A question for religious people....

I like your medical analogy. That made the most sense to me of any of the explanations.

Most religions seem to me to have a lot of anti-sex rules. The no premarital sex rule is bad - what about people who never get married? Or people who marry later in life? Do they have to go for years thinking they're undesirable, just because nobody will marry them?

The anti-gay rule is bad. As long as everything is consensual, why does it matter what the genders of the people are? What's the logic? If it's because it takes a male and a female to make a baby - what about straight couples who are infertile? Are they supposed to remain celibate? If not - how are they any different from a gay couple (at least in terms of fertility)?

The anti-outsourcing rule is (IMHO, and in general) a good one. Why would you marry a person (with the usual understanding of monogamy and a lifelong relationship) if you already did not take those promises seriously? If you doubt you can keep the promises, IMHO it's better not to marry that person.

But most of the people here got into their marriage intending it to be forever and intending it to be monogamous - and then things went south. If God wants people in a SM to just go on living that way - then quite honestly, if I believed that, I would be fucking furious at God, and would see no good reason to keep on trusting him as far as I could throw him.

It seems I have opened a can of worms here. Again, I apologize if I'm offending people.

But is that only if they have achieved the miracle of getting a man who is also Christian and also likes sex, to marry them?

It just seems like a lot of hoops to have to jump through in order to have sex.

I like that you are asking questions! they are all good questions! It shows that you have a thirst for knowledge and are searching for answers between right and wrong, good and evil, freedom to make mistakes and learn from them. That's what I go to church for, those are the kind of lessons I want to learn from the pulpit (my church doesn't even have one).

As far as your salvation and having good sex? The two have nothing to do with each other.

Having good sex: May her breasts satisfy you ALWAYS. The two joined together and became one flesh, they were both naked and not ashamed,there is no fear in love, etc... I like that last one especially. There is no fear in love. There's a lot of fear involved, in staying in a SM! Is that love? More reason to end a failed marriage.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All will continue to sin. Jesus dyed for your sins. That is your salvation. God loves you enough to give you the freedom to accept that gift. Don't be fooled, it comes with trials and tribulations, pain and suffering, or like most things it would hold no value on this earth without a price. It also can offer you so many answers to life's questions, while showing you that some things are beyond our scope our reach. That God's ways are not our ways. (Like marching around a city blowing a trumpet and expecting the walls to fall) God has a sense of humor and likes to test our faith too!

Focus more on what's right with Jesus and less on what's wrong with the world. Be bold, be strong, be brave, reach out and accept the gifts that are all around you. Including sex and intimacy with the right people. Trial and error, sin happens!

I say these ten words at the gym in my head as I do my ten reps. " I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

And to quote.......

"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled" Ezekiel 23: 20, 21

Reminds me of one of my pastors stories, This person is standing outside the church and says, "I'm not going in there that place is full of hypocrites!", The others standing around say "come on in , there's always room for one more!"

Interesting topic!

SmartKat, I have not seen anyone here citing religious convictions as a reason to stay with a refuser, but I may have missed something since I'm not around much.  (I do think religious convictions prohibit outsourcing though.)  What I have noticed is that many of the religious folks seem to have very strong family values, tending to try to keep the family together at all costs.  I think it's nice to fight for that, but I don't think it's always the healthiest option.

As for the theology of it, I am no expert.  So take this for what it's worth.  Correctly read and interpreted, it is my understanding that the Bible provides grounds for divorce other than adultery.  One of those grounds is abandonment and that includes sexual abandonment.  According to the scriptures, spouses are not supposed to deny one another their bodies and they are supposed to submit to one another.  If your spouse isn't doing that, it's time to see your clergy.

However, there is a VERY bad teaching in Christian churches that can be paraphrased like this "the more you repress your sexual desires, the mode Godly you become" and the opposite  "the more sexual you are, the less Godly you are."  I have no idea where it came from but it's out there.  Sadly, I think it probably left an indelible mark on many a Christian, in particular women, who are already prone to body shame.  The good news is that churches are trying to turn the tides on this.  And some are doing so very successfully, teaching that sex is a/the central part of marriage and that couples should just do it.  Tim Keller, Meaning of Marriage comes to mind.

As for the idea of God as punitive?  I know there are Christians out there who take that unfortunate view of God.  I think it's inaccurate and uninformed.  However, many (hopefully most) Christians view God as a benevolent father figure.  There are absolutely consequences for behavior that isn't  "Christ-like", but those consequences are the result of free will and not the result of a punishment handed down from a man in the sky (which is also not what/who the Christian God is).

When I think of God I like to think of unconditional love.  God (or whatever you want to call your higher power) loves you exactly the way you are right now.  He (She, It) has so much compassion and kindness and grace and generosity of spirit, it would blow your mind.  What I think makes religion, faith, and spirituality real is when people truly understand and experience that love and then share it with others.  Anyone can call themselves religious.  But that doesn't mean they know their own theology.  And it definitely doesn't mean the know GOD.

Regarding salvation, once again, for what it's worth, it is my understanding that all that's required for salvation in Christianity is a belief in Jesus Christ.  In other words, divorce doesn't negate salvation.  For that matter, neither does any other type of sin.  That's the reason so many prisoners turn to Christ.  They're automatically forgiven and saved just for believing.  I'm not saying I agree with that or that it makes any sense to me.  I'm saying I think it's the correct theology.  Others can chime in.

Context? Who is the "she" who did the lusting, & who was lusted after?