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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 20:55:35 GMT -5
Yikes..just skimmed so far but seems to describe him well. Sadly, I don't think he even realizes he does this. Once I learned about DARVO, and manipulative control, I started confronting my STBX about it. She was used to me walking away in bewilderment, with a "what just happened look and feeling" instead once I started using words like "You want to control, there you go denying what I said, you haven't answered the question, that wasn't what I was talking about, I say no, that's your opinion, I said no, I am not going to do it, you do it, you spend it, I disagree, stop controlling everything, you are not always right, you don't want to face reality, rejection, rejection, rejection, that's what you do best, etc......" Knowing her manipulation was ending, that left me with her avoiding any communication. Relieving me of the FOG. The Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. Can't stay married to a non-communicator. Sex is a priceless form of communication involving passion, trust, openness, caring, giving, receiving and sharing reserved for one person on the planet, that's why you married him, and aren't room-mates, he broke that vow, promise, covenant, THIS IS WERE HE GETS !00% BLAME. It's even playing to my advantage during the divorce. Who do you think looks like the one not willing to negotiate? Judges don't have time for that. Things will be in your favor. Ugh, that sounds rough.  I don't know how much control or not control is going on in our relationship, but I'm sure it exists. Totally agree with you on the room-mate thing. I make that point ALL the time to him. It's more than just sex. I can't see my husband not negotiating. I just see him being very hurt and wanting to move on immediately. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 5, 2016 21:19:05 GMT -5
It does sound rough, doesn't it? It takes time. You have to gain ground. Welcome to the world of recovery from a marriage were you were emotionally abused.You have been giving for far to long. It's time for some taking, taking control.
If you were buying a $100.00 item at the store and you gave the cashier the exact amount, and the cashier put it in the register and then asked for another $100.00 would you give it to them? How many times? Would you ask for a manager? Suppose they are the manager, would you leave the store and call the law? Would you shop there again?
Your still in that giving stage, handing the cashier money. The lights are coming on for you.
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 21:52:08 GMT -5
The low libido spouse has total control over the relationship. Not just the sex, but pretty much everything.
How many times have you done something or not done something because it may adversely impact the pitiful sex you are getting? How much thinking do you do about your sex problem, plotting and scheming to change it? In fact, doesn't the sex problem dominate your thinking now? Now, that's control. And he doesn't have to say anything or do anything to wield that control.
Eventually you will wake up and realize that no matter what you do or don't do, say or don't say, you ain't gettin' any. That's when the control he now wields breaks down. But by then the marriage is totally trashed.
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Post by JMX on Dec 5, 2016 22:05:56 GMT -5
Again, this thread has been the most valuable thread for a newbie I have ever had the pleasure of reading! Thank you to all. joy6016 you, also, have done an excellent job explaining your feelings. It is a great example of the newbies that get here and what unfolds after months of posting stories. You are already way ahead on this. I have one question, even though I agree with the others that "it doesn't really matter" - I am curious how ridiculously giving you might be. It's a common trait here. What did you do in your handling of this situation that could have been "nicer" or how could you have "handled it better"? Many of us bend to the left, the right, backwards. Some create acrobatic feats of excellence - a'la Linda Blair on the Exorcist's head twisting all the way around. We are all possessed in some way  Separate comment (really, an acknowledgement of how you must be feeling right now): some of the info dump you got on this thread has been so loaded - I cannot imagine what the last couple of days has been like for you. All probably things you didn't want to hear or know on this level. Girl, you got an ILIASM baptism by fire! I hope you are able to sit with it, really think about it and come away with at least: 1.). This is NOT your fault 2.). We all understand 3.) whatever you do from here, you have an immense knowledge you didn't have before posting here. 4.). We are all here for you no matter what you decide - everyone is truly gracious ❤️ |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 5, 2016 22:18:33 GMT -5
Ugh, that sounds rough. I can't see my husband not negotiating. I just see him being very hurt and wanting to move on immediately.I see him not negotiating. Its written all over your posts. Denny, He denies that its a problem. Attack (avoid) , It's not important. Reverse ,You go about it all wrong. Victom, I'll be devastated, crushed if you do this to me. Offender, you made me have to end everything. Being very hurt and want to move on immediately?. 5 yrs and holding. Nothings hurting him, he still has his lack of action, his money, and reputation. And control through manipulation. I think you are going to be in for a surprise when you make the tough, correct, call to end the marriage. Someone gets greedy, and someone gets angry. A person who is a manipulative controller does not just move on, that's giving up control. Again you have a war on your hands, start building your army of support. ( I feel like I am advising my daughter) |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 5, 2016 22:22:49 GMT -5
Again, this thread has been the most valuable thread for a newbie I have ever had the pleasure of reading! Thank you to all. joy6016 you, also, have done an excellent job explaining your feelings. It is a great example of the newbies that get here and what unfolds after months of posting stories. You are already way ahead on this. I have one question, even though I agree with the others that "it doesn't really matter" - I am curious how ridiculously giving you might be. It's a common trait here. What did you do in your handling of this situation that could have been "nicer" or how could you have "handled it better"? Many of us bend to the left, the right, backwards. Some create acrobatic feats of excellence - a'la Linda Blair on the Exorcist's head twisting all the way around. We are all possessed in some way Separate comment (really, an acknowledgement of how you must be feeling right now): some of the info dump you got on this thread has been so loaded - I cannot imagine what the last couple of days has been like for you. All probably things you didn't want to hear or know on this level. Girl, you got an ILIASM baptism by fire! I hope you are able to sit with it, really think about it and come away with at least: 1.). This is NOT your fault 2.). We all understand 3.) whatever you do from here, you have an immense knowledge you didn't have before posting here. 4.). We are all here for you no matter what you decide - everyone is truly gracious ❤️ So well stated!! Yes! please keep us informed, feel free to ask the same things repeatedly, if needed. Share the good , the bad, and the ugly. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 7, 2016 12:27:39 GMT -5
It does sound rough, doesn't it? It takes time. You have to gain ground. Welcome to the world of recovery from a marriage were you were emotionally abused.You have been giving for far to long. It's time for some taking, taking control. If you were buying a $100.00 item at the store and you gave the cashier the exact amount, and the cashier put it in the register and then asked for another $100.00 would you give it to them? How many times? Would you ask for a manager? Suppose they are the manager, would you leave the store and call the law? Would you shop there again? Your still in that giving stage, handing the cashier money. The lights are coming on for you. How is it emotional abuse? I'm asking honestly, as I've read about emotional abuse and he doesn't really meet any of the criteria. Good example. It's true. I do feel like I keep giving and resetting things as "we're going to work on it" and it never changes. That's why, again, he knows the stakes, knows things are changing or we're done. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 7, 2016 12:28:58 GMT -5
The low libido spouse has total control over the relationship. Not just the sex, but pretty much everything. How many times have you done something or not done something because it may adversely impact the pitiful sex you are getting? How much thinking do you do about your sex problem, plotting and scheming to change it? In fact, doesn't the sex problem dominate your thinking now? Now, that's control. And he doesn't have to say anything or do anything to wield that control. Eventually you will wake up and realize that no matter what you do or don't do, say or don't say, you ain't gettin' any. That's when the control he now wields breaks down. But by then the marriage is totally trashed. He claims he isn't low libido. I know that's laughable to everyone, but it's hard to argue that when that's how he feels. Ugh, I think about it all the time. ALL the time. Like even if things are going well for us (non-sexually, of course), I remember that this is a problem. It's not good to focus on bad stuff that much, but it's amost impossible not to at this point. Yeah, he now really knows how close I am/was to leaving, so if no action is taken, I really have my answer. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 7, 2016 12:33:42 GMT -5
Again, this thread has been the most valuable thread for a newbie I have ever had the pleasure of reading! Thank you to all. joy6016 you, also, have done an excellent job explaining your feelings. It is a great example of the newbies that get here and what unfolds after months of posting stories. You are already way ahead on this. I have one question, even though I agree with the others that "it doesn't really matter" - I am curious how ridiculously giving you might be. It's a common trait here. What did you do in your handling of this situation that could have been "nicer" or how could you have "handled it better"? Many of us bend to the left, the right, backwards. Some create acrobatic feats of excellence - a'la Linda Blair on the Exorcist's head twisting all the way around. We are all possessed in some way Separate comment (really, an acknowledgement of how you must be feeling right now): some of the info dump you got on this thread has been so loaded - I cannot imagine what the last couple of days has been like for you. All probably things you didn't want to hear or know on this level. Girl, you got an ILIASM baptism by fire! I hope you are able to sit with it, really think about it and come away with at least: 1.). This is NOT your fault 2.). We all understand 3.) whatever you do from here, you have an immense knowledge you didn't have before posting here. 4.). We are all here for you no matter what you decide - everyone is truly gracious ❤️ I totally agree, JMX! Everyone here is amazing and so incredibly helpful. I'm immensely grateful. <3 And thank you for the kind words! Even though therapy and speaking to close friends has been helpful, it's never 100% helpful as these people aren't in a SM. It's nice to be able to explain my feelings and have people truly relate, even though I wish they didn't. I think I definitely could've been nicer. I think I've been giving in the sense that I've given a LOT of chances and time for this to improve, but I have been mean when I should've been kind, not understanding when I should have been, and flipped out when I should've calmly explained my feelings. I've fought with exes before and it gets emotional, but nothing like the rage I've felt during a SM. And granted, this is my longest term relationship, so it was bound to be more intense, but I've never felt the hopelessness, frustration and rage liked this before. And I acted out - semi-yelling, swearing, questioning manliness. I know - not good stuff. I'm not proud of it. Thats's why I feel that I could never blame him 100%, because who else would deal with my outbursts over this? It's almost like part of me feels like I don't deserve a sex life for being how I was towards him. I've gotten nicer and changed my approach a lot recently, but I still get upset. It's not as bad as it used to be though, as I realized it was definitely not helpful. Thank you again for your kindness and understanding! I feel like I'm more equipped to deal with this than I've ever been before. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 7, 2016 12:36:11 GMT -5
Ugh, that sounds rough. I can't see my husband not negotiating. I just see him being very hurt and wanting to move on immediately.I see him not negotiating. Its written all over your posts. Denny, He denies that its a problem. Attack (avoid) , It's not important. Reverse ,You go about it all wrong. Victom, I'll be devastated, crushed if you do this to me. Offender, you made me have to end everything. Being very hurt and want to move on immediately?. 5 yrs and holding. Nothings hurting him, he still has his lack of action, his money, and reputation. And control through manipulation. I think you are going to be in for a surprise when you make the tough, correct, call to end the marriage. Someone gets greedy, and someone gets angry. A person who is a manipulative controller does not just move on, that's giving up control. Again you have a war on your hands, start building your army of support. ( I feel like I am advising my daughter) Yeah, you are right, greatcoastal. I do see a lot of that in your example. I just don't know what he gets from this if he truly is sexual and won't do anything. I'm kind of back to questioning myself and if what I did over the years was truly too damaging. As I mentioned in another post, I didn't always handle things so well. I started out nice, and I'm back to being much nicer and more understanding, calm, etc., but for a while, I was anything but that. I do regret how I've handled some of this... I think he would just shut me out if we ended things. We would have to talk at first about division of stuff and pets, but that would be it. I would want to move on sooner than later because it would be so stressful to live like that. It would be hard to have someone who currently speaks so highly of me, to basically hate me in an instant. Thank you for your advice. It's so appreciated! I'm definitely doing what I can to be very prepared if/when I do go. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 7, 2016 12:56:43 GMT -5
I think I definitely could've been nicer. I think I've been giving in the sense that I've given a LOT of chances and time for this to improve, but I have been mean when I should've been kind, not understanding when I should have been, and flipped out when I should've calmly explained my feelings. I've fought with exes before and it gets emotional, but nothing like the rage I've felt during a SM. And granted, this is my longest term relationship, so it was bound to be more intense, but I've never felt the hopelessness, frustration and rage liked this before. And I acted out - semi-yelling, swearing, questioning manliness. I know - not good stuff. I'm not proud of it. Thats's why I feel that I could never blame him 100%, because who else would deal with my outbursts over this? It's almost like part of me feels like I don't deserve a sex life for being how I was towards him. I've gotten nicer and changed my approach a lot recently, but I still get upset. It's not as bad as it used to be though, as I realized it was definitely not helpful. Thank you again for your kindness and understanding! I feel like I'm more equipped to deal with this than I've ever been before. Joy, if your husband locked you in a room and refused to feed you, you would first be kind to him. You would try to sweet talk him into feeding you. As the days passed, you would become increasingly strident as the hunger pangs increased. No one would ever fault you for yelling at your husband/jailor who refused to feed you. Withholding sex is no different, it just plays out over time. I can assure you that no one here that has been in a LT SM does not regret a few things, or many things, they said to their spouses. He withholds sex You get increasingly miserable At some point you reach the breaking point and the negative emotions spew out And now it's your fault?  This is a form of abuse. Especially if he holds your badder moments against you. It is a form of torture. I know, he's really a nice guy. But he is what he is, and he did fuck his way (just barely) into an enforced monogamous relationship with you... |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 7, 2016 13:02:26 GMT -5
He claims he isn't low libido. I know that's laughable to everyone, but it's hard to argue that when that's how he feels. Ugh, I think about it all the time. ALL the time. Like even if things are going well for us (non-sexually, of course), I remember that this is a problem. It's not good to focus on bad stuff that much, but it's amost impossible not to at this point. Yeah, he now really knows how close I am/was to leaving, so if no action is taken, I really have my answer. The argument is quite simple and you should use it the next time he gas lights you with that BS: "OK, if you have a high libido, exactly what have you been doing with it the past 5 years while you haven't been fucking me?" Of course you think about it all the time. If he locked you in a room and refused to feed you, then after a week you'd think about food all the time. Eventually you'd think of nothing else. Your morals would fall by the wayside. You'd literally kill to get some food. Or you'd cheat to get some sex. No wonder Ashley Madison was so successful.... |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 7, 2016 13:09:05 GMT -5
The low libido spouse has total control over the relationship. Not just the sex, but pretty much everything. How many times have you done something or not done something because it may adversely impact the pitiful sex you are getting? How much thinking do you do about your sex problem, plotting and scheming to change it? In fact, doesn't the sex problem dominate your thinking now? Now, that's control. And he doesn't have to say anything or do anything to wield that control. Eventually you will wake up and realize that no matter what you do or don't do, say or don't say, you ain't gettin' any. That's when the control he now wields breaks down. But by then the marriage is totally trashed. He claims he isn't low libido. I know that's laughable to everyone, but it's hard to argue that when that's how he feels. Ugh, I think about it all the time. ALL the time. Like even if things are going well for us (non-sexually, of course), I remember that this is a problem. It's not good to focus on bad stuff that much, but it's amost impossible not to at this point. Yeah, he now really knows how close I am/was to leaving, so if no action is taken, I really have my answer. The wonders of language when applied to the realm of human feelings. I'm not low libido because I say I'm not, and you have no right to judge me because this is the way I feel, and it wouldn't be fair to compare my libido to anyone else's libido because it is only my libido that matters. And i'm not low libido. Cause i said so. Ugh. May we all be set free. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 7, 2016 13:12:20 GMT -5
He claims he isn't low libido. I know that's laughable to everyone, but it's hard to argue that when that's how he feels. Ugh, I think about it all the time. ALL the time. Like even if things are going well for us (non-sexually, of course), I remember that this is a problem. It's not good to focus on bad stuff that much, but it's amost impossible not to at this point. Yeah, he now really knows how close I am/was to leaving, so if no action is taken, I really have my answer. The wonders of language when applied to the realm of human feelings. I'm not low libido because I say I'm not, and you have no right to judge me because this is the way I feel, and it wouldn't be fair to compare my libido to anyone else's libido because it is only my libido that matters. And i'm not low libido. Cause i said so. Ugh. May we all be set free. Beachguy's Maxim #22: The more laughable the argument the more hopeless the prognosis |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 7, 2016 13:17:48 GMT -5
He claims he isn't low libido. I know that's laughable to everyone, but it's hard to argue that when that's how he feels. Ugh, I think about it all the time. ALL the time. Like even if things are going well for us (non-sexually, of course), I remember that this is a problem. It's not good to focus on bad stuff that much, but it's amost impossible not to at this point. Yeah, he now really knows how close I am/was to leaving, so if no action is taken, I really have my answer. The argument is quite simple and you should use it the next time he gas lights you with that BS: "OK, if you have a high libido, exactly what have you been doing with it the past 5 years while you haven't been fucking me?" Of course you think about it all the time. If he locked you in a room and refused to feed you, then after a week you'd think about food all the time. Eventually you'd think of nothing else. Your morals would fall by the wayside. You'd literally kill to get some food. Or you'd cheat to get some sex. No wonder Ashley Madison was so successful.... On second thought don't bother with that argument. Just leave. You will never argue or reason or debate your way into a good sex life with an asexual. |
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I don't know how much control or not control is going on in our relationship, but I'm sure it exists.
