she's flirty is a good sign. I stand by and regret not playing the divorce card sooner in my deal. I just didn't believe in threatening with something you won't do. However a marriage with no sex is a marriage in crisis if both spouses aren't onboard. So I agree with threatening divorce whether you mean it or not. If that doesn't wake them up then at least you know where you stand and can make an informed decision. The key is doing this before you become a counter refuser because once that happens you can't put a fork in it. |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jul 13, 2017 6:52:33 GMT -5
Over the next month (probably not that long) you will find out whether this was re-set sex or not. And that, will then put the ball of choice back with you. At this moment, she has chosen to fuck you. What is unknown is whether this is a one off, or the first of a few fucks to come over the next little while, or the start of a long and sustained period of rooting. And that will take a bit of time to see. So what you have right now is a delay in the process. Which may - or may not - have been her intent. The initiative is hers at the moment. You are in a reactionary position - and right now, there is really not much to react too - bar one root. And a drunken root at that. Make sure you don't drop the ball here Brother bigbossfan . Don't let it float on. First chance you get, you have to get the initiative back. |
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jul 13, 2017 7:01:15 GMT -5
Please consider taking baza's advice in other areas of your marriage as well. It's never just the sex. Continue to level the playing field, daily, hourly.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 13, 2017 7:09:14 GMT -5
Hey man.
I think you holding yourself to account by posting here says something. That is, that you are somewhat sceptical which I think is healthy.
So you took the sex. Good on you.
But one battle victory does not win the war.
Put this into context. Sounds like she was the one who initiated not you. You were under the influence. This took place when the big D word was being thrown out. It had been awhile.
I say proceed with caution. If this is a turn around, you will feel it in you heart of hearts. Likewise if it turns out to be reset sex.
All the best.
|
|
