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Post by beachguy on Dec 2, 2016 17:28:38 GMT -5
All good points. And I really don't want to have to coerce him. I've said that so many times. Why do I have to beg? He says I don't have to. Yet, if I didn't say anything (and I've tried this by saying nothing for months at one point in time), it would not be discussed AND nothing would change. I get it.. I really do. It's nearly impossible to turn around, and if you do, it's brief or it's coerced. It's not really ever real again. I'm doing my best. I know I'm closer and closer to realizing the reality of it all, but it will still take a little bit of time to fully commit to leaving. I totally get what you mean about not wanting to have to coerce him. My wife is an asexual too, and she says that we dont have sex often because I don't pursue her. But if I do pursue, I have a fairly remote chance she will actually follow through on it, and she never seems to be very into it. We have discussed making sex a priority too, and making positive changes, but they never happen, and she blames me for them not. She even scheduled sex on google calendar once and sent me an invite, to which I responded that I would be attending. It didn't happen then either. Having to coerce someone into having sex with you is like having to beg someone to give you a birthday gift. Even if you do get one, it won't feel like an act of love. I don't want duty sex, I want passionate sex. Sadly, the lack of passion in my marriage has made me lose interest in pursuing her, so I have pretty much lost interest. Its hard to be passionate about starfish sex ... and its hard to be sexually attracted to someone who wears baggy, unflattering clothing all the time and is almost always too tired or has a headache to do anything fun. And by fun I don't mean sex ... I mean anything fun at all. It makes me sad. "Sadly, the lack of passion in my marriage has made me lose interest in pursuing her, so I have pretty much lost interest." Joy, see the pattern here? Eventually we all get worn down. After 10 or 20 years sometimes it's hard to tell the refused from the refuser, unless you have an accurate history book to refer to. I found initiating sex, in the rare times I succeeded, to be humiliating. I called it corpseplay. I stopped initiating and she never initiated. Not once in over 10 years, right up until a Talk she took seriously enough to reset me. But that was when I understood how done I was and how weird the sex was... too weird to do it any more. And it was all over. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 2, 2016 23:43:43 GMT -5
Hmmm makes more sense as an orientation versus a preference. I guess then asking him to go to therapy for intimacy issues/aversion wouldn't solve anything, correct? And what about other types of affection - he does (quick) kisses, hugs, cuddling, etc., so how could he be fully against intimacy? Do some research on intimacy aversion. My research says it takes years (read decades if ever) of intensive therapy because it is cooked into the personality at an early age in traumatic environments. With very guarded outlooks for success. And when you look for it, look for specific examples of statistics where people were actually cured. I doubt you will find any. I once considered doing a post here suggesting that intimacy aversion should be considered an orientation, at least in terms of fighting your way out of an SM. No different than asexuality or homosexuality. I don't know that 20 years of therapy can't turn a gay person straight, it just isn't politically correct to even suggest doing it. Same with asexuality. So let's say you suggest he go into therapy specifically to work on his intimacy aversion (which he has not been formally diagnosed with, we are just speculating on the big 3 possibilities!). He most likely will not agree to it, that based on the reports here that refusers very rarely seriously try to resolve their sexual issues. And I think you mentioned his previous reluctance to enter into counseling or therapy??? Now he spends 20 years in therapy. And it turns out he's really just gay or asexual. And now you're 50. I know that sounds far-fetched, but really, the idea that YOU are going to get HIM to commit to long term therapy for something he refuses to acknowledge as a problem is even more far-fetched. Believe it or not, most females here that have Husbands with ED problems can't get them to go to a urologist for a simple checkup and viagra scrip. And after they finally go, they almost never take the pills. Really. One of the weird things about male sexual issues is that most men refuse treatment. At least based on the many stories here. Of course, there are many female refusers discussed here that similarly refuse any treatment or even diagnosis related to their sexual disinterest. If it is unlikely you would get him to take a blue pill if that's what would solve his problem, then the chances of you getting him to actually participate in long term therapy to deal with his issues is remote. Unless of course it was all his idea to begin with. Which it is decidedly not, as I understand things. Alternately, you might check into therapy to try to kill your sex drive. If you could do that with 10 years of intensive therapy, that might be a long term solution to YOUR problem. Don't forget, this is not his problem, it's your problem. Up for it? I didn't think so  . Maybe that provides a different perspective on why you are unlikely to fix his problem through therapy if it is intimacy aversion. Ugh, that's pretty depressing and way too long to make any changes. Plus, maybe everyone will ultimately be happier in the end. I'll find a non-sexless relationship and he will find a less sexual one with someone who won't bring this up all the time. At least I can hope that for him. I have suggested going to the doctor, sex therapy, retreats, etc., but if I don't call and do it or present the options, it will not happen. And when I start to question if I really want to rock the boat again, I think of this. If he REALLY wanted to keep me, there would be so much more evidence of things he has done to change. The least he could do is go to an appt and find some kind of therapy for us. He went to counseling with me like 3 times. He would go if I asked - wouldn't be THRILLED about it, but since he's pretty passive, he would go. When he goes, I feel like he clams up and we don't get anywhere really. It feels so pointless. He and his family seem to struggle with emotional intimacy - is it related? I really think he can connect with someone fairly easily - he's sweet, accommodating, and will do nice things. But then I think he goes back to his normal life of cars, reading, etc., and gets bored. He is fine with the status quo, as you've said before. I'm definitely not.. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 2, 2016 23:44:04 GMT -5
joy6016 ... We got married in 2005, and that is when it started. I am sorry for your experience too ... I know what that feels like! Ugh, I'm sorry.  Thank you for your kind words! |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 2, 2016 23:45:41 GMT -5
I totally get what you mean about not wanting to have to coerce him. My wife is an asexual too, and she says that we dont have sex often because I don't pursue her. But if I do pursue, I have a fairly remote chance she will actually follow through on it, and she never seems to be very into it. We have discussed making sex a priority too, and making positive changes, but they never happen, and she blames me for them not. She even scheduled sex on google calendar once and sent me an invite, to which I responded that I would be attending. It didn't happen then either. Having to coerce someone into having sex with you is like having to beg someone to give you a birthday gift. Even if you do get one, it won't feel like an act of love. I don't want duty sex, I want passionate sex. Sadly, the lack of passion in my marriage has made me lose interest in pursuing her, so I have pretty much lost interest. Its hard to be passionate about starfish sex ... and its hard to be sexually attracted to someone who wears baggy, unflattering clothing all the time and is almost always too tired or has a headache to do anything fun. And by fun I don't mean sex ... I mean anything fun at all. It makes me sad. "Sadly, the lack of passion in my marriage has made me lose interest in pursuing her, so I have pretty much lost interest." Joy, see the pattern here? Eventually we all get worn down. After 10 or 20 years sometimes it's hard to tell the refused from the refuser, unless you have an accurate history book to refer to. I found initiating sex, in the rare times I succeeded, to be humiliating. I called it corpseplay. I stopped initiating and she never initiated. Not once in over 10 years, right up until a Talk she took seriously enough to reset me. But that was when I understood how done I was and how weird the sex was... too weird to do it any more. And it was all over. Yep, I definitely see it. And it goes on for years and years...not much hope to be found. 10 years?! Wow. I don't even want to initiate and haven't for years. I mean very slightly and with words, but I won't throw myself at him. It already makes me mad that he doesn't seem into me, so I'm not going to do much more. The whole resetting concept is sad and interesting to me. I think my husband does it by being really attentive and nice, but he really doesn't seem to reset with sex. Interesting.. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 3, 2016 10:20:21 GMT -5
Hmmm makes more sense as an orientation versus a preference. I guess then asking him to go to therapy for intimacy issues/aversion wouldn't solve anything, correct? And what about other types of affection - he does (quick) kisses, hugs, cuddling, etc., so how could he be fully against intimacy? is on the right track here. Even our spouses don't understand it. They don't have answers when you ask the questions. They just "are". I deal with the same thing - pecks, but no-intimate kissing and "hell no" to making out; quick hugs, but no deep intimate holding; cuddling, but in a very sterile way. The relationship is friendly, but it never goes beyond the superficial. It's like their chemistry or emotions just never kick on. There's no getting flushed, quickened pulse; certainly no sexual arousal. There's no "melting into each other", as I'd describe it; no emotional reaction. So the entire action (including sex) is very sterile and superficial - in that light, I can understand why none of this is interesting to them. They can be motivated to be this way when necessary (e.g., they've subconsciously learned it's necessary to establish the relationship), but they aren't drawn to it; there's no gratification in it for them. And while we're all completely perplexed at how they can go through life like this, I think it's easy because they have no sensation of anything missing. In their world, all is good and we are just being emotionally needy. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 3, 2016 10:35:06 GMT -5
A caution: There is a huge risk if you try the therapy route. He likes the status quo. A few years of therapy would delay the inevitable, perhaps indefinitely. So despite what I said previously, he might actually take you up on it, as a delaying tactic. , take heed here. In fact, be very wary. As mentioned earlier in the thread, therapy rarely acknowledges that the low-libido spouse needs to change. It almost always get twisted into "Of course I'm a sexual person (isn't everybody?); therefore, I must be disinterested in sex because the stimulus is bad - something *you're* doing is repressing my desire. You must do ______ to make me desire you." Therapy is an excellent tool to help people who want to help themselves. For those who don't, it can be warped in all kinds of unproductive directions - and they can twist it into justification for their behavior; now an authoritative person has backed them with the idea that your actions are to blame. |
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Post by RexCorvus on Dec 3, 2016 13:05:12 GMT -5
Thanks, eternaloptimism <3 I am struggling with feeling that we are mismatched. I still have feelings that he is a good match for me. What started out as "perfect" was our friendship plus a very strong physical connection. At this point, we get along well, he gets me, he knows my moods/personality, we have similar humor, views on life, people, etc. It's hard to feel like so much of your connection is so right, yet the other part is so terribly wrong. Hello joy6016, I have spent 21 years trying to fix, ignore, deny, blame myself, etc... because my wife and I get along, and have similar views... besides sex. I understand exactly what you are saying that so much of your connection works. We have children now and we parent well together. She isn't a bad person and neither am I. But she is supposed to be the ONE PERSON on this earth who meets this ONE PART that I need, and to not be able to even try to meet my needs is TERRIBLY WRONG! This means we are not compatible. Everything else can be right, but this one part is a need, its not a want, its not an option. It is not a feeling that will go away over time. It will gradually intensify and it will become MORE. It will drain your soul. I will be posting a story soon about meeting a woman who, I have fallen madly in love with. She makes me so happy and smile so brightly. I realize now that what I thought was acceptable/tolerable isn't. Please, you have a chance to save yourself from the despair and pain we have endured. You deserve to be loved how you need to be loved. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 3, 2016 13:40:20 GMT -5
Hmmm makes more sense as an orientation versus a preference. I guess then asking him to go to therapy for intimacy issues/aversion wouldn't solve anything, correct? And what about other types of affection - he does (quick) kisses, hugs, cuddling, etc., so how could he be fully against intimacy? is on the right track here. Even our spouses don't understand it. They don't have answers when you ask the questions. They just "are". I deal with the same thing - pecks, but no-intimate kissing and "hell no" to making out; quick hugs, but no deep intimate holding; cuddling, but in a very sterile way. The relationship is friendly, but it never goes beyond the superficial. It's like their chemistry or emotions just never kick on. There's no getting flushed, quickened pulse; certainly no sexual arousal. There's no "melting into each other", as I'd describe it; no emotional reaction. So the entire action (including sex) is very sterile and superficial - in that light, I can understand why none of this is interesting to them. They can be motivated to be this way when necessary (e.g., they've subconsciously learned it's necessary to establish the relationship), but they aren't drawn to it; there's no gratification in it for them. And while we're all completely perplexed at how they can go through life like this, I think it's easy because they have no sensation of anything missing. In their world, all is good and we are just being emotionally needy. Well we had a big discussion today. He said he feels more sexual feelings coming back because we're removing a lot of the walls/deep seated stuff that has affected our issue. Ugh, this is so hard. Then he basically said he's staying and up for working on it, but it's up to me. I do think he has chemistry. And emotions. That's why this is hard. He's not just like a corpse or someone unwilling to do anything. He said he cares too much about me to just do things for the sake of doing them, especially when we're both upset over the issue. I can't really fault him for that and feel more confused than ever... |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 3, 2016 13:42:15 GMT -5
A caution: There is a huge risk if you try the therapy route. He likes the status quo. A few years of therapy would delay the inevitable, perhaps indefinitely. So despite what I said previously, he might actually take you up on it, as a delaying tactic. , take heed here. In fact, be very wary. As mentioned earlier in the thread, therapy rarely acknowledges that the low-libido spouse needs to change. It almost always get twisted into "Of course I'm a sexual person (isn't everybody?); therefore, I must be disinterested in sex because the stimulus is bad - something *you're* doing is repressing my desire. You must do ______ to make me desire you." Therapy is an excellent tool to help people who want to help themselves. For those who don't, it can be warped in all kinds of unproductive directions - and they can twist it into justification for their behavior; now an authoritative person has backed them with the idea that your actions are to blame. Yeah, I see what you're saying here. I don't really know what his libido is one way or another, that's the problem. But the "You must do _____...." makes sense, because in my case, it's the discussion/anger/walls that he claims is causing it. I'm not sure therapy would be helpful. It seems like we can talk about things and get to the core of issues when we do talk, but it still never fixes the sexlessness. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 3, 2016 16:10:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I see what you're saying here. I don't really know what his libido is one way or another, that's the problem. But the "You must do _____...." makes sense, because in my case, it's the discussion/anger/walls that he claims is causing it. I'm not sure therapy would be helpful. It seems like we can talk about things and get to the core of issues when we do talk, but it still never fixes the sexlessness. I think the key points here are whether a) he recognizes his role in the dynamic, and b) wants to change. Not "is willing to change", but *wants* to change. If you have to prod him in the least to be motivated, the prospect of a turnaround is nil. This seems to be the major differentiator for the <1% of cases that turn around - the refusing spouse has a "lightbulb moment" and is motivated to genuine change in their attitude toward intimacy. Buyer beware: most of the time this reaction is lip service, motivated not by desire for a deeper relationship, but instead by a fear of losing their current comfortable lifestyle (perhaps because of the financial, social, or just household chores impact). Words are cheap - their *sustained* actions will show if they are sincere. Their actions reflect their true priorities, and it'll be apparent whether their intent has any staying power. Being self-motivated is key to both the longevity, and also the sincerity of the experience (I.e., not duty sex) - which is why threatening divorce as a motivator doesn't work. It's an excellent thing if you have good communication; even better if you can have a discussion about sex without him getting uneasy - that's usually the challenge. It takes a level of trust / comfort to talk openly about sex, and I think when one is disinterested or inadequate they feel disadvantaged / threatened by the conversation - especially if truthful sharing is likely to show that there's a gross mismatch. For this dialog, it might require the intervention of a therapist to guide the discussion - it adds to the awkwardness, but can remove some of the defensiveness by feeling there's a mediator. The pitfalls in therapy (particularly individual therapy where you can't counter his misrepresentation of facts) is when other factors are allowed to become scapegoats, which steers focus away from him working on himself. Truthfully, we all contribute to our situations in some way, maybe by triggering it or fueling it in some way, so we need to own some responsibility for fixing it too - but we can't let that become their excuse for not working on themselves (which is frequently what happens, with or without therapy). |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 3, 2016 17:18:37 GMT -5
beachguy is on the right track here. Even our spouses don't understand it. They don't have answers when you ask the questions. They just "are". I deal with the same thing - pecks, but no-intimate kissing and "hell no" to making out; quick hugs, but no deep intimate holding; cuddling, but in a very sterile way. The relationship is friendly, but it never goes beyond the superficial. It's like their chemistry or emotions just never kick on. There's no getting flushed, quickened pulse; certainly no sexual arousal. There's no "melting into each other", as I'd describe it; no emotional reaction. So the entire action (including sex) is very sterile and superficial - in that light, I can understand why none of this is interesting to them. They can be motivated to be this way when necessary (e.g., they've subconsciously learned it's necessary to establish the relationship), but they aren't drawn to it; there's no gratification in it for them. And while we're all completely perplexed at how they can go through life like this, I think it's easy because they have no sensation of anything missing. In their world, all is good and we are just being emotionally needy. Well we had a big discussion today. He said he feels more sexual feelings coming back because we're removing a lot of the walls/deep seated stuff that has affected our issue. Ugh, this is so hard. Then he basically said he's staying and up for working on it, but it's up to me. I do think he has chemistry. And emotions. That's why this is hard. He's not just like a corpse or someone unwilling to do anything. He said he cares too much about me to just do things for the sake of doing them, especially when we're both upset over the issue. I can't really fault him for that and feel more confused than ever... "Then he basically said he's staying and up for working on it, but it's up to me." WTF?  He just dumped the whole thing back in your lap. I'm not really that incredulous. This is the SOP of refusers. You previously asked me how I stayed for 30 years. Part of the reason was I was stuck in the same endless loop, where her sexual issues were dumped back on me. And as I mentioned before, my marriage counseling did the same thing- dumping all the responsibility for her lack of desire back on me. What your Husband actually said, based on your recounting is... "I have the life I want. If you want changes, you will have to change". And then he gives you vague promises of his libido returning. How has the sex been since his libido returned? You were previously advised that only actions/behavior matters, not words. This is exactly why you were given that advice. We've all been down this rabbit hole many, many times. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 3, 2016 19:23:02 GMT -5
...I don't really know what his libido is one way or another, that's the problem. But the "You must do _____...." makes sense, because in my case, it's the discussion/anger/walls that he claims is causing it. But you know EXACTLY what his libido is. It is Zero. His libido is precisely measured by his sexual actions, which are virtually nonexistent. His libido went to Zero before you even married him, and it has stayed at Zero in the succeeding 6 years of your marriage. If he had a libido he would be dragging you into the bedroom and pounding you senseless. But he isn't. It really is this simple. In the meantime he is dealing with this by putting the blame on your reaction to his lack of libido. All this talk about walls and anger is about your reaction to his lack of libido. And it is pointless without ACTION on his part. DryCreek has done an amazing job explaining your deal, and how your husband views sex and intimacy. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 3, 2016 19:33:51 GMT -5
A caution: There is a huge risk if you try the therapy route. He likes the status quo. A few years of therapy would delay the inevitable, perhaps indefinitely. So despite what I said previously, he might actually take you up on it, as a delaying tactic. , take heed here. In fact, be very wary. As mentioned earlier in the thread, therapy rarely acknowledges that the low-libido spouse needs to change. It almost always get twisted into "Of course I'm a sexual person (isn't everybody?); therefore, I must be disinterested in sex because the stimulus is bad - something *you're* doing is repressing my desire. You must do ______ to make me desire you." Therapy is an excellent tool to help people who want to help themselves. For those who don't, it can be warped in all kinds of unproductive directions - and they can twist it into justification for their behavior; now an authoritative person has backed them with the idea that your actions are to blame. The problem with therapy is that therapists are paid by the hour. To talk. But no one ever received sexual gratification by talking about sexlessness. If therapists were paid by the fuck, the whole thing would be handled quite differently. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 3, 2016 19:50:52 GMT -5
The problem with therapy is that therapists are paid by the hour. To talk. But no one ever received sexual gratification by talking about sexlessness. If therapists were paid by the fuck, the whole thing would be handled quite differently. Yes, combined with the fact that their skills are largely focused on resolving communication problems, or helping with self-realization (coping, overcoming emotional struggles). The vast majority are not skilled in dealing with sexual issues, and try to revert to what they know (see above). Then take a refuser who is not showing up to individual therapy saying "I have issues with sexual desire and intimacy aversion. Please help me overcome my problem." Instead the story is more like "My wife wants more sex, and I'm not attracted to her. I'm here because she forced me to come.", which leads down a path of the interpersonal dynamic ("all the things my wife is doing wrong that demotivate me") instead of focusing on the individual's behavior. Together, the odds of them improving are painfully small. Meanwhile they get validated, the agony prolongs, and the why-chasing drags the refused spouse all over the map. And the refused spouse ends up in a deeper hole of "I must not deserve to be loved". Conversely, therapy for the refused also has challenges, because you can only fix your part of the equation. It's healthy to do so, to be the best person you can be. But in the end a therapist can only help a refused spouse to cope; they can't help you fix the refuser. So... not to bash therapy too much - I think it's excellent when the patient is using it for the right reasons, seeking to solve the right problems, and contributing honestly to the process. But it has its limits; it's not a panacea. Both spouses have to be genuinely committed. |
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Post by JMX on Dec 4, 2016 11:44:30 GMT -5
Ugh, that's really sad, beachguy. What were the reasons for staying? I guess it just gets more difficult as 20, 30, years pass... Why do you think things get so much worse? I guess I can relate on a small scale because the issue at 6-12 months was nothing like it is now, 6 years later. My feelings for him at that time were still very positive, loving and romantic. I wish I understood why I stayed, to the extent I could explain it in a couple sentences. But it went something like this... 1. On our first date, my STBX took me back to her place and fucked my brains out. And unfortunately, that was the woman I later thought I was marrying. What a fool I was... 2. Somewhere between there and my sexless honeymoon things changed. Things went very slowly and gradually downhill until the wedding. And crashed the day after. The day after. Not a year later, not a month later. Now, it's hard to back out of a wedding because your down to twice a week and you'd like 4 times a week. It's very hard to come back from a honeymoon and file for divorce because you didn't get laid. Very Jerry Springer and this was 10 years before Jerry. It's very hard to file a month after the wedding because you didn't get laid last week. Or the week before. About 90 days in I had a looong talk with my father and he convinced me that I wanted a divorce. I left that talk walking on cloud nine because a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. But for some reason I chickened out. I continued to mull it over, and by the 7 month point I had fairly made my mind up because it had been 6 months of once a month sex. And every month reinforced that this was not just some "adjustment to marriage" or some such thing (and I need to mention here that this was her 2nd marriage but my first). Then one night I was sitting at the kitchen table mulling over how to tell her I wanted a divorce when she announced the happy news that she was pregnant. Now... it's really hard to divorce a pregnant wife It's equally hard to divorce a wife who just gave birth. Would it be better after the child is 6 months old? Is it ok now? No? Well, when is the right time to do this? Do you see where this is going? So I stayed for the kids, I guess. And I adjusted to my misery. There can be happiness in misery. The problem is, each time I adjusted to my celibate life I ratcheted down another level. Every time I thought I hit bottom, I found the hole in the basement just got 10 feet deeper. Remember what I said about not extrapolating your misery index over the distant future? Why I stayed 10 years after the kids were gone I'll never understand myself so I sure can't explain it to you.... but I can tell you the last 10 years were the most damaging. Back to your deal, Joy... If my history is right, there have been a total of 4 claimed successes or partial successes here and in the predecessor EP forum. Two are here now. One of those is really too new to claim victory, at this point it is more of a respite until it stands the test of time, and it was an unusual deal... they had 19 good years of sex, followed by only 3 bad years (not your deal at all). The other appears to be at best some sort of compromise, in terms of frequency and real interest (but that is me reading in between the lines although he says almost as much). Maybe a couple other claimed successes but I'm not sure any of them stuck around long enough to say they stood the test of time, however long that needs to be. The important point is that in each of those rare cases, the refuser was female. And I'm not sure if any of them were sexless from the very beginning of the marriage, which I consider a very different deal than something that went bad 5-10-20 years in. As far as I know not one claim of even vague success has been claimed by a female here with a male refuser. Cases of women coming back are extremely rare, looking at maybe 4 even temporary successes out of thousands of people coming through the two forums. But men- unheard of. And if my history is wrong I want to be corrected on that. Guys just don't come back. Your guy was never there. A couple months of sex before the marriage does not count. I'm not sure why but it doesn't. This forum is loaded with stories like mine where the wedding day was toxic for any future sex life. I don't have to understand it, I just know it is so. You want to be 100% sure. You can never be 100% sure of anything. You could go out today and buy one Powerball lottery ticket and be a $100 millionaire tomorrow night. But I would not bet the rest of your life on those odds. If the experience of this and the predecessor forum has any meaning at all, your chances of your H coming around is as close to zero as anything in life. Did he really tell you "he has a huge sex drive" ? And he did this with a straight face? Are you serious? If it were me I would have had to respond with "you managed to fuck me 5 times last year, what exactly are you doing with this huge sex drive? I'm sorry, to say that to you is simply disrespectful. He may be your best friend but that is what it is, hugely disrespectful. He is hiding a deep dark secret. He may not be gay, but if he isn't, it is surely something very equally unfixable, and something he will never disclose, but I already told you that. Geez beachguy - thanks for the sermon this morning. Holy shit - you and DryCreek just took me to church. Long thread, made longer by mua. This advice you have given a young woman without the attachment of children... well, damn. I am a little jealous of her position. Oh to be you, lovely joy6016. This sermon deserves it's own entire thread or to be marked for newbies as REQUIRED reading. It is simply amazing. It is THE most succinct (even while lengthy) dictionary of advice I have ever read regarding Sexless Marriage - and particularly for females, even though it was not necessarily meant as such. Joy - all have given you great advice. I totally get the "wait and see" approach. I have been stuck in "wait and see" 12 of my 15 year relationship. In July, I went to my second appointment with my third lawyer in about 3 years of being here or on EP. I was done. However, my doneness had "degrees" I found. Currently, I have found I am a well done steak, stuck on broil, almost at consistency of hockey puck. It took forever, but I feel I have finally shifted to counter-refusal. I am still sexually frustrated and I cried just this morning about it - not about him not wanting me, about the frustration. And I will not outsource. I can't. It's been 5 months since the reset stopped and 6 since I tapped the brakes on the divorce. It's been 2 weeks since our last counseling appointment when he said every time we had sex, I always had to say: "we should do that more often" and how he didn't like that. I giggled and said "who can blame me? I usually cannot help myself after it's been three months." Counseling is stupid. I love the counselor, but he gave us an Esther Perez worksheet with racey questions that made ME blush, I cannot imagine my "sexually kindergarten" husband answering any of those questions - I mean, really. It's laughable. It's been 1 day since my youngest's little friend was talking about her dad, got a misty expression, and through her sweet, 7 year-old-missing-teeth mouth, mused that weekends were better when her parents were together and all the things she and her daddy did together. A tear rolled down her cheek. We were having fun just before - no idea where it came from. My heart broke. Why do I say any of this? Well, youth and time. You have it. As much as I KNOW you will do this in your own time (I certainly have been taking my time) - I wish you wouldn't. I wish for you a lovely life. I wish for you a NORMAL life. I wish for you no children with this mind-fuck of a husband - if only so you don't have to consider that maybe future daughter will be sad at the thought of not having his special pancakes every weekend. I wish for this to be a strong memory - a chapter in your personal history book of a lesson learned with a bullet dodged. Welcome, sweet Joy! We can be harsh, but we care. I see a lot of my husband in how you describe yours. I also see myself (painfully) in your responses on the learning end of this. |
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. Maybe that provides a different perspective on why you are unlikely to fix his problem through therapy if it is intimacy aversion.
Thank you for your kind words!
He just dumped the whole thing back in your lap.
