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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 15:08:16 GMT -5
" He thinks that we just stopped doing it as much, I felt rejected, and he said he didn't want to perpetuate the thing that made me feel rejected, which in his mind = sex. Well no, it's the LACK of sex that caused my rejection. It seems kind of backwards in his mind..." I just suggested that was a bunch of manipulative gas lighting BS. Let's be more charitable. Let's say he is being perfectly honest. If THAT was his response to your neglect, do you have any hope whatsoever that he gets anything well enough to fix this? You said you feel like you are BOTH failures. Much of what he has said to you is an effort (a manipulation) to get you to at least share in HIS failure. Because it is most likely he is the one (and only one) with a sexual problem, not you. Ironically, your biggest failure was likely not terminating a hopeless situation before even marrying him. Like his other GF's managed to do. And I think you previously said that you either temporarily broke up prior to the marriage or at least had some serious fights? If I'm correct on that, you cannot solve that type of failure by staying in the marriage. You can only solve it by doing what should have been done long, long ago. And believe me, I am equally guilty of this. I spent 30 years trying to live with my mistake. And I knew it was a mistake halfway through the honeymoon. Probably not. Or at least it's probably true that he's incapable of moving past my hurt feelings enough to be sexual with me. Either way, it doesn't work out. Yeah, he really doesn't want to be the one with full blame. I don't let him take all the blame because I was definitely not as nice, nor did I handle it as well as I should have a lot of the time. I didn't know how to though, and I told him that. I stopped "trying" in an overtly sexual way long ago because it hurt too much to be turned down even when I wasn't overtly sexual. It's like I can never act sexy or normal or non-rejected enough to get him to be sexual with me. See, I really didn't feel like I was making a mistake until much later. We didn't fight much, and the SM (relationship, at the time - and by sexless, it was maybe 3x per week versus a few times per day, then down to once a week, once every two weeks max by the wedding). Before the wedding, it was just a slight issue that I was sure we'd get past quickly. The night of our wedding and our honeymoon bothered me, but again, I was still pretty happy. It wasn't until years later, without change, that I thought we MIGHT not work out. It was a big might because I still loved being with him. Only in the last year or so has it become a huge question as to whether or not we stay together. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 15:10:17 GMT -5
Yeah, it feels like a runaround, and again, it will be remain to be seen over the next few weeks. Before, I think he doubted the seriousness, but not now. He knows I almost left and he gave me the out of him taking the fall for it. I couldn't do it though. He keeps saying he's all in and it'll get better, etc. The past has told me other wise, but I can't just go yet. So I shouldn't force him to talk about our past? I feel like I might have to. I don't think there's anything really deep and dark there with him, as in a secret. But I think just glossing over it is a mistake. No, I do not think you should force him to talk about the past, *AND* I think you should just leave. However, the worst thing you could do is to stay in the marriage, trying to make it work, without forcing that discussion. But if you force the discussion you may get some very unwanted and very serious drama. Which is why I think you should just leave. This is a no win situation. By refusing to discuss the past, he is leading you down a path that cannot result in any serious progress. Or understanding of the core problem. It is pure avoidance on his part. Why would it cause drama? |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 15:11:13 GMT -5
Joy, your husband has told you that he would rather you end the marriage, and he take the fall for it, then to discuss the past and what precipitated the sexlessness. That should tell you something. In fact, it should tell you everything you need to know about the "WHY". He said he didn't want it to end, but if I wanted to go, he would take the fall so I wouldn't have to explain or feel like a failure to others. What does that have to do with the "why?" I'm missing something... |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 15:44:47 GMT -5
Joy, your husband has told you that he would rather you end the marriage, and he take the fall for it, then to discuss the past and what precipitated the sexlessness. That should tell you something. In fact, it should tell you everything you need to know about the "WHY". He said he didn't want it to end, but if I wanted to go, he would take the fall so I wouldn't have to explain or feel like a failure to others. What does that have to do with the "why?" I'm missing something... He would rather let the marriage blow up then talk about the past. He won't talk about the past because there is something he doesn't want to tell you. He is tap dancing around his problem, it is obvious from your description of his position. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 15:48:48 GMT -5
" He thinks that we just stopped doing it as much, I felt rejected, and he said he didn't want to perpetuate the thing that made me feel rejected, which in his mind = sex. Well no, it's the LACK of sex that caused my rejection. It seems kind of backwards in his mind..." I just suggested that was a bunch of manipulative gas lighting BS. Let's be more charitable. Let's say he is being perfectly honest. If THAT was his response to your neglect, do you have any hope whatsoever that he gets anything well enough to fix this? You said you feel like you are BOTH failures. Much of what he has said to you is an effort (a manipulation) to get you to at least share in HIS failure. Because it is most likely he is the one (and only one) with a sexual problem, not you. Ironically, your biggest failure was likely not terminating a hopeless situation before even marrying him. Like his other GF's managed to do. And I think you previously said that you either temporarily broke up prior to the marriage or at least had some serious fights? If I'm correct on that, you cannot solve that type of failure by staying in the marriage. You can only solve it by doing what should have been done long, long ago. And believe me, I am equally guilty of this. I spent 30 years trying to live with my mistake. And I knew it was a mistake halfway through the honeymoon. Probably not. Or at least it's probably true that he's incapable of moving past my hurt feelings enough to be sexual with me. Either way, it doesn't work out. Yeah, he really doesn't want to be the one with full blame. I don't let him take all the blame because I was definitely not as nice, nor did I handle it as well as I should have a lot of the time. I didn't know how to though, and I told him that. I stopped "trying" in an overtly sexual way long ago because it hurt too much to be turned down even when I wasn't overtly sexual. It's like I can never act sexy or normal or non-rejected enough to get him to be sexual with me. See, I really didn't feel like I was making a mistake until much later. We didn't fight much, and the SM (relationship, at the time - and by sexless, it was maybe 3x per week versus a few times per day, then down to once a week, once every two weeks max by the wedding). Before the wedding, it was just a slight issue that I was sure we'd get past quickly. The night of our wedding and our honeymoon bothered me, but again, I was still pretty happy. It wasn't until years later, without change, that I thought we MIGHT not work out. It was a big might because I still loved being with him. Only in the last year or so has it become a huge question as to whether or not we stay together. Your pre-marital timeline almost exactly tracks mine. At some point I came to the conclusion that she (barely) fucked her way to a wedding. And she did it by fucking me as little as she possibly could. If things had declined to once every two weeks for the 6 months prior to the wedding, it probably would never have happened? By the time you were down to every other week the wedding train was moving so fast it was scary to jump off? Or maybe you were less troubled by things - at the time! - than I was. Maybe it took you a couple of years to come to grips with your sexuality and the major incompatibility you had? |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 15:59:54 GMT -5
He said he didn't want it to end, but if I wanted to go, he would take the fall so I wouldn't have to explain or feel like a failure to others. What does that have to do with the "why?" I'm missing something... He would rather let the marriage blow up then talk about the past. He won't talk about the past because there is something he doesn't want to tell you. He is tap dancing around his problem, it is obvious from your description of his position. Maybe so, or he doesn't want to realize that that's where it broke and he has no excuse, like you said earlier. He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 16:00:59 GMT -5
Probably not. Or at least it's probably true that he's incapable of moving past my hurt feelings enough to be sexual with me. Either way, it doesn't work out. Yeah, he really doesn't want to be the one with full blame. I don't let him take all the blame because I was definitely not as nice, nor did I handle it as well as I should have a lot of the time. I didn't know how to though, and I told him that. I stopped "trying" in an overtly sexual way long ago because it hurt too much to be turned down even when I wasn't overtly sexual. It's like I can never act sexy or normal or non-rejected enough to get him to be sexual with me. See, I really didn't feel like I was making a mistake until much later. We didn't fight much, and the SM (relationship, at the time - and by sexless, it was maybe 3x per week versus a few times per day, then down to once a week, once every two weeks max by the wedding). Before the wedding, it was just a slight issue that I was sure we'd get past quickly. The night of our wedding and our honeymoon bothered me, but again, I was still pretty happy. It wasn't until years later, without change, that I thought we MIGHT not work out. It was a big might because I still loved being with him. Only in the last year or so has it become a huge question as to whether or not we stay together. Your pre-marital timeline almost exactly tracks mine. At some point I came to the conclusion that she (barely) fucked her way to a wedding. And she did it by fucking me as little as she possibly could. If things had declined to once every two weeks for the 6 months prior to the wedding, it probably would never have happened? By the time you were down to every other week the wedding train was moving so fast it was scary to jump off? Or maybe you were less troubled by things - at the time! - than I was. Maybe it took you a couple of years to come to grips with your sexuality and the major incompatibility you had? Hmmmm... I probably would've thought about it more. The wedding train really never stopped me, maybe for more than a very brief second. I never really questioned if he was right for me or not - it just felt right. It felt like this was a phase or something, and at THAT time, everything else was still so good that it was almost easy to look the other way. The years of resentment and confusion hadn't built up yet, I think. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 16:05:45 GMT -5
He would rather let the marriage blow up then talk about the past. He won't talk about the past because there is something he doesn't want to tell you. He is tap dancing around his problem, it is obvious from your description of his position. Maybe so, or he doesn't want to realize that that's where it broke and he has no excuse, like you said earlier. He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that. "He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that." Thus putting the fault squarely on you. I'll hazard a guess that you'd like to tell him that he's a fucking idiot for even suggesting that. But you can't because to do so would be abusive. That's manipulation. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 16:13:17 GMT -5
Maybe so, or he doesn't want to realize that that's where it broke and he has no excuse, like you said earlier. He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that. "He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that." Thus putting the fault squarely on you. I'll hazard a guess that you'd like to tell him that he's fucking idiot for even suggesting that. But you can't because to do so would be abusive. That's manipulation. Yeah, it's annoying because back then, I feel that it would've been easy to just have sex and solve the issues. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 16:16:16 GMT -5
"He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that." Thus putting the fault squarely on you. I'll hazard a guess that you'd like to tell him that he's fucking idiot for even suggesting that. But you can't because to do so would be abusive. That's manipulation. Yeah, it's annoying because back then, I feel that it would've been easy to just have sex and solve the issues. You might be missing my point. Either by accident or design, he has constructed an inarguable argument. It is too silly, too irrational, too totally stupid to argue. I faced that many times during my attempts to resolve my SM. When it comes to SMs I don't believe in accidents but they are possible I guess... |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 16:19:36 GMT -5
Yeah, it's annoying because back then, I feel that it would've been easy to just have sex and solve the issues. You might be missing my point. Either by accident or design, he has constructed an inarguable argument. It is too silly, too irrational, too totally stupid to argue. I faced that many times during my attempts to resolve my SM. When it comes to SMs I don't believe in accidents but they are possible I guess... So you're saying there was never any fixing it, in his mind? |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 5, 2016 16:26:17 GMT -5
Maybe so, or he doesn't want to realize that that's where it broke and he has no excuse, like you said earlier. He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that. "He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that." Thus putting the fault squarely on you. I'll hazard a guess that you'd like to tell him that he's a fucking idiot for even suggesting that. But you can't because to do so would be abusive. That's manipulation. This guy has a Masters Degree from DARVO university! Also sounds like another classic case of "acts of service" for him, the never ending treadmill for her. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 16:30:30 GMT -5
You might be missing my point. Either by accident or design, he has constructed an inarguable argument. It is too silly, too irrational, too totally stupid to argue. I faced that many times during my attempts to resolve my SM. When it comes to SMs I don't believe in accidents but they are possible I guess... So you're saying there was never any fixing it, in his mind? I'm saying it is quite coincidental that his position on the genesis of the sexlessness cannot be easily argued without you yourself being abusive. That just... might be manipulative. "So you're saying there was never any fixing it , in his mind?" Fixed it for you. I would not say anything with certainty about what is going on in his mind. The only thing I can say with as much certainty as humanly possible is that he has given you no indication whatsoever that he is actually interested in solving the problem, and that is consistent with the near certainty all of us have here that it can't be fixed. As you said, it is remarkably and most frustratingly easy to fix, *if* it is fixable. All he has to do is get it up and stick it in you. This is a lot easier than cooking dinner, for example. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 5, 2016 16:32:10 GMT -5
You might be missing my point. Either by accident or design, he has constructed an inarguable argument. It is too silly, too irrational, too totally stupid to argue. I faced that many times during my attempts to resolve my SM. When it comes to SMs I don't believe in accidents but they are possible I guess... So you're saying there was never any fixing it, in his mind? No need to fix it, he's having his needs filled. His mask serves him well, any attempt to remove it, all he has to do is pull back with his words a little right into his safe zone. Your needs are irrelevant. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 5, 2016 16:35:11 GMT -5
"He does claim that those early days are when the pattern/vicious cycle was started. But he says it comes from my feeling rejected and him not wanting to do stuff with someone who felt like that." Thus putting the fault squarely on you. I'll hazard a guess that you'd like to tell him that he's a fucking idiot for even suggesting that. But you can't because to do so would be abusive. That's manipulation. This guy has a Masters Degree from DARVO university! Also sounds like another classic case of "acts of service" for him, the never ending treadmill for her. |
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