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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 12:55:42 GMT -5
I have been to the AVEN website, but I don't go there anymore. Because in my politically-incorrect, judgmental opinion - those people are crazy!
Maybe I am completely insensitive and tone-deaf. But if a person does not want sex, then (except in cases of rape) all they have to do is say no!
That worked for centuries, for priests, nuns, and probably a lot of just plain single people who used to be called "old maids" or "old bachelors."
I would even venture to guess that probably, more of those people did want to have sex - but either because they took vows or for some other reason, it just didn't happen.
Even people who DO want to have sex: what do most people's parents teach them about sex? Usually some variation on "Don't ever have bad evil nasty sex! If you absolutely MUST, then get married and have children."
Seriously. How many people got talks from their parents, schools, and all other adults about how to avoid sex, how to say no, reasons why we should avoid sex, etc.? [Every hand in room goes up; chorus of, "me!" "me too!"]
How many people got talks from their parents about how to talk their date into putting out, how to ensure the best orgasms, etc.? [crickets chirping]
I rest my case. Except with an outright rapist, it's pretty easy to avoid having sex. Aces may be a minority, but IMHO, they are not marginalized or persecuted.
If somebody does not want to have sex with me, I would not keep bugging him about it for too long. At some point (fairly soon), I would give up on him, and look elsewhere.
And yet, when I encounter asexuals online, and I give my opinion that they should not date sexual people, but look for other asexuals - they slam me. So then I ask them if they think it would make sense for a straight person to knowingly date a gay person.
I still haven't had a good answer to that......
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 25, 2017 13:34:25 GMT -5
And yet, when I encounter asexuals online, and I give my opinion that they should not date sexual people, but look for other asexuals - they slam me. So then I ask them if they think it would make sense for a straight person to knowingly date a gay person. I still haven't had a good answer to that...... I have an answer for that (may not be a good one). With my divorce happening, I need a friend to voice my problems with a mentor, more than one mentor. One of those people is a gay man. I see him on weekends. He works were I live. He openly discusses his mate who passed away, while I discuss my STBX. He openly offers to get together during the week, movie, dinner, fishing,time together to actually have fun like two men would do as friends. That (if you want to call it a date) is do-able because of the understanding, and respect, of our differences when it comes to intimacy and sex. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 13:42:51 GMT -5
And yet, when I encounter asexuals online, and I give my opinion that they should not date sexual people, but look for other asexuals - they slam me. So then I ask them if they think it would make sense for a straight person to knowingly date a gay person. I still haven't had a good answer to that...... I have an answer for that (may not be a good one). With my divorce happening, I need a friend to voice my problems with a mentor, more than one mentor. One of those people is a gay man. I see him on weekends. He works were I live. He openly discusses his mate who passed away, while I discuss my STBX. He openly offers to get together during the week, movie, dinner, fishing,time together to actually have fun like two men would do as friends. That (if you want to call it a date) is do-able because of the understanding, and respect, of our differences when it comes to intimacy and sex. No, I would not call that a "date." I would call it two good friends hanging out together. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 13:43:24 GMT -5
I have been to the AVEN website, but I don't go there anymore. Because in my politically-incorrect, judgmental opinion - those people are crazy! Maybe I am completely insensitive and tone-deaf. But if a person does not want sex, then (except in cases of rape) all they have to do is say no! That worked for centuries, for priests, nuns, and probably a lot of just plain single people who used to be called "old maids" or "old bachelors." I would even venture to guess that probably, more of those people did want to have sex - but either because they took vows or for some other reason, it just didn't happen. Even people who DO want to have sex: what do most people's parents teach them about sex? Usually some variation on "Don't ever have bad evil nasty sex! If you absolutely MUST, then get married and have children." Seriously. How many people got talks from their parents, schools, and all other adults about how to avoid sex, how to say no, reasons why we should avoid sex, etc.? [Every hand in room goes up; chorus of, "me!" "me too!"] How many people got talks from their parents about how to talk their date into putting out, how to ensure the best orgasms, etc.? [crickets chirping] I rest my case. Except with an outright rapist, it's pretty easy to avoid having sex. Aces may be a minority, but IMHO, they are not marginalized or persecuted. If somebody does not want to have sex with me, I would not keep bugging him about it for too long. At some point (fairly soon), I would give up on him, and look elsewhere. And yet, when I encounter asexuals online, and I give my opinion that they should not date sexual people, but look for other asexuals - they slam me. So then I ask them if they think it would make sense for a straight person to knowingly date a gay person. I still haven't had a good answer to that...... The AVEN asexuals date sexuals for one reason, which they are very clear about: they consider themselves very rare, too rare to find suitably compatible partners. By default that leaves sexuals. They also believe that there is NO expectation of sex in a marriage, nor that sex is a "need" for sexuals. Nor that sex adds value to a relationship. And therefore there is no big fucking deal about a Bait N Switch. (ah.. the politics of groupthink denial) You'll never get anywhere arguing religion and politics with them. "But if a person does not want sex, then (except in cases of rape) all they have to do is say no! " That would be great if they all admitted it up front. But if you read AVEN stories you see how they justify the Bait N Switch, although I don't advise suggesting that on the forum. You'd be hitting a very sensitive nerve and probably get ejected. But the important lesson of AVEN: There is a HUGE room full of people there that simply do not like sex, do not value sex within a relationship, and do not validate the sexual needs of their sexual partners. Our culture indoctrinates us with the idea that "everyone likes sex", and if you aren't getting any sex in your relationship, then it's YOUR fault, not the fault of your partner. We are taught that we must change. Or we're too fat, too skinny, boobs are too small, dick is too small, and etc. There is no cultural recognition that there are, in fact, a whole bunch of people that simply do not like sex and will not have sex, regardless of how great their partner is. And that apparently includes most marriage therapy since every sexless marriage self help guide I've ever read, always written by a therapist trolling for business, repeats that cultural indoctrination. Perhaps because there would never be a second session, nothing to argue about or work on. That indoctrination fucked with my head for 30 years, including a year of supposed marriage counseling. I found it quite liberating to discover AVEN and learn that it actually might not be my fault at all. That it is very possible there is nothing I could have done to fix my SM. Except in my choice of a partner who deceived me big time. And while my STBX will never admit to asexuality she fits the model perfectly. And the evidence is overwhelming that she is fully sex averse, regardless of what label you want to use. And frankly, most of the refusers here just happen to fit that mold. And that mold DOES include some sort of Bait N Switch to suck in a sexual into the eventually sexless relationship that they want. |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 25, 2017 13:47:57 GMT -5
New thread on AVEN. This is the exact question....
Is it possible to be a sexual who fancies people, fancies sex, has sex and enjoys it, has sexual thoughts about people but over time loses all or most of this and eventually fits somewhere in the asexual spectrum?
Now.. of course we know that this is impossible!!! It is not possible to be heterosexual and one day become homosexual or vice versa. Yes people do hide their sexuality for various reasons but no one ever changes mid adulthood. It simply can not happen. Let's see what answers are given over the next few days!
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 13:49:20 GMT -5
Like they say, "it's no big deal, it's not that important, I don't see the need for it." Of course not. Nobody finds it to be a priority to have sex with someone who they don't want to have sex with, unless that's either your job or your kink. You haven't spent much time on AVEN. Many or most of them are engaged in the process of getting into a committed relationship with sexuals. That is a factual observation. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 13:52:09 GMT -5
New thread on AVEN. This is the exact question.... Is it possible to be a sexual who fancies people, fancies sex, has sex and enjoys it, has sexual thoughts about people but over time loses all or most of this and eventually fits somewhere in the asexual spectrum? Now.. of course we know that this is impossible!!! It is not possible to be heterosexual and one day become homosexual or vice versa. Yes people do hide their sexuality for various reasons but no one ever changes mid adulthood. It simply can not happen. Let's see what answers are given over the next few days! Not necessarily true. Some women come out of menopause with no interest (I've heard 1/3?). Guys get ED and seem to lose all interest. After 30 years of sexual behavior. Of course, there are also some very long running Bait N Switches described on AVEN so it's hard to draw a line in between.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 13:52:27 GMT -5
I think you are right, beachguy. I just wish that asexuals would leave us alone. If I was a lesbian, I would not be hitting on guys. (It's the year 2017 and in most places, it's acceptable to just be gay if that is what you are.) And, since most people know or assume that I am straight, I have never had a lesbian approach me. All I want is for asexuals to follow the example of the gay community, and not try to mess around with those who do not share their orientation. I know - you said it - they think they're "rare" and that that limits their choice of a partner. But, how many people are on the AVEN website? Surely they could look to each other? |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 13:52:48 GMT -5
New thread on AVEN. This is the exact question.... Is it possible to be a sexual who fancies people, fancies sex, has sex and enjoys it, has sexual thoughts about people but over time loses all or most of this and eventually fits somewhere in the asexual spectrum? Now.. of course we know that this is impossible!!! It is not possible to be heterosexual and one day become homosexual or vice versa. Yes people do hide their sexuality for various reasons but no one ever changes mid adulthood. It simply can not happen. Let's see what answers are given over the next few days! I'll predict a discussion of "sexual fluidity"... haven't looked at the thread yet. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 13:57:52 GMT -5
I think you are right, beachguy . I just wish that asexuals would leave us alone. If I was a lesbian, I would not be hitting on guys. (It's the year 2017 and in most places, it's acceptable to just be gay if that is what you are.) And, since most people know or assume that I am straight, I have never had a lesbian approach me. All I want is for asexuals to follow the example of the gay community, and not try to mess around with those who do not share their orientation. I know - you said it - they think they're "rare" and that that limits their choice of a partner. But, how many people are on the AVEN website? Surely they could look to each other? Apparently the site is not that large. Unfortunately, for every one that comes out as asexual there are probably thousands in the closet. I've seen discussions there about finding asexuals for relationships. Apparently it just rarely happens. Maybe the problem is that there are Gay Bars, but no Ace Bars. There is probably money to be made in that  |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 14:01:11 GMT -5
The best solution to closet asexuals is to make it clear at the start of a relationship that celibacy is not an option, and that there is more to a sexual relationship than not celibate. And enforce that boundary. My boundary: lack of good sex is a deal breaker. Stop.
I doubt many people actually talk about that until they've been through this.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 25, 2017 14:13:17 GMT -5
New thread on AVEN. This is the exact question.... Is it possible to be a sexual who fancies people, fancies sex, has sex and enjoys it, has sexual thoughts about people but over time loses all or most of this and eventually fits somewhere in the asexual spectrum? Now.. of course we know that this is impossible!!! It is not possible to be heterosexual and one day become homosexual or vice versa. Yes people do hide their sexuality for various reasons but no one ever changes mid adulthood. It simply can not happen. Let's see what answers are given over the next few days! Not necessarily true. Some women come out of menopause with no interest (I've heard 1/3?). Guys get ED and seem to lose all interest. After 30 years of sexual behavior. Of course, there are also some very long running Bait N Switches described on AVEN so it's hard to draw a line in between.... Getting ED and losing interest or going through menopause and losing interest is different to simply switching. If they answer with "after menopause...." then fair enough but I think some of these people seem to just decide one day that this what I'm gonna be. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 25, 2017 14:25:06 GMT -5
Not necessarily true. Some women come out of menopause with no interest (I've heard 1/3?). Guys get ED and seem to lose all interest. After 30 years of sexual behavior. Of course, there are also some very long running Bait N Switches described on AVEN so it's hard to draw a line in between.... Getting ED and losing interest or going through menopause and losing interest is different to simply switching. If they answer with "after menopause...." then fair enough but I think some of these people seem to just decide one day that this what I'm gonna be. That may be true. They may do this on a whim. But the important message is that they are NOT complaining about their partners or how they are being treated. They *BELIEVE* they are asexual and no one is going to convince them otherwise. I'm pretty sure there are refused partners on the other side of those people, banging their heads against a wall, trying to solve an unsolvable problem. And some of them are probably posting here! I have not read many stories there about asexuals suddenly switching, as you suggest. In fact, none at all. What I do read, over and over, is something like this: "I've had problems with sex {for xxx years} and then I found this site and now I understand I'm asexual and now it all makes sense. (So I'm no longer going to have sex with my partner). This is like a broken record there. The one big difference between many or most of our refusers and them is that they NOW acknowledge their identity. Where our spouses apparently never do (or they hide it- we'll never know how many of our refusers are over there). But many of them were obviously refusing for a decade or more before they "discovered their identity". |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 25, 2017 14:30:34 GMT -5
Getting ED and losing interest or going through menopause and losing interest is different to simply switching. If they answer with "after menopause...." then fair enough but I think some of these people seem to just decide one day that this what I'm gonna be. That may be true. They may do this on a whim. But the important message is that they are NOT complaining about their partners or how they are being treated. They *BELIEVE* they are asexual and no one is going to convince them otherwise. I'm pretty sure there are refused partners on the other side of those people, banging their heads against a wall, trying to solve an unsolvable problem. And some of them are probably posting here! I have not read many stories there about asexuals suddenly switching, as you suggest. In fact, none at all. What I do read, over and over, is something like this: "I've had problems with sex {for xxx years} and then I found this site and now I understand I'm asexual and now it all makes sense. (So I'm no longer going to have sex with my partner). This is like a broken record there. The one big difference between many or most of our refusers and them is that they NOW acknowledge their identity. Where our spouses apparently never do (or they hide it- we'll never know how many of our refusers are over there). But many of them were obviously refusing for a decade or more before they "discovered their identity". Gotcha! The post will run its course and ultimately you are probably quite right. It isn't really a sexual orientation then. It's just someone who didn't like sex or lot lost their libido. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 25, 2017 14:37:47 GMT -5
A few of us, who are as old as dirt, and married in a time before them putters' came around, married right into a possible closet asexual relationship. With the closet asexual hiding their past. What ever it may be, sexually abused, bullied, low self images, religious convictions, fear of touch ,a family that had zero intimacy, etc...
Whatever the label it's up to each individual to recognize, and deal with the problem. That's where ILIASM helps out, exposing the one sided-ness of it all
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