bigbossfan
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Age Range: 51-55
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Post by bigbossfan on Jun 30, 2017 6:56:13 GMT -5
I am so THANKFUL for finding this forum. You are all giving me so much food for thought.
I'm taking next week off while she is away and have plans to go to my bank and talk to someone there to see my options about the house. I know my wife can't afford to keep it, so I'm going to inquire about getting a second mortgage on the home and potentially buying her out. I don't even know if this is possible. My intent if it works out is to offer her half of the equity we've built into the home to have her walk away, or if her preference is to sell it, so be it. Home can be replaced.
As for any legal consultation, I don't really think it's necessary at this point. She spent 30 years as a Legal Assistant, so chances are I'll get my ass handed to me anyway. If indeed separation/divorce is the road ultimately taken, I'm sure that it will be a straight forward process as the kids are grown and gone, she has a job (so no worry about Alimony), we have our own credit cards, vehicle loans etc etc. Only thing that would be in contention is the home.
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Post by baza on Jun 30, 2017 7:11:00 GMT -5
Brother bigbossfan . Presumably you are not a lawyer and presumably you do not know the divorce rules chapter and verse in your jurisdiction. You might have some vague idea of what your respective rights (and obligations) might be in such a scenario, or you might not know anything of such legalities. What on earth would be the downside for you in consulting a lawyer ? |
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bigbossfan
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by bigbossfan on Jun 30, 2017 7:47:15 GMT -5
$$$$$$$$
No sense in spending money on a lawyer until I know whats going to happen. IMHO
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 30, 2017 7:49:56 GMT -5
See a lawyer for a free consult on your week off, in addition to the bank visit. You need a primer on divorce of your own. Don't assume you already know. Just go ask instead.
To her ears, hearing it: "spineless threat from him, just like all of these talks" plus "oh but this time he saw the banker" plus "oh shit - he met with a lawyer?!"
I felt like my final could would have gone badly, much worse than it did, except for that piece of ammo. I had already seen a lawyer. I knew, on my own, without relying on his info, how it would go. He couldn't "scare me off" the divorce word because I had already gathered my own outside info.
I understand the cagey reply on the text. I think it was smart. At certain points, you don't want to tip your hands until things are lined up & truly ready.
I hope your plan comes together well!
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Post by McRoomMate on Jun 30, 2017 9:25:09 GMT -5
Your wife has spent over 20 years training you not to want her. She has succeeded, brilliantly. It really is as simple as that. We are not dogs. Love is perishable. Chronic refusal is a love killer. In the meantime, what do you expect to accomplish if you give her "one last chance"? You know that for over 20 years she has given you just enough sex to keep you in the game. If you give her one more chance you will get one more reset. But nothing more than that. Any "one last chance" talk is nothing more than the ultimate form of coercion. From her perspective it is probably marital rape. And perhaps she is right. And that is why our situations are hopeless. You cannot threaten your way into your wife wanting you. And as you get further into counter-refusal land, which you will with each cycle now, the whole thing becomes quite pointless. Your wife's text is quite disingenuous. She says "I wish you would talk to me and let me know why you are in such gloomy bad moods. Are you upset with me over something? ". But the last thing she wants to talk about is your need for sex and intimacy. You've been fighting over this for 20 years and each fight is the same. She doesn't want to talk about it, except to tell you why you are unworthy of fucking. Every attempt to talk about your needs is immediately countered with a demand to talk about ONLY her needs. Been there done that. So the proper response to her text might have been something like "you know damned well why I'm unhappy, I've been increasingly unhappy for 21 years but you have always refused to validate my needs and concerns." If you are not willing to walk out without discussion, then the only way I can see that might possibly work is to simply refuse to talk about her needs. Because, after all, you are the one about to walk out, not her. You are the unhappy one. You would have to place the burden of maintaining the marriage squarely on her. It is her job to convince you why you shouldn't leave. And yet another counter-recitation of her needs is not going to convince you. If you can get her to get that, then you might have a fighting chance. Otherwise you are back in the hamster wheel, that 21 year endless loop you've been treading. The Myth and Never Ending Fairy Tale of the "One Last Chance" . . . perfect. "Love is perishable" - Amen to that. "Otherwise you are back in the hamster wheel, that 21 year endless loop you've been treading." It is a hamster wheel, a vicious Cycle - over and over and over again. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 9:55:51 GMT -5
Oh, believe me, I've mentioned it MANY times. But nothing has changed. Well, I suggested that you keep on telling her so she will never be able to say that she had no idea. My refuser told me this even though I told her at least 12 times over the last 6 years of celibacy. I did not tell her because the few times I did, she would verbally attack me. |
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Post by beachguy on Jun 30, 2017 10:00:05 GMT -5
Oh, believe me, I've mentioned it MANY times. But nothing has changed. Well, I suggested that you keep on telling her so she will never be able to say that she had no idea. My refuser told me this even though I told her at least 12 times over the last 6 years of celibacy. I did not tell her because the few times I did, she would verbally attack me. Typical DARVO strategy |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 30, 2017 13:09:38 GMT -5
Letters are good for focusing one's own thinking and for when things get difficult and your resolve to fix your own situation begins to drift and get muddied. I caution against framing what comes after the letter as a "follow-up", or framing the letter as doing anything of any sort to one's partner. A letter isn't going to knock anyone off a pedestal, nor level the playing field. All a letter does to the other person is indicate that receiving an upsetting letter once in a while is going to be the biggest consequence of continuing inauthentically to portray oneself as a married couple. That's totally a manageable consequence compared to the alternatives: ending the appearance of the marriage and all that entails, or redefining the marriage such that you are openly (at least with each other) polyamorous. I recall writing so many of these, as I tried to find a positive or wise enough epitaph for our relationship - some kind of final word that would create a lockedtight narrative portraying me as the "Good guy" in our circles. A couple years out of the fog, I realize the folly of this, as time and distance has made me realize that this really doesn't matter much, and nobody - not neighbours or mutual friends really wants to get anywhere near the stink and flies clouding around the corpse of our relationship. And as far as I can tell, I don't think anyone has made a decision to be friends with me or with her based on their notions of what must have happened. Unfortunately, warning of a consequence doesn't make your partner more hot for you. Divorce is a significant consequence that springs from that well, and it might feel right that she be warned that it is a possible result. But, surely she knows that already, just as you do. Sending a letter doesn't make it real. Only making it real, makes it real. The only weapon you have in this fight is a self destruct button.
'It became necessary to destroy the town to save it' |
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jul 1, 2017 7:19:41 GMT -5
THE INFAMOUS LETTERS!!!!
apocrypha SAID: I recall writing so many of these, as I tried to find a positive or wise enough epitaph for our relationship - some kind of final word that would create a locked tight narrative portraying me as the "Good guy" in our circles. A couple years out of the fog, I realize the folly of this, as time and distance has made me realize that this really doesn't matter much, and nobody - not neighbours or mutual friends really wants to get anywhere near the stink and flies clouding around the corpse of our relationship. And as far as I can tell, I don't think anyone has made a decision to be friends with me or with her based on their notions of what must have happened. Unfortunately, warning of a consequence doesn't make your partner more hot for you.
apocrypha - SIMPLY GENIUS!! ..... bigbossfan - I would heed these comments as pure fact
Letters written - good because they get YOUR thinking clear. So YOU to take action without mind fog. They help you become a verbal super star. Write it but ponder if you deliver it other than verbally. I just read where she was a legal assistant for 30 years. I now would put nothing in writing to her. Written words seem to always haunt.
BTW, he who sees lawyer first has an advantage. Especially depending on asset levels. Just go to know your position is all. When you "talk" uh, I hate that word now, with her it is really powerful for her to know you ARE in CHARGE and ARE in control, not her. Knowing you know how to and are getting your ducks in a row, deflates her ego and power.
Never play from defense in this situation. . NOT that you want to fight to a bitter end over stuff. For me if the D happens, I am fine with the challenge of doing my own thing my way in my place with my kids. If it costs, so be it, I can work. I can buy furniture and dishes - stuff I like actually. Gets kind of exciting thinking about it now.
Spend the $$$ on a consult, makes no difference, she ends up paying half anyway if D happens. And you are better informed.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jul 1, 2017 7:29:59 GMT -5
$$$$$$$$ No sense in spending money on a lawyer until I know whats going to happen. IMHO That's our weakness, unsure of what's going to happen. But you can cause the effect. You can know what will happen. There are only two outcomes, plan for each equally. So you actually DO know. I will add, that we all know the D has been avoided all these years for many reasons - it's not so easy. Since your kids are older, you do have to consider the gatherings, grandkids, etc. So keeping things amicable and maintaining high ground will help you maintain the respect from all. You don't want to be the bad guy. This is why the letter can hurt you if delivered, it can be kept and used against you when convenient. Write, it, know it, verbalize it BUT really consider actually delivering it. Again apocypha addressed this perfectly below. |
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Post by solodriver on Jul 1, 2017 21:58:08 GMT -5
... from time to time, she'll flash me her breasts and I carry on as though I don't notice, or I'll make a comment like "nice tits", and walk away. Reason being, typically I'd go over, give them a grope, a kiss and a suck perhaps, only to find myself even more sexually frustrated because nothing further would happen, despite promises that there would be something happening!
My wife won't flash me but she will run from the bathroom to the bedroom naked so I won't see her. If I were to look, or touch her when she is naked she tells me to please stop doing that and quit acting like a teenager.
After she told me that a few years ago, I decided she would never have to worry about that happening with me ever again! Because IT WON'T!! Even if she begs me, which I don't think I have to worry about lol.
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Post by ironhamster on Jul 2, 2017 13:15:54 GMT -5
I've never turned her down, and maybe that is a mistake. All it amounts to is bragging rights that I've never treated her like she's treated me.
That being said, I make it a point never to beg, never to ask, never to hint. I get no emotional boost from reset sex. None. I just had my first extramarital kiss this week, and it, alone, was more gratifying than every instance of the last decade of reset sex combined.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 2, 2017 14:17:54 GMT -5
However, avoid argument drift in the actual conversation. I just read about this today in the GHblog. I'm not sure of the best way to stay on target, but having something written down (in outline form? step form?) to use to keep the discussion focused on your concerns would be a good idea. Anybody have any thoughts on that? Someone trained in debate can probably offer better technique, but here's my $.02 of practical advice... Bullet points / speaking notes, not prose, unless you're planning to read it like a script. Larger print with plenty of white space so you can quickly re-find your spot. More is not better. They will tune you out after 1-2 points (and/or won't remember more than 2). Be concise, stick to a couple key points, open with those points, and make them count. Expand on them after that, if you get that far. Phrases like "I feel..." or "When you do X, it makes me feel..." are much harder to argue against because nobody can dispute how you feel. What's important is how you perceive what they're doing, and how it impacts you. If you approach it instead as "You do X and Y...", it invites a defense and an argument that derails your point. Have a goal in mind, don't just complain. If she asks you what you really need, have an answer already considered. A la "I want us to have a deeper, more intimate relationship..." Watch your terms. If what you want is more intimacy, say "intimacy" not "sex". If she says "sex", remind her that you're talking about intimacy, and sex is just a part of that. (If you don't, she'll leave thinking "he just wants more sex".) And bigbossfan, seriously, go have a consultation with an attorney. It will cost you some time, and might cost as much as $250 (though free in many locales). It will give you confidence in your options, so you are prepared if the discussion goes a direction you didn't expect; otherwise, you'll have to backpedal and suspend the discussion while you go get advice. If she goes aggressive and starts spewing invalid claims, you'll have solid facts to douse her and steer back to a realistic conversation. I will observe that as many as 50% of the cases here where someone has prepared notes for The Talk, that conversation happened spontaneously ahead of schedule, notes were not available for reference, and the discussion did not follow a script. baza probably has better memory & stats on this. Being prepared in facts and thinking proved to be the essential part of leaving that discussion productively instead of just fighting. FWIW. |
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bigbossfan
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by bigbossfan on Jul 3, 2017 3:18:30 GMT -5
Thanks for all the advice everyone. Sincerely appreciated.
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bigbossfan
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by bigbossfan on Jul 3, 2017 13:55:57 GMT -5
Well, talk happened much more earlier than I expected it to. Wasn't as well prepared as I would have liked, but I know the message has been sent loud and clear. Was on the deck having a smoke with her this morning. And she says to me....so are you going to tell me what you're so pissed off and distant about? I said to myself, fuck it. Here we go.
I laid all my cards on the table and as many have mentioned here, she came back with all the things I'm doing wrong. She tried to attack me verbally. I didn't let it work. I told her this is not about me. This is about her, and how over the last 22 years our sex life has been shit. I did not marry her to be her friend. I married her to be my wife. I married her to be intimate with. Without going into detail as I don't want to bore everyone (besides my sad-sack details have already been laid bare to you all), the conversation wrapped up like this:
Her: So, what does this mean? Where do we go?
Me: Take this week to decide what you want to do. Take this week to decide what you are prepared to do in order to make this work.
Then I got up and I walked away. She spent the next two hours stomping around the house, slamming doors, basically acting like a spoiled child. She then came down to my man cave to say goodbye to the dogs and said to me "I guess you don't care that I'm leaving now" (For those that haven't followed my saga........shes going on vacation with her family for the week). My initial reaction was to say, if I didn't care I'd be long gone. But just decided to let her think and say what she wants. No sense in getting into a pissing argument. I said what it was that I needed to say.
So the 1st hurdle is done now. While she's away this week I will make sure to see a lawyer and my bank about possiblities for the house.
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