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Post by petrushka on Jan 9, 2017 0:21:27 GMT -5
What exactly is a 'whore card'? Sounds like a game of crazy eights or something slightly more sinister. Consider it a "hall pass" to go get sex elsewhere. Or a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. Problem is, for how many of us is sex the real issue? If you want more -- the whole intimacy package -- you'll end up a split person. All of your emotional ties will be with this new person, but all your legal / social / financial / parental ties will still be anchored to your marriage. That sounds like recipe for a real dilemma. For me, I think it would be a slippery slope that would continue out of control once I started down. I would want to put more into the new relationship than would be possible if married. Unfair for all parties. So, a hall pass / open marriage would not be workable for me. Too right. The whole intimacy package ... The whole intimacy package has actually ramped up for me, rather than being cancelled - within her lights. Of course, she still is who she is, which is someone who will not come to me and just gush her emotions all over me, but she sure makes an effort to be affectionate and will share when she has concerns or issues. Not to mention that she's making a hell of an effort to improve OUR lives rather than her life only never mind leeching off me. And she does grab me and hold on to me when we go out, hardware shopping or whatever ;-) Everybody's different. Irrespective of the good things I have to say, in my bad moments I still teeter close to the edge of calling time on it. But, seriously, I don't think I can do one hell of a lot better, with or without sex. |
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Post by pfviento on Jan 9, 2017 3:08:16 GMT -5
A "Hall Pass" isn't all it's cracked up to be. I was issued one I didn't even know about. During a discussion it turns out my wife assumed I was having affairs (When? I don't have that much time that is not accounted for). I was a little stunned by that. I'm not exactly sure how to process her going on with life and just assuming I was having an affair. I'm not all that sure I would want to have one. I don't see sex with random people filling the void that is there. The Sleep Apnea machine is helping her sleep when she chooses to use it but the problems remain. The only hint of issues was apparently there is one person she would be "upset" if I choose to have an affair with. So apparently there are a few restrictions on it.
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Post by darktippedrose on Jan 9, 2017 18:23:10 GMT -5
A "Hall Pass" isn't all it's cracked up to be. I was issued one I didn't even know about. During a discussion it turns out my wife assumed I was having affairs (When? I don't have that much time that is not accounted for). I was a little stunned by that. I'm not exactly sure how to process her going on with life and just assuming I was having an affair. I'm not all that sure I would want to have one. I don't see sex with random people filling the void that is there. The Sleep Apnea machine is helping her sleep when she chooses to use it but the problems remain. The only hint of issues was apparently there is one person she would be "upset" if I choose to have an affair with. So apparently there are a few restrictions on it. I am quite sure my husband thinks of me as being the same thing. He has cheated on me before. Sometimes he admits it and sometimes he doesn't. But somehow he thinks that because he's not doing it right now, then everything should be jfine without putting in any work. lol so sorry you're going through this. |
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Post by pfviento on Jan 9, 2017 18:40:16 GMT -5
A "Hall Pass" isn't all it's cracked up to be. I was issued one I didn't even know about. During a discussion it turns out my wife assumed I was having affairs (When? I don't have that much time that is not accounted for). I was a little stunned by that. I'm not exactly sure how to process her going on with life and just assuming I was having an affair. I'm not all that sure I would want to have one. I don't see sex with random people filling the void that is there. The Sleep Apnea machine is helping her sleep when she chooses to use it but the problems remain. The only hint of issues was apparently there is one person she would be "upset" if I choose to have an affair with. So apparently there are a few restrictions on it. I am quite sure my husband thinks of me as being the same thing. He has cheated on me before. Sometimes he admits it and sometimes he doesn't. But somehow he thinks that because he's not doing it right now, then everything should be jfine without putting in any work. lol so sorry you're going through this. He might want to believe you are or have had affairs to justify his own actions. I see many guys that cheat that are the most paranoid about their spouses. Trust is hard to build and nearly impossible to recover. Infidelity is a tough thing to recover from in a marriage. I am pretty open with my wife about where I stand. Getting a straight answer from her is much more difficult. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 9, 2017 19:05:03 GMT -5
Consider it a "hall pass" to go get sex elsewhere. Or a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. Problem is, for how many of us is sex the real issue? If you want more -- the whole intimacy package -- you'll end up a split person. All of your emotional ties will be with this new person, but all your legal / social / financial / parental ties will still be anchored to your marriage. That sounds like recipe for a real dilemma. For me, I think it would be a slippery slope that would continue out of control once I started down. I would want to put more into the new relationship than would be possible if married. Unfair for all parties. So, a hall pass / open marriage would not be workable for me. Too right. The whole intimacy package ... The whole intimacy package has actually ramped up for me, rather than being cancelled - within her lights. Of course, she still is who she is, which is someone who will not come to me and just gush her emotions all over me, but she sure makes an effort to be affectionate and will share when she has concerns or issues. Not to mention that she's making a hell of an effort to improve OUR lives rather than her life only never mind leeching off me. And she does grab me and hold on to me when we go out, hardware shopping or whatever ;-) Everybody's different. Irrespective of the good things I have to say, in my bad moments I still teeter close to the edge of calling time on it. But, seriously, I don't think I can do one hell of a lot better, with or without sex. I know that i couldn't do any better, sexlessness be damned ... at least you seem to see willingness and interest. |
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Post by baza on Jan 9, 2017 22:05:44 GMT -5
The whore card or green light or FWB or affair partner or whatever you care to call it, is actually a real person.
A real person, with their own aspirations, thoughts, emotions and feelings.
A real person.
Not an exotic toy that you use and then store away in a cupboard until it suits you again.
A real person.
Worthy of as much respect and consideration as you or I.
Now it may well be that you are capable of compartmentalising your life in a manner that treats this as "just sex". And maybe this other person can do so too. Maybe.
Rooting someone - in my experience - tends to establish a bond of some sort between rooter and rootee.
Do you really want to drag someone else into your dysfunctional situation ?
Where is the equity in that for the 3rd party ??
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Post by JMX on Jan 9, 2017 23:26:32 GMT -5
The whore card or green light or FWB or affair partner or whatever you care to call it, is actually a real person. A real person, with their own aspirations, thoughts, emotions and feelings. A real person. Not an exotic toy that you use and then store away in a cupboard until it suits you again. A real person. Worthy of as much respect and consideration as you or I. Now it may well be that you are capable of compartmentalising your life in a manner that treats this as "just sex". And maybe this other person can do so too. Maybe. Rooting someone - in my experience - tends to establish a bond of some sort between rooter and rootee. Do you really want to drag someone else into your dysfunctional situation ? Where is the equity in that for the 3rd party ?? Exactly why I cannot outsource. |
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Post by petrushka on Jan 9, 2017 23:29:45 GMT -5
The whore card or green light or FWB or affair partner or whatever you care to call it, is actually a real person. A real person, with their own aspirations, thoughts, emotions and feelings. A real person. Not an exotic toy that you use and then store away in a cupboard until it suits you again. A real person. Worthy of as much respect and consideration as you or I. Now it may well be that you are capable of compartmentalising your life in a manner that treats this as "just sex". And maybe this other person can do so too. Maybe. Rooting someone - in my experience - tends to establish a bond of some sort between rooter and rootee. Do you really want to drag someone else into your dysfunctional situation ? Where is the equity in that for the 3rd party ?? Very very valid concerns. At least if you're the sort looking for a real connection with a real human being, and maybe a real relationship to come out of that. Everybody has to enter with their eyes wide open. Some people are willing to do that. I know a few, albeit I don't have a relationship with anyone like that at the moment. Haven't had, in fact, for some 25 years ... but I've been there, done that, and of course they are a person in their own right, with their own agenda, their own desires, their own preferences ... which can make life so much more interesting and enrich your life a lot if it plays out in a harmonious way. Starting something with someone else who then expects to become the sole focus of the other person's life, that is clearly the way to hurt and chaos. I don't think compartmentalising is the solution either - it has to be inclusive, for all the people involved, for it to be viable in the long run. |
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Post by JMX on Jan 9, 2017 23:40:16 GMT -5
I agree exactly. My H has suggested I find someone else to kiss. He misses the point I want to kiss HIM. The person I love. I don't think anyone understands how the continued rejection feels. If he actually said that, it's over. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 23:48:21 GMT -5
I agree exactly. My H has suggested I find someone else to kiss. He misses the point I want to kiss HIM. The person I love. I don't think anyone understands how the continued rejection feels. If he actually said that, it's over. He's gay. |
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Post by callisto on Jan 10, 2017 2:03:33 GMT -5
The whore card or green light or FWB or affair partner or whatever you care to call it, is actually a real person. A real person, with their own aspirations, thoughts, emotions and feelings. A real person. Not an exotic toy that you use and then store away in a cupboard until it suits you again. A real person. Worthy of as much respect and consideration as you or I. Now it may well be that you are capable of compartmentalising your life in a manner that treats this as "just sex". And maybe this other person can do so too. Maybe. Rooting someone - in my experience - tends to establish a bond of some sort between rooter and rootee. Do you really want to drag someone else into your dysfunctional situation ? Where is the equity in that for the 3rd party ?? Very very valid concerns. At least if you're the sort looking for a real connection with a real human being, and maybe a real relationship to come out of that. Everybody has to enter with their eyes wide open. Some people are willing to do that. I know a few, albeit I don't have a relationship with anyone like that at the moment. Haven't had, in fact, for some 25 years ... but I've been there, done that, and of course they are a person in their own right, with their own agenda, their own desires, their own preferences ... which can make life so much more interesting and enrich your life a lot if it plays out in a harmonious way. Starting something with someone else who then expects to become the sole focus of the other person's life, that is clearly the way to hurt and chaos. I don't think compartmentalising is the solution either - it has to be inclusive, for all the people involved, for it to be viable in the long run. I may be naive, optimistic and/ or really out of touch with human psyche but I do not see why it should not work being romantically AND physically attached to a third person provided that person doesn't necessarily want you to live with them or have financial commitments to you. For the refuser spouse I would have thought in some instances they should be relieved that they get, 'let off the hook' sexually and can no longer worry about their intimacy starved refused spouse leaving them entirely hence keeping the refuser's life as they like it- no sex and not loosing their spouse or security or social standing. Surely throughout history there have been such menages..? |
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Post by callisto on Jan 10, 2017 2:35:17 GMT -5
I entirely appreciate your point of view Earthhorse but I don't seem to have that clear thinking. Or maybe I do, but because of really mucked up brain due to SM, my ideas are skewed way off beam. I have never had a proper sexual relationship in my over decade long marriage so for me my marriage has been about something other than that. I am emotionally attached/ love more than one individual and in a way I've given emotionally more of myself to both hence why I am so exhausted and confounded. I know this makes life more complicated and it not standard but I have never been particularly standard. I am probably going to loose my H as he, like most people will refuse to condone me continuing an intimate friendship with a third person. This will be a great tragedy for we are genuinely suited to living together just not as lovers. Children are not in my life so our situation is not confused by them...
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Post by baza on Jan 10, 2017 2:36:30 GMT -5
There are all sorts of variations within marriage, such as the example you cite above Sister c. And plenty more.
The real relevance is if any such a variation would work in *your* specific situation with *your* particular mix of personalities.
These imaginative solutions tend to require imaginative people with very open minds.
Not traits you'd expect to find in avoidant refusers I'd suggest.
There are possibly examples in the membership where an unconventional methodology have been tried.
The only one I can think of is Brother apochrypha (who has recently been posting here incidently).
That saga (in the old EP archives) is well worth reading.
It doesn't end well.
Cut to the chase, do *you* see an unconventional solution as being applicable in *your* situation ?
Do *you* have the requisite mindset and skills ?
Does your husband have the requisite mindset and skills.
(It sure as shit wouldn't have flown in my deal back in the day)
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Post by callisto on Jan 10, 2017 2:49:11 GMT -5
There are all sorts of variations within marriage, such as the example you cite above Sister c. And plenty more. The real relevance is if any such a variation would work in *your* specific situation with *your* particular mix of personalities. These imaginative solutions tend to require imaginative people with very open minds. Not traits you'd expect to find in avoidant refusers I'd suggest. There are possibly examples in the membership where an unconventional methodology have been tried. The only one I can think of is Brother apochrypha (who has recently been posting here incidently). That saga (in the old EP archives) is well worth reading. It doesn't end well. Cut to the chase, do *you* see an unconventional solution as being applicable in *your* situation ? (It sure as shit wouldn't have flown in my deal back in the day) I am laughing ( in an end of the world type of way) - I am both imaginative, creative, and wildly ( naively) hopeful- or clutching at straws for my heart is torn two ways. My H will most likely knock my solution to the sky or earth and we will just have to separate. I don't think he will condone my plan and will rather move on without me causing havoc with his mind. He will think I am no longer committed to our marriage which confuses me as I am confused... |
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Post by callisto on Jan 10, 2017 2:58:34 GMT -5
I entirely appreciate your point of view Earthhorse but I don't seem to have that clear thinking. Or maybe I do, but because of really mucked up brain due to SM, my ideas are skewed way off beam. I have never had a proper sexual relationship in my over decade long marriage so for me my marriage has been about something other than that. I am emotionally attached/ love more than one individual and in a way I've given emotionally more of myself to both hence why I am so exhausted and confounded. I know this makes life more complicated and it not standard but I have never been particularly standard. I am probably going to loose my H as he, like most people will refuse to condone me continuing an intimate friendship with a third person. This will be a great tragedy for we are genuinely suited to living together just not as lovers. Children are not in my life so our situation is not confused by them... , I'm not saying i'm not tempted by it. I definitely understand giving emotionally to another person, too. But if i can strip away the appeal of a third party and see it for what it is--an attempt to connect with a human being--i can see that it's in conflict with my current marriage which is...an attempt to connect with a human being. I do have children. That changes it tremendously. Though, as I told my dad (who told me i should "think about the kids"): I am thinking about my kids, and I don't want them to see their parents living together and not respecting each other and loving one another. That's not a good model of love. If either of my kids told me they were brokenhearted in a SM, i'd feel terribly sad for them, and would encourage them to leave while they can. In my dismay I finally gave in and opened up to admit to my parents about my situation this past summer. They were incredibly sorry for me and supportive . My Dad told me had he known about SM he would have counselled me to leave many, many years ago. I feel weird and sorrowful that I had to tell them, to upset them and to shatter their hopes of happiness (or children) for their daughter; infact I'm having to stop myself falling into floods of tears whilst writing this as I can see their kind concerned faces.. |
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