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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 16:54:51 GMT -5
So you're saying there was never any fixing it, in his mind? No need to fix it, he's having his needs filled. His mask serves him well, any attempt to remove it, all he has to do is pull back with his words a little right into his safe zone. Your needs are irrelevant. Yeah, I definitely feel like if I never brought this up, it would NEVER be discussed. He claims to deal with it within his mind, but that's not helpful, nor does it bring sex into the relationship, apparently. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 16:55:33 GMT -5
"He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that." Thus putting the fault squarely on you. I'll hazard a guess that you'd like to tell him that he's a fucking idiot for even suggesting that. But you can't because to do so would be abusive. That's manipulation. This guy has a Masters Degree from DARVO university! Also sounds like another classic case of "acts of service" for him, the never ending treadmill for her. What does that mean?? lol |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 16:56:15 GMT -5
So you're saying there was never any fixing it, in his mind? I'm saying it is quite coincidental that his position on the genesis of the sexlessness cannot be easily argued without you yourself being abusive. That just... might be manipulative. "So you're saying there was never any fixing it , in his mind?" Fixed it for you. I would not say anything with certainty about what is going on in his mind. The only thing I can say with as much certainty as humanly possible is that he has given you no indication whatsoever that he is actually interested in solving the problem, and that is consistent with the near certainty all of us have here that it can't be fixed. As you said, it is remarkably and most frustratingly easy to fix, *if* it is fixable. All he has to do is get it up and stick it in you. This is a lot easier than cooking dinner, for example. Right, other than saying that he also hates being in a SM. How do you hate it if you NEVER bring it up, NEVER offer solutions, or NEVER change? I DO NOT get that. I get that he deals with things more internally, but come on! |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 16:58:18 GMT -5
Yikes..just skimmed so far but seems to describe him well. Sadly, I don't think he even realizes he does this. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 17:04:35 GMT -5
Yikes..just skimmed so far but seems to describe him well. Sadly, I don't think he even realizes he does this. Cudos to greatcoastal for mentioning DARVO. This is all part of the manipulation we've been bringing up. Just a very comprehensive description of the process. "Right, other than saying that he also hates being in a SM. How do you hate it if you NEVER bring it up, NEVER offer solutions, or NEVER change? I DO NOT get that. I get that he deals with things more internally, but come on!" Just more Theater Of The Absurd that is so absurd you probably walk away shaking your head rather than trying to argue the ridiculousness of that position. This is why I keep insisting he has zero interest in solving the problem. And that should be all you need to know. You don't need to know the underlying WHY or how he copes with it himself. He hates the sexlessness that HE enforced on you. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 17:05:17 GMT -5
Yikes..just skimmed so far but seems to describe him well. Sadly, I don't think he even realizes he does this. Cudos to greatcoastal for mentioning DARVO. This is all part of the manipulation we've been bringing up. Just a very comprehensive description of the process. "Right, other than saying that he also hates being in a SM. How do you hate it if you NEVER bring it up, NEVER offer solutions, or NEVER change? I DO NOT get that. I get that he deals with things more internally, but come on!" Just more Theater Of The Absurd that is so absurd you probably walk away shaking your head rather than trying to argue the ridiculousness of that position. This is why I keep insisting he has zero interest in solving the problem. And that should be all you need to know. You don't need to know the underlying WHY or how he copes with it himself. He hates the sexlessness that HE enforced on you. How can it be all his fault though? |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 17:16:34 GMT -5
Cudos to greatcoastal for mentioning DARVO. This is all part of the manipulation we've been bringing up. Just a very comprehensive description of the process. "Right, other than saying that he also hates being in a SM. How do you hate it if you NEVER bring it up, NEVER offer solutions, or NEVER change? I DO NOT get that. I get that he deals with things more internally, but come on!" Just more Theater Of The Absurd that is so absurd you probably walk away shaking your head rather than trying to argue the ridiculousness of that position. This is why I keep insisting he has zero interest in solving the problem. And that should be all you need to know. You don't need to know the underlying WHY or how he copes with it himself. He hates the sexlessness that HE enforced on you. How can it be all his fault though? Why does it *have* to be part your fault? |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 17:19:21 GMT -5
How can it be all his fault though? Why does it *have* to be part your fault? Because I didn't always act in a way that was conducive to the fixing of this.. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 17:34:11 GMT -5
Maybe this is the point that we go back to the one Ultimate Truth here: the WHY does not matter (and that includes assignment of blame). What does matter is that he is not willing to man up and have sex with you on a regular basis. And you've spent 6 years trying to solve this problem.
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 17:41:02 GMT -5
Maybe this is the point that we go back to the one Ultimate Truth here: the WHY does not matter (and that includes assignment of blame). What does matter is that he is not willing to man up and have sex with you on a regular basis. And you've spent 6 years trying to solve this problem. I keep coming back to: but if I handled it better/nicer, could it have been fixed years ago? |
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Post by baza on Dec 5, 2016 17:56:51 GMT -5
Q - " if I handled it better/nicer, could it have been fixed years ago? "
A - " no ".
Many many jaded marriages have the underlying functionality to get fixed.
And many of them, by dint of the spouses being on the same page, DO get fixed.
But once your deal has transitioned from "jaded marriage" to "ILIASM shithole", that's it.
If your deal ever was "fixable", it would have been fixed years ago, you'd now be happy, and you'd never have googled 'sexless marriage'.
Facts on the ground are that your deal never was fixable.
6 years of history is testament to that.
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 18:11:17 GMT -5
Q - " if I handled it better/nicer, could it have been fixed years ago? " A - " no ". Many many jaded marriages have the underlying functionality to get fixed. And many of them, by dint of the spouses being on the same page, DO get fixed. But once your deal has transitioned from "jaded marriage" to "ILIASM shithole", that's it. If your deal ever was "fixable", it would have been fixed years ago, you'd now be happy, and you'd never have googled 'sexless marriage'. Facts on the ground are that your deal never was fixable. 6 years of history is testament to that. I know you're right, baza. I wish it would've gone the "fixable" route years ago, and it could have. I think that's what's so infuriating. It seems to be the common opinion and fact after reading over this and living in it for 6 years that it's not. I'm to the point now that I have to process that and make tough decisions.  |
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Post by baza on Dec 5, 2016 18:32:01 GMT -5
You have in fact, ALREADY made a tough choice.
You have chosen to remain in an ILIASM shithole for 6 years so far.
Whether that is a choice that has been in your longer term best interests could be debated, but the legitimacy of your choice to stay can not be debated. It is a perfectly legitimate choice.
As is cheating.
As is leaving.
Your next choice, in light of the circumstances as of today, is entirely yours.
More of the same ? - that is a perfectly legitimate choice.
Cheating ? Leaving ? - 2 more perfectly legitimate choices available to you.
And, each of the choices is tough.
And, given that ALL the 3 choices are tough, perhaps the guiding principle needs to be the one that is in your longer term best interests.
Under that model, it would appear that staying would not meet that criteria.
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 19:24:28 GMT -5
You have in fact, ALREADY made a tough choice. You have chosen to remain in an ILIASM shithole for 6 years so far. Whether that is a choice that has been in your longer term best interests could be debated, but the legitimacy of your choice to stay can not be debated. It is a perfectly legitimate choice. As is cheating. As is leaving. Your next choice, in light of the circumstances as of today, is entirely yours. More of the same ? - that is a perfectly legitimate choice. Cheating ? Leaving ? - 2 more perfectly legitimate choices available to you. And, each of the choices is tough. And, given that ALL the 3 choices are tough, perhaps the guiding principle needs to be the one that is in your longer term best interests. Under that model, it would appear that staying would not meet that criteria. Good point. It's all a choice. Cheating really doesn't feel like an option for me, and staying hasn't produced any sort of results so far. I like the idea of long term best interest. It does seem like leaving would give the most hope against something that is 99.99999% likely to keep repeating... |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 5, 2016 19:41:34 GMT -5
Yikes..just skimmed so far but seems to describe him well. Sadly, I don't think he even realizes he does this. Once I learned about DARVO, and manipulative control, I started confronting my STBX about it. She was used to me walking away in bewilderment, with a "what just happened look and feeling" instead once I started using words like "You want to control, there you go denying what I said, you haven't answered the question, that wasn't what I was talking about, I say no, that's your opinion, I said no, I am not going to do it, you do it, you spend it, I disagree, stop controlling everything, you are not always right, you don't want to face reality, rejection, rejection, rejection, that's what you do best, etc......" Knowing her manipulation was ending, that left me with her avoiding any communication. Relieving me of the FOG. The Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. Can't stay married to a non-communicator. Sex is a priceless form of communication involving passion, trust, openness, caring, giving, receiving and sharing reserved for one person on the planet, that's why you married him, and aren't room-mates, he broke that vow, promise, covenant, THIS IS WERE HE GETS !00% BLAME. It's even playing to my advantage during the divorce. Who do you think looks like the one not willing to negotiate? Judges don't have time for that. Things will be in your favor. |
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