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Post by snowman12345 on Jan 27, 2017 6:59:00 GMT -5
cagedtiger your path is clear. I hope you find peace brother.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 27, 2017 10:32:43 GMT -5
cagedtiger your path is clear. I hope you find peace brother. I love this.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jan 30, 2017 23:09:53 GMT -5
gas·light ˈɡaslīt/ verb: gaslighting manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
Also known as, what my wife accused me of doing to her during our first couples session after I left. Well, more accurately, a friend who'd previously been in an abusive marriage said that it sounded like it was what I was doing to her.
...and with that beginning, the rest of the counseling session went exactly as smoothly as can be expected.
To be fair, I caught our counselor by surprise by leaving, as she'd felt the week previous that things had been going pretty well. After I explained about my panic attacks, the general dread and not wanting to go home, and how I've not wanted to be around my wife at all the last few weeks. The wife replied that she'd also not wanted to come home, because she "never knew what to expect" from me, in terms of my moods or interest.
Again, the counselor seemed surprised by all this, and asked me, frankly, what else it was that I thought she was missing, or what wasn't being said or talked about in our sessions.
I immediately launched into the differences in my wife's behavior in counseling versus when we're at home, the fact that I don't feel like she's been completely honest in the sessions, and of course the fact that I hadn't felt like we'd ever fully addressed the lack of affection, emotional closeness, or physical closeness. Again, the wife wasn't really willing to talk to that.
The counselor asked me what my plan was next, and I said that my therapist and I had decided that I should take a month from the couples session, on my own to figure things out, and we could meet up after that to see where I was.
And my wife flipped.
The counselor suggested maybe two weeks.
And she flipped.
The counselor continued talking to her, suggesting that this was something I needed to do for me, to figure out some issues I'd been having, and to work through some things. You know, all the things I'd attempted to tell her last Saturday when I first dropped the bomb.
That calmed her down a bit. "When you put it like that, I guess it makes a little it more sense."
"...that's what I was trying to tell you Saturday, but you weren't listening to me or hearing me. Again."
"That's not what you were saying. And I was listening."
"No, you weren't. Between telling me that I couldn't leave, and I belonged there with you, and begging for another option, you definitely didn't hear what I was saying."
"I never told you you couldn't leave."
I could feel my breath constricting in my chest. We argued back and forth for a couple more minutes on that point, with her giving me an incredulous look and loudly and emphatically insisting again that wasn't at all what she'd said or done. I could feel myself getting short of breath, angry, exasperated, confused, and even starting to doubt myself.
Thankfully, the counselor stepped in at that point, and declared that we'd meet again in two weeks.
Gaslighting, indeed.
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Post by dancingbear70 on Jan 30, 2017 23:21:08 GMT -5
Ooof. If you ever need motivation, think about trying to thus again in 15 years. With a couple of kids' future in the balance.
You are having the moment that many of us wish we could have had when we were still young. Hang in there!
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Post by lyn on Jan 31, 2017 0:07:44 GMT -5
Geez cagedtiger that was rough....... I can only imagine how hard that was to deal with. If this session is any indication, it seems things are going to go downhill fast from here...... doesn't sound like she's taking any responsibility at all for her part in things. Just wondering, how important is it to you that she take some ownership in the problems in your marriage? If it's not that important - it might not be worth this seemingly extreme analysis of something that's pretty much over - at least for you. If you are done 100%, is it even good for her? These joint sessions? Is it good for you? It's a bumpy road, but, you ARE on it! That is huge- I hope you've been able to see the dogs-
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Post by wom360 on Jan 31, 2017 0:18:02 GMT -5
I can't imagine any upside to couples counseling at this stage. It's only going to make it harder.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 31, 2017 0:49:07 GMT -5
Whatever you do or say at the moment I think will have he same effect on your wife Tiger. You are the bad guy in her eyes. And unless she is willing to open her eyes and see the reality she's going to stay in her own perpetual angry/sad/blame someone else cycle.
Remember you are not responsible for her.
Xxx
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 11:30:55 GMT -5
"This isn't right. You can't leave. You have to stay here with me. This isn't you. This isn't your best self. The Tiger I know wouldn't leave." Ok, you and my wife must be reading from the same script because she said exactly the same thing when I told her I wanted a peaceful divorce. She also cannot see any perspective other than her own. Please continue to get out. You are me 28 years ago. I wish I could go back in time and tell myself what I am telling you. This is a toxic relationship and you need to get away from her as soon as possible.
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Post by cagedtiger on Feb 1, 2017 22:02:46 GMT -5
I had a long talk last night with my younger sister. We're the farthest apart in terms of age and birth order, but we've always been very close, and have similar personalities, passions, and interests. She'd gotten a brief rundown of what had happened from the point of view of my parents, based on what they'd been told by my darling wife, but I haven't told them everything, as I was really, really hoping this wouldn't turn into a he said- she said affair. However, knowing how very desperately she's wanted a sister for so long, I knew I owed her an explanation as to what's really going on.
When we started talking, she told me, "please please don't leave her."
An hour and a half later, after telling her about the long term lack of sex and affection, the nights crying myself to sleep, the list of excuses I'd given everybody for the last couple of years as to why my wife never came out to events, all the concerts and shows and events I'd attended alone, she told me,
"...you should move back home. I could be your roommate and your wingman!"
It felt good letting her know what's really going on, and she told me that I really should tell my folks the rest of my side, just so they can get a better idea of the full picture. After all, lord only knows exactly what the wife's said to them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 22:08:40 GMT -5
I had a long talk last night with my younger sister. We're the farthest apart in terms of age and birth order, but we've always been very close, and have similar personalities, passions, and interests. She'd gotten a brief rundown of what had happened from the point of view of my parents, based on what they'd been told by my darling wife, but I haven't told them everything, as I was really, really hoping this wouldn't turn into a he said- she said affair. However, knowing how very desperately she's wanted a sister for so long, I knew I owed her an explanation as to what's really going on. When we started talking, she told me, "please please don't leave her." An hour and a half later, after telling her about the long term lack of sex and affection, the nights crying myself to sleep, the list of excuses I'd given everybody for the last couple of years as to why my wife never came out to events, all the concerts and shows and events I'd attended alone, she told me, "...you should move back home. I could be your roommate and your wingman!" It felt good letting her know what's really going on, and she told me that I really should tell my folks the rest of my side, just so they can get a better idea of the full picture. After all, lord only knows exactly what the wife's said to them. It is wonderful to have the support of family. My parents are gone, but my brother and sister are fully behind me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 22:12:11 GMT -5
cagedtiger your path is clear. I hope you find peace brother. Snowman, this is awesome! I am going to look at it every day until I am completely free of my abuser.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Feb 2, 2017 1:37:37 GMT -5
cagedtiger little sisters rock Glad she's onside. X
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Post by ggold on Feb 2, 2017 22:27:40 GMT -5
cagedtiger I know this took so much courage to do. You have taken an amazing step in the right direction. I am sending you a ton of love and positive vibes. Xo G
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Post by Dan on Feb 3, 2017 12:12:00 GMT -5
When we started dating, she wouldn't have sex with me until I was ready to tell her, "I love you." No sex, until you basically agree to - YOU WILL GIVE ME CONTROL WHILE I GIVE NOTHING BACK. For my wife, this was basically her line 20 years in to the marriage: because I don't feel sufficiently safe, sufficiently loved, I'm really not in the mood for sex with you. But it was the lack of intimacy between us that put the distance between us in the first place!
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Post by cagedtiger on Feb 3, 2017 13:16:16 GMT -5
No sex, until you basically agree to - YOU WILL GIVE ME CONTROL WHILE I GIVE NOTHING BACK. For my wife, this was basically her line 20 years in to the marriage: because I don't feel sufficiently safe, sufficiently loved, I'm really not in the mood for sex with you. But it was the lack of intimacy between us that put the distance between us in the first place! Yeah, that's been her excuse since.... a long time ago. And same cause and effect.
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