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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 7:33:30 GMT -5
Okay, I'm just curious about something.
Yes, I am the refuser in my relationship and as I was replying to another post someone said I have the power to initiate sex.
While it may seem that way, it's not. I know my H isn't a mind reader, yet in the past few years there have been times when I do make the first move and it's backfired.
Now, I don't know if it's because I haven't shown as much interest in sex as H has or what, but whenever I have tried to it hasn't been successful.
For me, sex is more than just sex. I want to feel the connection, to feel desired, it feel intimate. And before you guys say anything YES I HAVE TOLD HIM THIS.
Yet it doesn't seem to matter to him. When he's horny he just wants sex. Plain and simple. True there are times I feel the same, but not many.
So explain to me how I have the power?
Several people have mentioned the love languages and I can tell you right now, getting my H to read the book, let alone take the quiz more than likely won't happen. He'll just roll his eyes and tune me out.
A friend of ours said something to him once about tying to reconnect and he blew them off. This is a friend who knows both of us and has offered advice to help. I've listened and he hasn't.
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Post by h on Jun 15, 2017 7:41:04 GMT -5
Not knowing the full details of his behaviors, feelings, and motivation makes it hard to say. Maybe he has gotten sick of your refusing and become avoidant towards sex. Maybe it's counter refusal coming back at you.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 7:45:22 GMT -5
Not knowing the full details of his behaviors, feelings, and motivation makes it hard to say. Maybe he has gotten sick of your refusing and become avoidant towards sex. Maybe it's counter refusal coming back at you. That could be except these issues have been going on even before I started having issues. Yet I can't talk to him about it because he shuts down. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 15, 2017 7:58:11 GMT -5
You do speak quite vaguely. Much like my refuser when she commits DARVO and is reversing everything. The only concrete fact is....? well there aren't any. The closest was "it more than likely won't happen" and what you assume he will do.
Instead of generalities like "I make the first move" be specific, give some examples, and you will receive much better advice.
For example, there may have been "first moves" on my wife's part about a number of topics that went right past me. Again ,I am not a mind reader. While other men would say, "what does that mean? what does she expect from you? Are you supposed to ask a ton more questions until you finally get it right? Who want's to play these manipulative games?"
Then there are ladies who would say," exactly my H does the same thing! They just don't get it." Happily shifting the blame.
Facts, details, specifics, lay your cards on the table!
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 8:07:48 GMT -5
You do speak quite vaguely. Much like my refuser when she commits DARVO and is reversing everything. The only concrete fact is....? well there aren't any. The closest was "it more than likely won't happen" and what you assume he will do. Instead of generalities like "I make the first move" be specific, give some examples, and you will receive much better advice. For example, there may have been "first moves" on my wife's part about a number of topics that went right past me. Again I am not a mind reader. While other men would say, "what does that mean? what does she expect from you? Are you supposed to ask a ton more questions until you finally get it right? Who want's to play these manipulative games? Then there are ladies who would say," exactly my H does the same thing! They just don't get it. Happily shifting the blame." Facts, details, specifics, lay your cards on the table! Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to place blame here it's just after 16 yrs of trying over and over to improve things and him refusing me it's confusing for me. I have been very specific on what I'm looking for. Ex: "I want us to be more affectionate, like we used to be. Holding hands, cuddling, that kind of thing." H: " come on, I cuddle. I hold your hand." Me: " you don't cuddle, you just grab my tits, butt or between my legs. And in bed you just push your dick against me." H: "what's the difference?" And yes, this was an actual discussion we had about five months ago! So again, explain how I am supposed to fix this? |
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Post by rdp62 on Jun 15, 2017 8:16:50 GMT -5
Okay, I'm just curious about something. Yes, I am the refuser in my relationship and as I was replying to another post someone said I have the power to initiate sex. While it may seem that way, it's not. I know my H isn't a mind reader, yet in the past few years there have been times when I do make the first move and it's backfired. Now, I don't know if it's because I haven't shown as much interest in sex as H has or what, but whenever I have tried to it hasn't been successful. For me, sex is more than just sex. I want to feel the connection, to feel desired, it feel intimate. And before you guys say anything YES I HAVE TOLD HIM THIS. Yet it doesn't seem to matter to him. When he's horny he just wants sex. Plain and simple. True there are times I feel the same, but not many. So explain to me how I have the power? Several people have mentioned the love languages and I can tell you right now, getting my H to read the book, let alone take the quiz more than likely won't happen. He'll just roll his eyes and tune me out. A friend of ours said something to him once about tying to reconnect and he blew them off. This is a friend who knows both of us and has offered advice to help. I've listened and he hasn't. Same here, do a lot if us feel this way the intimacy much more than sex or just as important? and yes I am a guy but extenuating circumstances. Below maybe change need for feel. Need to feel intimate. For me, sex is more than just sex. I want to feel the connection, to feel desired, it feel intimate. And before you guys say anything YES I HAVE TOLD HIM THIS. |
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Jun 15, 2017 8:30:11 GMT -5
You will never get a refuser to read any book that has anything to do with relationships. You want to know why? Because that would acknowledge there is a problem. I offered my wife a deal years ago, I handed her a copy of The Sex Starved Marriage and said "Please just read the first page, if you don't think that is our relationship she is talking about I will throw the book away and never bring it up again." Her response "I'm not reading anything in THAT book!" Nice.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 8:32:00 GMT -5
You will never get a refuser to read any book that has anything to do with relationships. You want to know why? Because that would acknowledge there is a problem. I offered my wife a deal years ago, I handed her a copy of The Sex Starved Marriage and said "Please just read the first page, if you don't think that is our relationship she is talking about I will throw the book away and never bring it up again." Her response "I'm not reading anything in THAT book!" Nice. So, since I'm the refuser you're saying I wouldn't read that? Newsflash, I actually HAVE that book. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 15, 2017 8:35:44 GMT -5
You will now (most likely ) get better answers from others. I would like to say that I went through some episodes similar to this with my wife. She would occasionally ask me to "hold her hand when we walked from the car to church. Open the car door for her when we were going to a movie. Pull her chair our for her at a restaurant, etc...
I would then have to explain to her. We sit at a booth at a restaurant, there is no chair, or your daddy is with us he sits next to you, I don't even get to reach the chair. You get out of the car before I have a chance to even get to the other side. You also said, over 12 years ago, "we can't afford to eat out anymore". We've been pushing strollers, walking kids by the hands for years, we now ride in separate cars, you also walk way to slow for me, and THE MOST IMPORTANT, when we are together at home, when was the last time you came to bed naked? Gave me a passionate kiss, ever touched my dick?
So....Hell no I don't want to hold your hand. It's all about control, and denial and reversing the blame.
Let me throw this out there. Is your H used to following orders? Are they very specific? Do you give him specifics or generalities? Do you give him examples? Like, "take me here for dinner tonight, and when we get home I will make it worth your while" you light the candles, you put on the music, you make a hotel reservation, you send the kids to a friends house, you redirect his hands to your hair, Hand him a hair brush, your face, ask him to kiss it all over, you ask for longer kisses, you ask him to stroke your back first, then take your clothes off, ask him to kiss your whole body, tell him not to fall asleep directly afterwards, lets sit on the couch naked together afterwards wrapped in a blanket, lets go out and look at the stars after having sex etc...
Does he need straight out orders on your expectations about intimacy?
(I offered all these things to my W. Only to be rejected)
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 8:48:18 GMT -5
You will now (most likely ) get better answers from others. I would like to say that I went through some episodes similar to this with my wife. She would occasionally ask me to "hold her hand when we walked from the car to church. Open the car door for her when we were going to a movie. Pull her chair our for her at a restaurant, etc... I would then have to explain to her. We sit at a booth at a restaurant, there is no chair, or your daddy is with us he sits next to you, I don't even get to reach the chair. You get out of the car before I have a chance to even get to the other side. You also said, over 12 years ago, "we can't afford to eat out anymore". We've been pushing strollers, walking kids by the hands for years, we now ride in separate cars, you also walk way to slow for me, and THE MOST IMPORTANT, when we are together at home, when was the last time you came to bed naked? Gave me a passionate kiss, ever touched my dick? So....Hell no I don't want to hold your hand. It's all about control, and denial and reversing the blame. Let me throw this out there. Is your H used to following orders? Are they very specific? Do you give him specifics or generalities? Do you give him examples? Like, "take me here for dinner tonight, and when we get home I will make it worth your while" you light the candles, you put on the music, you make a hotel reservation, you send the kids to a friends house, you redirect his hands to your hair, Hand him a hair brush, your face, ask him to kiss it all over, you ask for longer kisses, you ask him to stroke your back first, then take your clothes off, ask him to kiss your whole body, tell him not to fall asleep directly afterwards, lets sit on the couch naked together afterwards wrapped in a blanket, lets go out and look at the stars after having sex etc... (I offered all these things to my W. Only to be rejected) Yes my husband follows direction, hell he was a Marine plus he's also used to giving them having been in a Boss position in both the Marines and his current job. Yes I have been specific in what I want. Telling him I want him to just hold me. That I like when he does this or that during sex and I want more of that or more of this. As for us doing things just us, that's not easy. We live in a small town no where near family. Yes our kids are 14 & 12 and can stay by themselves should we want to go out to dinner, but the town we live in has NO nightlife. There are more Mexican restaurants than anything else and only two are worth going out to. Believe me, I would love to have an actual DATE night. Go somewhere, talk, laugh, eat. Then come home, cuddle, touch, tease, then either make love or have hot sweaty monkey sex. I've told him this. He treats it like a chore rather than having fun with it. I've even gone as far as trying to do this at home with the kids there! Make his favorite meal, put on a little black dress, after dinner I did the dishes then curled up on his lap. What did I get? A thanks for dinner and a few minutes of holding. And this was BEFORE I started struggling with my sex drive. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 15, 2017 8:58:45 GMT -5
You do speak quite vaguely. Much like my refuser when she commits DARVO and is reversing everything. The only concrete fact is....? well there aren't any. The closest was "it more than likely won't happen" and what you assume he will do. Instead of generalities like "I make the first move" be specific, give some examples, and you will receive much better advice. For example, there may have been "first moves" on my wife's part about a number of topics that went right past me. Again I am not a mind reader. While other men would say, "what does that mean? what does she expect from you? Are you supposed to ask a ton more questions until you finally get it right? Who want's to play these manipulative games? Then there are ladies who would say," exactly my H does the same thing! They just don't get it. Happily shifting the blame." Facts, details, specifics, lay your cards on the table! Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to place blame here it's just after 16 yrs of trying over and over to improve things and him refusing me it's confusing for me. I have been very specific on what I'm looking for. Ex: "I want us to be more affectionate, like we used to be. Holding hands, cuddling, that kind of thing." H: " come on, I cuddle. I hold your hand." Me: " you don't cuddle, you just grab my tits, butt or between my legs. And in bed you just push your dick against me." H: "what's the difference?" And yes, this was an actual discussion we had about five months ago! So again, explain how I am supposed to fix this? Okay... he asked "what's the difference? He may honestly not understand. Do you then clam up. Like you did on this post? Walking away blaming him for all of it? Honestly... (I say this with a smile) If my wife had grabbed my chest, my butt, or between my legs, and in bed had pushed her boobs into my face, there would be constant action! So.. again it sounds like he answered your question, with his question, "what's the difference?" Did he get an answer? A solid concrete example? Done multiple times? Then you can honestly say, " I went above and beyond, I did more than my fair share". There are woman on here who throw there naked bodies at their men, give them BJ's and get nothing in return. Now that's a "how do I fix this situation!" |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 9:10:55 GMT -5
Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to place blame here it's just after 16 yrs of trying over and over to improve things and him refusing me it's confusing for me. I have been very specific on what I'm looking for. Ex: "I want us to be more affectionate, like we used to be. Holding hands, cuddling, that kind of thing." H: " come on, I cuddle. I hold your hand." Me: " you don't cuddle, you just grab my tits, butt or between my legs. And in bed you just push your dick against me." H: "what's the difference?" And yes, this was an actual discussion we had about five months ago! So again, explain how I am supposed to fix this? Okay... he asked "what's the difference? He may honestly not understand. Do you then clam up. Like you did on this post? Walking away blaming him for all of it? Honestly... (I say this with a smile) If my wife had grabbed my chest, my butt, or between my legs, and in bed had pushed her boobs into my face, there would be constant action! So.. again it sounds like he answered your question, with his question, "what's the difference?" Did he get an answer? A solid concrete example? Done multiple times? Then you can honestly say, " I went above and beyond, I did more than my fair share". There are woman on here who throw there naked bodies at their men, give them BJ's and get nothing in return. Now that's a "how do I fix this situation!" Yes I gave him an answer. I told him the difference was that cuddling means you just hold me, not trying to screw. I've told him that when he just grabs me that way it makes me feel like I should be charging you or something. It's frustrating when I am blunt to what I want yet he makes me feel like stupid for speaking my mind and now I'm feeling that way again. Don't even know why I posted this stupid thread. |
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Post by shamwow on Jun 15, 2017 9:16:31 GMT -5
You do speak quite vaguely. Much like my refuser when she commits DARVO and is reversing everything. The only concrete fact is....? well there aren't any. The closest was "it more than likely won't happen" and what you assume he will do. Instead of generalities like "I make the first move" be specific, give some examples, and you will receive much better advice. For example, there may have been "first moves" on my wife's part about a number of topics that went right past me. Again I am not a mind reader. While other men would say, "what does that mean? what does she expect from you? Are you supposed to ask a ton more questions until you finally get it right? Who want's to play these manipulative games? Then there are ladies who would say," exactly my H does the same thing! They just don't get it. Happily shifting the blame." Facts, details, specifics, lay your cards on the table! Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to place blame here it's just after 16 yrs of trying over and over to improve things and him refusing me it's confusing for me. I have been very specific on what I'm looking for. Ex: "I want us to be more affectionate, like we used to be. Holding hands, cuddling, that kind of thing." H: " come on, I cuddle. I hold your hand." Me: " you don't cuddle, you just grab my tits, butt or between my legs. And in bed you just push your dick against me." H: "what's the difference?" And yes, this was an actual discussion we had about five months ago! So again, explain how I am supposed to fix this? Perhaps YOU start by holding HIS hand or sitting next to him on the couch and snuggling close. When he grabs your tits / ass / crotch? Gently move his hand to where you want it to go (maybe on your thigh or around your waist) and whisper in his ear something like "shhhh...that's coming...one step at a time". But when you say that, you MUST FOLLOW THROUGH. If you don't? You will have one (justifiably) frustrated / pissed off man on your hands. There is an inverse correlation between how long / how many times a man has been refused and how much he really gives a shit about his refuser's pleasure. Right now, I'm guessing he doesn't give a flying fuck and isn't going to invest anything emotionally just to get smacked down again. Bear in mind, this is from a refused guy's perspective. You might not get it / agree since you're on the other side of the fence. However, at this point, I would suggest the onus is on you. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 15, 2017 9:26:52 GMT -5
You will now (most likely ) get better answers from others. I would like to say that I went through some episodes similar to this with my wife. She would occasionally ask me to "hold her hand when we walked from the car to church. Open the car door for her when we were going to a movie. Pull her chair our for her at a restaurant, etc... I would then have to explain to her. We sit at a booth at a restaurant, there is no chair, or your daddy is with us he sits next to you, I don't even get to reach the chair. You get out of the car before I have a chance to even get to the other side. You also said, over 12 years ago, "we can't afford to eat out anymore". We've been pushing strollers, walking kids by the hands for years, we now ride in separate cars, you also walk way to slow for me, and THE MOST IMPORTANT, when we are together at home, when was the last time you came to bed naked? Gave me a passionate kiss, ever touched my dick? So....Hell no I don't want to hold your hand. It's all about control, and denial and reversing the blame. Let me throw this out there. Is your H used to following orders? Are they very specific? Do you give him specifics or generalities? Do you give him examples? Like, "take me here for dinner tonight, and when we get home I will make it worth your while" you light the candles, you put on the music, you make a hotel reservation, you send the kids to a friends house, you redirect his hands to your hair, Hand him a hair brush, your face, ask him to kiss it all over, you ask for longer kisses, you ask him to stroke your back first, then take your clothes off, ask him to kiss your whole body, tell him not to fall asleep directly afterwards, lets sit on the couch naked together afterwards wrapped in a blanket, lets go out and look at the stars after having sex etc... (I offered all these things to my W. Only to be rejected) Yes my husband follows direction, hell he was a Marine plus he's also used to giving them having been in a Boss position in both the Marines and his current job. Yes I have been specific in what I want. Telling him I want him to just hold me. That I like when he does this or that during sex and I want more of that or more of this. As for us doing things just us, that's not easy. We live in a small town no where near family. Yes our kids are 14 & 12 and can stay by themselves should we want to go out to dinner, but the town we live in has NO nightlife. There are more Mexican restaurants than anything else and only two are worth going out to. Believe me, I would love to have an actual DATE night. Go somewhere, talk, laugh, eat. Then come home, cuddle, touch, tease, then either make love or have hot sweaty monkey sex. I've told him this. He treats it like a chore rather than having fun with it. I've even gone as far as trying to do this at home with the kids there! Make his favorite meal, put on a little black dress, after dinner I did the dishes then curled up on his lap. What did I get? A thanks for dinner and a few minutes of holding. And this was BEFORE I started struggling with my sex drive. I really don't see you as a refuser. I see you married to a man you are not compatible with sexually or emotionally. It seems like all he wants is to get off. Fuck that! He has a hand, actually two of them that he can enjoy for the rest of his life or pay a hooker. The bottom line is - he doesn't meet your needs. He doesn't make you WANT to have sex with him. Shit doesn't he want a challenge? A chase? Some anticipation? Build up leading to the deed? Who the hell wants to be just a fuck hole for a man? Your husband is clueless!! Honestly I would tell him whether you mean it or not that he better figure out how to romance you if he wants to get in your pants again. If not he could romance women on Tinder and write you a check for child support and alimony each month. He better wake up. Nobody is obligated to stay in a marriage. I reccomend you scare him, see if he changes, if he doesn't then you need to figure out what you want. There are men out there that enjoy romance. Find your happiness. |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 15, 2017 9:33:05 GMT -5
Okay. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to place blame here it's just after 16 yrs of trying over and over to improve things and him refusing me it's confusing for me. I have been very specific on what I'm looking for. Ex: "I want us to be more affectionate, like we used to be. Holding hands, cuddling, that kind of thing." H: " come on, I cuddle. I hold your hand." Me: " you don't cuddle, you just grab my tits, butt or between my legs. And in bed you just push your dick against me." H: "what's the difference?" And yes, this was an actual discussion we had about five months ago! So again, explain how I am supposed to fix this? Perhaps YOU start by holding HIS hand or sitting next to him on the couch and snuggling close. When he grabs your tits / ass / crotch? Gently move his hand to where you want it to go (maybe on your thigh or around your waist) and whisper in his ear something like "shhhh...that's coming...one step at a time". But when you say that, you MUST FOLLOW THROUGH. If you don't? You will have one (justifiably) frustrated / pissed off man on your hands. There is an inverse correlation between how long / how many times a man has been refused and how much he really gives a shit about his refuser's pleasure. Right now, I'm guessing he doesn't give a flying fuck and isn't going to invest anything emotionally just to get smacked down again. Bear in mind, this is from a refused guy's perspective. You might not get it / agree since you're on the other side of the fence. However, at this point, I would suggest the onus is on you. I have been the one to initiate the cuddling. When we've gone on long car trips, walking through the mall when we head to the nearest city(2 he's away) I reach out to him. Even on our two week vacation last year at Grand Teton I did this. What happened? Without even looking at me, he'll squeeze my hand once or twice then let go. This is his pattern and has been since about year 2 of our marriage. But it wasn't always that way and I have told him that. |
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