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Post by bballgirl on Nov 3, 2016 9:04:28 GMT -5
THIS is so honest though! I would be tempted to let her know that is how her actions made me feel that within the first year I started resenting (my EX - this is accurate) but I never had the courage to tell him so back then - because I thought I was the one being "over sensitive" and just a big baby - but that is what vulnerability is, taking the risk with the person I love to be totally honest. NOW I know this. It's still hard to practice it though. But at least this confession of resenting seems totally honest. It's just that - -- "yeah, see how I feel these past 2 years?" doesn't seem appropriate to SAY....and yet I sort of relished the times in my exit plan when I knew he was FINALLY getting a taste of what bitter cold feels like from a spouse. That may be a little mean - but I am just being honest. Or, as she puts it, "I feel like you're punishing me by putting me through what you've been feeling the last two years." Which isn't even a little bit intentional on my part- she has repeatedly told me she knows that. But she's repeatedly brought up the feeling like she's being punished bit over the last 3 months. How about no sex or intimacy in a marriage is abuse and that's worse than punishment. She's using words to guilt and manipulate you. |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 3, 2016 9:23:17 GMT -5
THIS is so honest though! I would be tempted to let her know that is how her actions made me feel that within the first year I started resenting (my EX - this is accurate) but I never had the courage to tell him so back then - because I thought I was the one being "over sensitive" and just a big baby - but that is what vulnerability is, taking the risk with the person I love to be totally honest. NOW I know this. It's still hard to practice it though. But at least this confession of resenting seems totally honest. It's just that - -- "yeah, see how I feel these past 2 years?" doesn't seem appropriate to SAY....and yet I sort of relished the times in my exit plan when I knew he was FINALLY getting a taste of what bitter cold feels like from a spouse. That may be a little mean - but I am just being honest. Or, as she puts it, "I feel like you're punishing me by putting me through what you've been feeling the last two years." Which isn't even a little bit intentional on my part- she has repeatedly told me she knows that. But she's repeatedly brought up the feeling like she's being punished bit over the last 3 months. You seem to be well entrenched in the counter-refusing stage. The dynamics have totally changed. Previously she got some critical benefit from controlling the emotional and sexual spigot. She has a driving NEED to refuse. To control. Refusing is a comfort zone. I lived your life. And the next 30 years if you stay. I wish I'd been plugged into this forum back then. Might have saved myself.... |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Nov 3, 2016 9:23:47 GMT -5
I don't think that I would tolerate any additional warping and twisting of words and thoughts. Whether she intends to confuse you by her remarks and actions or not, this kind of behavior needs to be called out for what it is: manipulative, narcissistic, and childish.
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Post by beachguy on Nov 3, 2016 9:53:19 GMT -5
Just to give you a background for my interpretation, this is my experience: my wife and I usually go to a marriage enrichment event once a year, and every year for the few hours we are there, she seems completely sold out on making sex and affection a priority in our marriage. Then within hours of it being over, things are back to the way it was before--she has no interest. I gave up asking her for sex a few years ago when I realized that my success rate (how many times asking for it resulted in it actually happening) was nearing 1%, and she seemed so disengaged during the few times we had sex it was hardly an enjoyable experience. The result is that now we go about 8 weeks with no sexual contact, and then she will suddenly out of the blue develop an interest in having sex, and seem to be totally into it while we are in the act. However, as soon as it is over, she reverts to no interest at all in doing anything further. This cycle has been repeating itself for three years now with celestial regularity. The funny thing is that she craves my presence in the house, but doesn't want sex. Its hard for me to imagine wanting to be physically near someone you love and not wanting to be affectionate with them. That was my life, except it was monthly and she reverted to her usual self 10 minutes, max, after the sex was done. No cuddling to sleep afterwards. I believe asexuality is little understood. For example, many asexual people masturbate. They like how an O feels. They just don't particularly get value from doing that with a partner. Asexuality and basic sex drive are two mostly unrelated things. Hard core asexuals are repulsed by the idea and act of partnered sex. But others feel like "I never think about sex but once you get me going I'm ok". Left unsaid is that they likely don't give their partners much chance to get their motors running. ETA: Google "grey-asexuality" if you aren't familiar with that term If you are one of those people with a spouse that has only sporadic interest in sex, and when they do they seem to be using you as a dildo or fleshlight you might want to really think about the above. Because it may just be that they *are* using you as a dildo or fleshlight. With the added benefit of resetting you for a few weeks or months. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Nov 3, 2016 10:25:12 GMT -5
I don't think that I would tolerate any additional warping and twisting of words and thoughts. Whether she intends to confuse you by her remarks and actions or not, this kind of behavior needs to be called out for what it is: manipulative, narcissistic, and childish. After talking Tuesday night, we're back to her not talking to me. I'm guessing she's doing the, "I'm going to wait for you to take the lead and talk and you'll have to pull teeth to get anything out of me." Same thing she's done several times before. And that our couples counselor has called her out on a few times. Thankfully, she's out of town this weekend- I don't have the patience to deal with it any more. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Nov 3, 2016 10:48:48 GMT -5
Just to give you a background for my interpretation, this is my experience: my wife and I usually go to a marriage enrichment event once a year, and every year for the few hours we are there, she seems completely sold out on making sex and affection a priority in our marriage. Then within hours of it being over, things are back to the way it was before--she has no interest. I gave up asking her for sex a few years ago when I realized that my success rate (how many times asking for it resulted in it actually happening) was nearing 1%, and she seemed so disengaged during the few times we had sex it was hardly an enjoyable experience. The result is that now we go about 8 weeks with no sexual contact, and then she will suddenly out of the blue develop an interest in having sex, and seem to be totally into it while we are in the act. However, as soon as it is over, she reverts to no interest at all in doing anything further. This cycle has been repeating itself for three years now with celestial regularity. The funny thing is that she craves my presence in the house, but doesn't want sex. Its hard for me to imagine wanting to be physically near someone you love and not wanting to be affectionate with them. That was my life, except it was monthly and she reverted to her usual self 10 minutes, max, after the sex was done. No cuddling to sleep afterwards. I believe asexuality is little understood. For example, many asexual people masturbate. They like how an O feels. They just don't particularly get value from doing that with a partner. Asexuality and basic sex drive are two mostly unrelated things. Hard core asexuals are repulsed by the idea and act of partnered sex. But others feel like "I never think about sex but once you get me going I'm ok". Left unsaid is that they likely don't give their partners much chance to get their motors running. ETA: Google "grey-asexuality" if you aren't familiar with that term If you are one of those people with a spouse that has only sporadic interest in sex, and when they do they seem to be using you as a dildo or fleshlight you might want to really think about the above. Because it may just be that they *are* using you as a dildo or fleshlight. With the added benefit of resetting you for a few weeks or months. What about those who barely ever masturbate? As in, less than once a month? |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 3, 2016 11:08:41 GMT -5
That was my life, except it was monthly and she reverted to her usual self 10 minutes, max, after the sex was done. No cuddling to sleep afterwards. I believe asexuality is little understood. For example, many asexual people masturbate. They like how an O feels. They just don't particularly get value from doing that with a partner. Asexuality and basic sex drive are two mostly unrelated things. Hard core asexuals are repulsed by the idea and act of partnered sex. But others feel like "I never think about sex but once you get me going I'm ok". Left unsaid is that they likely don't give their partners much chance to get their motors running. ETA: Google "grey-asexuality" if you aren't familiar with that term If you are one of those people with a spouse that has only sporadic interest in sex, and when they do they seem to be using you as a dildo or fleshlight you might want to really think about the above. Because it may just be that they *are* using you as a dildo or fleshlight. With the added benefit of resetting you for a few weeks or months. What about those who barely ever masturbate? As in, less than once a month? Frequency does not matter. It's just a data point on a continuum. My point was that the frequency of masturbation has nothing to do with asexuality (per the standard definition) My point is that, regardless of frequency, if your spouse treats you like a dildo whenever she does happen to get into the mood, that is not terribly different than looking at the big picture of asexuality, although the usual literature does not make that connection. I hope that makes sense. Someone will inevitably try to tell me that I'm confusing asexuality with intimacy aversion but I'm not convinced those are totally distinct. I think they are most likely two critical cogs in the same basic machine. As an example, take a guy with porn addiction. He might be whacking off all night long, every night. But had zero interest in fucking his wife. The standard answer might be intimacy aversion and I've suggested that before. But how is that any different than an asexual with a high sex drive that has no interest in partnered sex and may even be repulsed by that? If you wanted to explore that path then it might be helpful to know what asexuals think about or fantasize when they masturbate. But I never found a discussion of that. My STBX never, to my knowledge, ever masturbated. But you never know what you don't know. She always took a bath with the door locked. I have no idea what went on behind that closed door. And she never showed any other interest in sex except when she was ready (monthly or less, trending to zero over time). |
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 3, 2016 11:32:50 GMT -5
I don't think that I would tolerate any additional warping and twisting of words and thoughts. Whether she intends to confuse you by her remarks and actions or not, this kind of behavior needs to be called out for what it is: manipulative, narcissistic, and childish. After talking Tuesday night, we're back to her not talking to me. I'm guessing she's doing the, "I'm going to wait for you to take the lead and talk and you'll have to pull teeth to get anything out of me." Same thing she's done several times before. And that our couples counselor has called her out on a few times. Thankfully, she's out of town this weekend- I don't have the patience to deal with it any more. DARVO.....again. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Nov 3, 2016 11:46:33 GMT -5
THIS is so honest though! I would be tempted to let her know that is how her actions made me feel that within the first year I started resenting (my EX - this is accurate) but I never had the courage to tell him so back then - because I thought I was the one being "over sensitive" and just a big baby - but that is what vulnerability is, taking the risk with the person I love to be totally honest. NOW I know this. It's still hard to practice it though. But at least this confession of resenting seems totally honest. It's just that - -- "yeah, see how I feel these past 2 years?" doesn't seem appropriate to SAY....and yet I sort of relished the times in my exit plan when I knew he was FINALLY getting a taste of what bitter cold feels like from a spouse. That may be a little mean - but I am just being honest. Or, as she puts it, "I feel like you're punishing me by putting me through what you've been feeling the last two years." Which isn't even a little bit intentional on my part- she has repeatedly told me she knows that. But she's repeatedly brought up the feeling like she's being punished bit over the last 3 months. And I am so sorry that "responsible adult human relations" feels so much like punishment, honey. I actually agree that it DOES feel like punishment sometimes - until my gratitude for life displaces my self-pity & I again recall that w/great responsibility comes great freedom. That poor woman is a childlike maturity level. I don't pity her - I AM her. But if I'm not growing then I'm not living. Growth hurts. That's a spiritual axiom. Ugh. Sorry cagedtiger but she is going to need years of therapy to get right. Don't lash yourself to a sinking ship of a marriage unless yo want to go down with it. |
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Post by LITW on Nov 3, 2016 12:45:49 GMT -5
If you are one of those people with a spouse that has only sporadic interest in sex, and when they do they seem to be using you as a dildo or fleshlight you might want to really think about the above. Because it may just be that they *are* using you as a dildo or fleshlight. With the added benefit of resetting you for a few weeks or months. This is exactly what sex with my wife feels like. She is so focused on achieving her own release, it is as if she is using me to get off. Thanks Beachguy ... I am both glad and sad that I am not alone in feeling this way |
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 3, 2016 20:05:08 GMT -5
The result is that now we go about 8 weeks with no sexual contact, and then she will suddenly out of the blue develop an interest in having sex, and seem to be totally into it while we are in the act. However, as soon as it is over, she reverts to no interest at all in doing anything further. This cycle has been repeating itself for three years now with celestial regularity. This is so familiar (apart from the regularity, for us it just seemed to come out of the blue every so often). I still can't get my head around it. My X was on the quarterly time line. Pretty much every 90 days or so she would announce she was "in the mood" It was as regular as a stock dividend payout. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Nov 3, 2016 20:50:54 GMT -5
Got home from work before her. Took the dogs out, ran the puppy, started making dinner. She got home, made a beeline straight for the bedroom. Not a word to me.
A bit later, when I was finished cooking, I walked back to let her know dinner was done. She said thank you. Trying to get something out of her, I started the conversation.
"Do you want to talk about anything?"
She looked at me.
"I feel like I don't have anything else to say and I'm waiting on you to start talking."
I'm confused again. Then again, this isn't new territory. She's done this on and off since July. Thank goodness she's leaving for the weekend tomorrow.
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Post by baza on Nov 3, 2016 21:10:07 GMT -5
"Déjà vu".
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 6:41:41 GMT -5
Cagedtiger,
You are being way too nice to your wife. Let her make her own dinner if she is going to play games with you. She blames you but goes and pouts in the bedroom. She has no respect for you and uses you. Her needs are being met while you suffer. Then she tells you that you're the problem. You wait on her, hold her hand and give her hugs. She's allowed to treat you like shit at home and then put on a show in front of others. It's time to face the problem and move on. Swallow that fear and get the fuck out.
This sounds like a horrible way to live. I can only imagine the negative energy in the house.
You should be looking for an apartment today or move in with a friend while she's gone this weekend. She's is messing with your emotional well being now. You're confused because she wants you confused.
You're still young and can have a full happy life with a woman who appreciates you. You do not have children or any other ties holding you there. The only person holding you back is yourself.
It's time for honesty. Why do you stay in a relationship you're not happy in? You many not realize it but it's you that is the problem right now. There is no way that you can get better until you break free of your wife.
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Post by beachguy on Nov 4, 2016 9:38:55 GMT -5
cagedtiger, am I correct that this is your first counter-refusal? And that wasn't just an offer of an hour of sex, but 30 glorious days. And you turned her down cold. In the past when things were going critical she always had that reset tool in her pocket. Now she has nothing in the toolbox so she is waiting for you to tell her how she can reset you now. You are the one that wants to leave. She doesn't want that but her response is to put the relationship problems squarely on you. Nonsensical? Sure but I had 30 years of that. My advice- don't look for logic or rational thinking. Look for a lawyer and an apartment. Unless you really think you can unwind your toxic mess and turn her into a sexual affectionate creature...
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