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Post by JMX on Dec 4, 2016 23:29:30 GMT -5
He claims he can't just have sex to have sex, especially if he knows I'm upset. Diversion. Plain, and simple. He will not come out and admit that he has NO DESIRE, NO SEX DRIVE. You are aware of the reasons. Fear, past trauma, etc...all of them or one of them , the why doesn't matter. Back again to filling your needs. Seriously , and with respect and kindness, a dog would do a better job of giving you love, attention and affection. (voice of experience) Having sex, just to have sex, is a normal reaction to a lover that IS upset, especially about not having sex. My husband claims (in a way) he cannot have sex while we have financial problems. Lol! Seriously? You have no money to go out, but the kids are at nana's - what is the best entertainment when you are without money? Both excuses, no matter their "feelings" are the same. |
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Post by JMX on Dec 4, 2016 23:29:37 GMT -5
He claims he can't just have sex to have sex, especially if he knows I'm upset. Diversion. Plain, and simple. He will not come out and admit that he has NO DESIRE, NO SEX DRIVE. You are aware of the reasons. Fear, past trauma, etc...all of them or one of them , the why doesn't matter. Back again to filling your needs. Seriously , and with respect and kindness, a dog would do a better job of giving you love, attention and affection. (voice of experience) Having sex, just to have sex, is a normal reaction to a lover that IS upset, especially about not having sex. My husband claims (in a way) he cannot have sex while we have financial problems. Lol! Seriously? You have no money to go out, but the kids are at nana's - what is the best entertainment when you are without money? Both excuses, no matter their "feelings" are the same. |
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Post by JMX on Dec 4, 2016 23:30:22 GMT -5
He claims he can't just have sex to have sex, especially if he knows I'm upset. Diversion. Plain, and simple. He will not come out and admit that he has NO DESIRE, NO SEX DRIVE. You are aware of the reasons. Fear, past trauma, etc...all of them or one of them , the why doesn't matter. Back again to filling your needs. Seriously , and with respect and kindness, a dog would do a better job of giving you love, attention and affection. (voice of experience) Having sex, just to have sex, is a normal reaction to a lover that IS upset, especially about not having sex. My husband claims (in a way) he cannot have sex while we have financial problems. Lol! Seriously? You have no money to go out, but the kids are at nana's - what is the best entertainment when you are without money? Both excuses, no matter their "feelings" are the same. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 4, 2016 23:41:11 GMT -5
Hey joy6016, how much of this revolves around money? How secure are the both of you without each others paycheck? How important is money to your husband? An absurd example: every day for two weeks, you withdraw $1000.00 from his account. Tell him "that's what you take away from me every day, my respect, self worth, confidence, trust. I have it back now it's mine to do as I please, and it will continue that way with every dollar from your paycheck."
Just a hunch, a knee jerk reaction, to what myself and others have witnessed when divorce happens. All about control. Money really puts it in perspective. You replace intimacy/sex with money.
Would that give you the power, control over him ,like he has over you?
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 4, 2016 23:53:32 GMT -5
My husband claims (in a way) he cannot have sex while we have financial problems. Lol! Seriously? You have no money to go out, but the kids are at nana's - what is the best entertainment when you are without money? Both excuses, no matter their "feelings" are the same. On a side note. When I was younger there was a time when I post poned getting married, due to financial problems. Not feeling like I was "man" enough. Not a good provider. There had to be a certain safety, security, or comfort level. Even if it meant two or three jobs. Now that meant hardly seeing each other. Could that be a small piece of the puzzle, in the mind of a refuser? (didn't stop my sexual desires, but it slowed down the relationship some) |
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Post by JMX on Dec 4, 2016 23:58:19 GMT -5
My husband claims (in a way) he cannot have sex while we have financial problems. Lol! Seriously? You have no money to go out, but the kids are at nana's - what is the best entertainment when you are without money? Both excuses, no matter their "feelings" are the same. On a side note. When I was younger there was a time when I post poned getting married, due to financial problems. Not feeling like I was "man" enough. Not a good provider. There had to be a certain safety, security, or comfort level. Even if it meant two or three jobs. Now that meant hardly seeing each other. Could that be a small piece of the puzzle, in the mind of a refuser? (didn't stop my sexual desires, but it slowed down the relationship some) That is not our problem. Remember - he was fine not working for 2.5 years (although he was probably not fine). |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 9:30:22 GMT -5
joy6016 - I could have written your last paragraph word-for-word. I did write it - 3 years ago. I wish I could link my old EP stories here for you. You sound so much like me - in small but important ways. I do love my husband too. I do think he is a good person. My husband falls into "intimacy averse orientation" and I think it is a deep dark secret. It hurts me knowing some of his back story and correlating it to our SM. He has never really told me any of it, but I have pieced together much of it on my own through family interactions. Heartbreaking stuff that in a way has kept me in this situation - working to help him and losing myself. He could have been an alcoholic, a wife-abuser or a serial cheater. Instead, he reads fantasy books, plays video games and is (in my now opinion) emotionally abusive. It takes a bit to understand that there are the bad three OVERT abusive behaviors and the equally sinister covert abusive behavior. So, in a way, I have found my "why" and I understand it now. It does not make it easier when he charms me, does things for me now and generally is otherwise (improved but somewhat) affectionate. This is as "close" as he can get. It's as much as he can do. I don't hate HIM, I hate the situation and what I have allowed his shit to do to me. You may feel the same with the passing of time. I want the best for him - but it is not my monster. Your husband's hang-ups are not your monster to sleigh either. They are his, and as beachguy said - it could take years and even decades in this situation. Hi JMX, Thank you for your message. I'm really sorry to hear about your situation as well.  I wonder what his secret could be? I don't believe my husband has one, nor does he not spend time with me, etc. It's tough to see myself in every story because I feel like my husband is different in a lot of ways. That being said, he's still helping to perpetuate this issue, so he's not perfect. It is hard when they are charming, do nice things for you, promise to be better, say they want to have sex with you, etc. You're right that it's not my issue if he can't get any closer. I wish he could and I wish he had enough drive to just do it regardless. I said this in a few other comments, but things are very different this time. I know I can't have kids while things are like this, nor can I move forward if they aren't better. He knows that one way or another, things are changing. I'm headed out for a work trip soon, but the real test will be how he is while I'm gone and what it's like when I get back. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 9:37:51 GMT -5
joy6016 : So glad you have been able to "empty your cup" with us. I'm coming to this thread just a little late, and -- holy smokes! -- it is twelve pages long. I've read a several pages and heard lots of advice like "impose a timetable" and "it's not your fault." I agree! But here is one thing I haven't heard yet it what has been said: IF/WHEN YOU LEAVE HIM, YOU WILL FIND SOMEONE EQUALLY OR MORE WONDERFUL. Please repeat that over and over. Tape it to your dashboard. Write it on the back of a credit card. Tape it to your monitor at work. You need to KNOW this. I say this because I have the sense you need to hear it. You are SO YOUNG and will have SO MANY opportunities to meet men who are looking for a woman like you. Another reason I say it is... because of my parents' cassette tapes. They had a bunch that we would always listen to on car trips. One was the Seekers singing "I Know I'll Never Find Another You". It is a sweet song from the 1960's. And it seems to represent their devotion to each other. OK, fine, that is sweet. But somehow it made me think that there was ONLY ONE "right" person out there for me. And -- by some more illogical reasoning -- if I was with someone (dating steady), THAT person must be "the one". I've since realized the error in this line of thinking. I hope it is clear to you, too, after my little story. Just because he's a nice guy and you are habituated to his being around... that doesn't mean that he is the right one for you for the rest of your life. Hi Dan - thank you for your message and for saying that. I think I did need to hear it, and it's comforting to know that if/when I do go. My parents have also been together basically forever, so it's hard to think of "failing" in the form of divorcing, especially when they've made it through some really hard times. I think, like you, that I also wanted everyone I dated to be "the one," although it did feel different when I met my husband. It felt so effortless and easy, fun, and like I was completely myself. Of course, things are a little different now in that regard, but it's hard to still feel like he's not like other guys. It is an error in thinking in some ways, because I think there are many people out there who would be good for each of us. And when you said "that doesn't mean that he is the right one for you for the rest of your life" - it hit me that MAYBE, he was right for a time, but it's no longer right. I'm still in the process of determining that... |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 9:39:11 GMT -5
Also - what got me about what beachguy said - it never turns around for women here. Never. Once that sexual desire is gone, I believe you cannot get it back. Whatever the reason and how unfair it is, it won't ever come back. I am so sorry to say that. But it remains truth. Hi JMX - I wonder why that is? I feel like during the week I had very few sexual feelings, but once we talked, that wasn't necessarily true. It's not like they came flooding back at 100%, but it's like I could see myself being able to be sexual with him again. Again, it's not to say that it's going to work or that it wasn't just words that he wanted me to hear, but I did have feelings. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 9:56:19 GMT -5
He claims he can't just have sex to have sex, especially if he knows I'm upset. I can't really say someone else's feelings aren't valid, so how can I say that's wrong or not true? I agree that action NEEDS to happen. Without that, we cannot continue... and he knows this. He can't have sex just to have sex at this point. It won't work. BUT that doesn't mean he should do nothing. If he wants to make this relationship work he needs to find a way to rip his heart open and be fully, completely, physically and emotionally engaged with you because he can see that you need it. That is not having sex even though he doesn't feel it. That is rediscovering how much he loves you and what that means to him, even when what he really feels like is hiding behind his walls. That is what relationships are about. That is what you do for your kids when they need you. That is what you do for a parent when they are diagnosed with liver failure. And that is what makes the difference between a committed relationship and one where you just have two people who are willing to walk alongside each other as long as they still feel like it. Yeah, you're right, unmatched. Why can't he just have sex to have sex? I guess I would have trouble doing that too, so I get it a little bit. He does talk to me on a very emotional level about this, and about why he thinks it has happened, but still - nothing changes. We don't know how to "fix" this. I agree that he has to stop hiding and just kind of make some progress, which doesn't include simply talking more or being nicer. That's great but it never goes beyond that. I think that even if he wasn't jumping on top of me, I'd like SOME kind of progress that wasn't on a very low level and didn't only last a week or so. |
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Post by JMX on Dec 5, 2016 9:56:58 GMT -5
Also - what got me about what beachguy said - it never turns around for women here. Never. Once that sexual desire is gone, I believe you cannot get it back. Whatever the reason and how unfair it is, it won't ever come back. I am so sorry to say that. But it remains truth. Hi JMX - I wonder why that is? I feel like during the week I had very few sexual feelings, but once we talked, that wasn't necessarily true. It's not like they came flooding back at 100%, but it's like I could see myself being able to be sexual with him again. Again, it's not to say that it's going to work or that it wasn't just words that he wanted me to hear, but I did have feelings. I think men might operate differently. If they are not into you - even if they were previously, they are not as pliable to change. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 10:02:13 GMT -5
You know have pages and pages of priceless references to look back on. When I first came to this sight (EP) there was a lady on here who was a straight shooter. She would ask me, "have you lost your mind? Why do you continue to torture yourself?" I answered with, " honestly I have to go through the actions, and the words myself, I had to know that there was no doubt, my actions, words, the setting, the planning." All part of the step by step process of "change". Not him, not the refuser, but for you. You dear, have been, conditioned, processed, brain washed, manipulated for so long, it is going to take several "tipping points" to win the battle. You are in a battle. Your whole identity and freedom are being taken from you. How do you win such a war? By gaining ground. Like you are doing here. Gain ground through actions. Retreat when you have to, and regroup. Start building an army. Find people in your life who will be your silent sword bearer. A mentor. Find your joy,again. Continue to be a mentor for others, as you have shown, that you have that gift, that talent. Take it where it can help someone else, stop wasting it on the enemy. Someone who is going to be-little your gifts and strengths. You deserve to be cherished, you deserve that!!! Thank you, greatcoastal. I agree. I think I can see as much advice as I want, and I appreciate it a lot, but I still have to do things on my own time. I have to know that for ME, I've done what I could and left no stone unturned. We are rapidly approaching that point. Thank you for your kind words as well. I do want someone who can give me all aspects of a relationship, and he's running out of time to show me that it's him. I know he would be devastated if I left, but I have given him literally HUNDREDS of chances. I have accepted responsibility for my failings in this too. We've done counseling, although briefly. We've talked it to death. We've taken 1 step forward, 2 steps back...for YEARS. This is really and truly it. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 10:04:16 GMT -5
Hi JMX - I wonder why that is? I feel like during the week I had very few sexual feelings, but once we talked, that wasn't necessarily true. It's not like they came flooding back at 100%, but it's like I could see myself being able to be sexual with him again. Again, it's not to say that it's going to work or that it wasn't just words that he wanted me to hear, but I did have feelings. I think men might operate differently. If they are not into you - even if they were previously, they are not as pliable to change. Oh okay - so you're saying if my HUSBAND has lost interest, it can't come back? He claims that's not the case at all. Who knows though. I truly don't even know anymore.. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 10:05:17 GMT -5
He claims he can't just have sex to have sex, especially if he knows I'm upset. Diversion. Plain, and simple. He will not come out and admit that he has NO DESIRE, NO SEX DRIVE. You are aware of the reasons. Fear, past trauma, etc...all of them or one of them , the why doesn't matter. Back again to filling your needs. Seriously , and with respect and kindness, a dog would do a better job of giving you love, attention and affection. (voice of experience) He says it's because he doesn't know how to fix it since we both have such hurt feelings. I said let's just do it, and we both realized that would be tough because both of our feelings are so weird around sex together. Can something like that ever work again? That remains to be seen.. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 5, 2016 10:07:03 GMT -5
Diversion. Plain, and simple. He will not come out and admit that he has NO DESIRE, NO SEX DRIVE. You are aware of the reasons. Fear, past trauma, etc...all of them or one of them , the why doesn't matter. Back again to filling your needs. Seriously , and with respect and kindness, a dog would do a better job of giving you love, attention and affection. (voice of experience) Having sex, just to have sex, is a normal reaction to a lover that IS upset, especially about not having sex. My husband claims (in a way) he cannot have sex while we have financial problems. Lol! Seriously? You have no money to go out, but the kids are at nana's - what is the best entertainment when you are without money? Both excuses, no matter their "feelings" are the same. Good point, JMX. I've said that so many times - the solution is just to have sex! I get that that's tougher now with all the baggage, but it certainly wasn't 5+ years ago when this was a very easily fixable issue. Why couldn't he do it then? I really just thought of that because of your comment and it makes me look at things differently. It works as an excuse now, but not when it wasn't a big ordeal. LOL at the financial problems.. Sheesh. It's like we could have all the time and space in the world and they wouldn't want to fill that time with sex. |
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I wonder what his secret could be? I don't believe my husband has one, nor does he not spend time with me, etc. It's tough to see myself in every story because I feel like my husband is different in a lot of ways. That being said, he's still helping to perpetuate this issue, so he's not perfect.
