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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 23, 2017 2:59:34 GMT -5
Based on Brother telecaster's 4th December story, he is definitely amenable to the outsourcing option. Oh I am. Finding a 'contractor' is another issue though... |
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Post by baza on Jan 23, 2017 3:07:27 GMT -5
Indeed Brother telecaster. Canndidates don't seem to drop out of trees in front of one, yelling - "Root me Big Boy".
(well, not in my experience at least !!!)
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 23, 2017 10:29:32 GMT -5
It's not binary, all or nothing. @telecaster. In your heart of hearts, what separates a marriage from other intimate long term relationships? Is it the presence of a unique physical and intimate attraction? A benefit from years of family counselling was the splitting of the notion of the "marriage" (inviting specific expectations) from the "relationship", which was more loosely defined. Thought experiment: imagine your present deal written into your wedding vow. Do you you go through with the wedding? Does SHE? I agree with you in as much as your relationship needn't be all or nothing. In the ballet example, there are all the other ingredients - the music, costumes, set. They could be worked into a new show - a symphony, or a revue of the dance numbers that don't involve the prima donna. The prima donna could come out in here wheelchair and take on a new role in that show. With time and effort, her dance could be reworked into something that involves a wheelchair - it could get a standing ovation. But it's not going to be the ballet you came to see, and if that's your expectation, then you are going to wind up hating what you get. Another thought experiment, this time about the assumption that a hypothetical split is all or nothing. What separates your present deal with your wife from my own present separated deal with Mrs Apocrypha? I'm asking you what does marriage bring to the table?
To compare us, Mrs Apocrypha and I are still: -married legally -sharing most finances, filing taxes jointly, beneficiaries to each other -cooperative parents to tweens -sharing major holidays and some family events involving kids (extended family dinner on Xmas day for example, and kid family birthdays, some family outings with kids) -on shared benefits -sharing ownership in a common dwelling in which I and the kids live, but unresolved as to what to do with it, and a separate apartment where she primarily resides -not sleeping together What's different? -we have no intention of ever sleeping with each other or having sexual obligations or propriety with each other. -we have privacy over what we disclose about our private lives, which includes our sexual adventures and relationships -we usually don't sleep in the same house -our intention with each other is to set ourselves up independently and to reduce net household costs as much as possible to ease the financial burden -we don't fight, cry, rage, and or (to my knowledge) drink to oblivion and to legitimize destructive choices - or we dramatically have reduced the tendency to do so -we feel more sane, functional -we do not invest in shared lifelong goals, except those involving kids -we have no sense of calamity or doom related to the impossible task of "saving the marriage" Binary? All or nothing? Not at all. This is not the end state of where Mrs Apocrypha and I are headed, but it is a more truthful representation of where we are and where we have been. To get to this place involved a lot of negotiation and assurances with each other about intentions, values, priorities, fears. It's not awesome - not even what I would describe as "good" but it's a mile better than where we were. My point is - it's not "all or nothing". Our prima donna had a broken leg and we adapted the show to something else, using the show we had. At some point that leg may heal. Possible that we have both lost our taste for ballet in the meantime. Whatever it is, it's more authentic and less fraught, and serves our needs better than before. |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 24, 2017 5:28:52 GMT -5
New memeber on the aven site says...
I DON'T think I'm asexual. I'm attracted to people, I'm not sex repulsed I just don't having any specific urge to have sex.
Instantly an influx of replies come in saying, sounds asexual to me, welcome to the club...
I post...how old are you and are you male or female. The thinking being that young people develop a mature desire for sexual activity at different stages in life. Some people are in their 20s before they feel mature enough and or have a desire for sex. I get a response from a self diagnosed asexual that reads "that's not relevant".
Join the club. Early diagnosis of asexuality means bolstering the numbers of asexuals and thus more credibility for it in general. Any other view is irrelevant to some of these people.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 24, 2017 9:13:45 GMT -5
I spent some time reading AVEN the other day, what seems so twisted is their need for touch.
To fill this need, many of them recommend, going dancing, swing dancing, go to snuggle parties, work with children, get a massage, love cats and dogs, so they can experience touch but no sex.
While so many of us, (myself included) would see, or meet someone like that and think, Oh..maybe there's a chance, that this persons love language is touch, (like mine) and maybe they crave it too?
Hard to dissect it all, or figure it out. It's all just mind blowing!
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Post by beachguy on Jan 24, 2017 9:43:50 GMT -5
I spent some time reading AVEN the other day, what seems so twisted is their need for touch. To fill this need, many of them recommend, going dancing, swing dancing, go to snuggle parties, work with children, get a massage, love cats and dogs, so they can experience touch but no sex. While so many of us, (myself included) would see, or meet someone like that and think, Oh..maybe there's a chance, that this persons love language is touch, (like mine) and maybe they crave it too? Hard to dissect it all, or figure it out. It's all just mind blowing! It seems very simple to me, not mind blowing at all. Some of them are just like us, except they don't like messing with other people's genitalia and they don't like other people messing with their genitalia. Maybe I'm wired differently but I don't have to feel what they feel to understand AND ACCEPT that what is, is. That doesn't mean I accept the dishonesty of my refuser. Quick ETA: it's just a boundary, much like any other boundary. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 24, 2017 11:58:57 GMT -5
I spent some time reading AVEN the other day, what seems so twisted is their need for touch. To fill this need, many of them recommend, going dancing, swing dancing, go to snuggle parties, work with children, get a massage, love cats and dogs, so they can experience touch but no sex. While so many of us, (myself included) would see, or meet someone like that and think, Oh..maybe there's a chance, that this persons love language is touch, (like mine) and maybe they crave it too? Hard to dissect it all, or figure it out. It's all just mind blowing! It seems very simple to me, not mind blowing at all. Some of them are just like us, except they don't like messing with other people's genitalia and they don't like other people messing with their genitalia. Maybe I'm wired differently but I don't have to feel what they feel to understand AND ACCEPT that what is, is. That doesn't mean I accept the dishonesty of my refuser. Quick ETA: it's just a boundary, much like any other boundary. If only a refuser would recognize what it is, accept what it is, and politely, directly inform you of what it is. However for both of us, that wasn't ,and isn't the case ,is it? Instead come the tactics of narcissism and manipulative control, which blindly traps the victim, (the giver) by the taker. Speaking of myself, and others on here it lasts for decades, until the FOG is lifted. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 24, 2017 15:50:20 GMT -5
It seems very simple to me, not mind blowing at all. Some of them are just like us, except they don't like messing with other people's genitalia and they don't like other people messing with their genitalia. Maybe I'm wired differently but I don't have to feel what they feel to understand AND ACCEPT that what is, is. That doesn't mean I accept the dishonesty of my refuser. Quick ETA: it's just a boundary, much like any other boundary. If only a refuser would recognize what it is, accept what it is, and politely, directly inform you of what it is. However for both of us, that wasn't ,and isn't the case ,is it? Instead come the tactics of narcissism and manipulative control, which blindly traps the victim, (the giver) by the taker. Speaking of myself, and others on here it lasts for decades, until the FOG is lifted. If my marriage had gone totally celibate the day after the wedding, I would have gotten out. I'm sure of it. But as I look back on it, she strung me along, from the day I met her, with just enough sex to barely keep me in the game. It's really tough to walk out of a new marriage "because I only got laid once last month". It would have been the right decision and I came within a whisker of doing it, but I chickened out after making the decision. And then came the pregnancy and the trap was fully sprung. Yea, talk about manipulation and control. And this is a guy that had a 3 date rule that was rigidly enforced. I was actually somewhat obsessed over not ending up in a sexless marriage, because I saw my parents go through that. My STBX was the 2nd most sexual woman I ever dated. I've spent way too much time trying to figure out exactly how I fucked that up so badly. Unfortunately what I learned is that patience and understanding is your enemy. |
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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 25, 2017 9:35:06 GMT -5
AVEN update. I've been banned for two weeks, I think for saying an Andrea Dworkin quote was asinine. I honestly can't really tell what the offence was.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 25, 2017 9:47:37 GMT -5
AVEN update. I've been banned for two weeks, I think for saying an Andrea Dworkin quote was asinine. I honestly can't really tell what the offence was. There is room for free speech on aven. You can challenge most things but the second you challenge it would appear you are in danger of being banned. I got 3 private messages from unhappy people when I answered to a post that was 'asking for ways to cope when a guy hits on you in a bar and it makes you feel uncomfortable'. It was written to suggest that only asexuals experience this problem. Apparently my answer which was to point out (politely) that plenty of married woman or spoken for women or even gay woman have to cope with such an issue and it's not an asexual issue was deemed inappropriate. |
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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 25, 2017 9:54:04 GMT -5
I saw your post, and it was utterly reasonable and sensible.
You're right, you can say whatever you want but you'll get targeted by a roaming band of special snowflakes who can't stand the thought they're not particularly oppressed. I'm pretty certain that's what's happened here.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 25, 2017 10:15:08 GMT -5
AVEN update. I've been banned for two weeks, I think for saying an Andrea Dworkin quote was asinine. I honestly can't really tell what the offence was. Apostasy against feminism, if you believed. Blasphemy against feminism, otherwise. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 25, 2017 10:16:51 GMT -5
AVEN update. I've been banned for two weeks, I think for saying an Andrea Dworkin quote was asinine. I honestly can't really tell what the offence was. There is room for free speech on aven. You can challenge most things but the second you challenge it would appear you are in danger of being banned. I got 3 private messages from unhappy people when I answered to a post that was 'asking for ways to cope when a guy hits on you in a bar and it makes you feel uncomfortable'. It was written to suggest that only asexuals experience this problem. Apparently my answer which was to point out (politely) that plenty of married woman or spoken for women or even gay woman have to cope with such an issue and it's not an asexual issue was deemed inappropriate. Men also experience this. You are describing a normal experience that is common to being a human in the world. |
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Post by Lithium92 on Jan 25, 2017 10:33:41 GMT -5
AVEN update. I've been banned for two weeks, I think for saying an Andrea Dworkin quote was asinine. I honestly can't really tell what the offence was. Apostasy against feminism, if you believed. Blasphemy against feminism, otherwise. I'd normally happily line up with feminists, on the whole, and even Dworkin isn't quite as bad as she's sometimes characterised. It was just this particular quote, something about how no woman could avoid getting through life without being penetrated by a penis, that I said was asinine and pointed out I knew a lot of women who actively wanted to get penetrated by a penis... Apparently I was 'judging' somebody or something in some way. And 'judging' = bad on AVEN, though I'd love to see anyone get through a day without making any kind of judgements about anyone. |
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 25, 2017 10:35:28 GMT -5
There is room for free speech on aven. You can challenge most things but the second you challenge it would appear you are in danger of being banned. I got 3 private messages from unhappy people when I answered to a post that was 'asking for ways to cope when a guy hits on you in a bar and it makes you feel uncomfortable'. It was written to suggest that only asexuals experience this problem. Apparently my answer which was to point out (politely) that plenty of married woman or spoken for women or even gay woman have to cope with such an issue and it's not an asexual issue was deemed inappropriate. Men also experience this. You are describing a normal experience that is common to being a human in the world. Exactly!!! Some on the AVEN site appear to think they are completely unique and almost like they have been wronged by a person who flirts with them, begins a relationship with them and expects sex and many more stupid scenarios. On one of the threads called 'annoying things SEXUAL people say' someone said they hated it when someone said to them "you're really attractive, how are you still single". Well where I come from that is a compliment and not something to fear or despise us 'sexuals' for. |
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