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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 8, 2016 20:33:25 GMT -5
I don't consider it a label. It is a factual part of being human. ( a small percentage does not mean it does not exist and puts you in a box) It's meant to be an opening for discussion about something that could be a real factor or possibility. If it has no relevance, than press on for other solutions. If it can't be accepted as that, and is offensive or hurtful, then it can be deleted . Sound fair? How does it help though? She has already come and said she has lost her sex drive and she really misses it. Surely it is more important to try and understand her better. If you lost your sex drive and somebody came and said 'OK that means you are asexual', how would that make you feel? It is like saying, 'OK you are done, we can stop bothering with you now.' And to be honest I don't see it as even factual. People are just way too complicated to put them in categories like that. And when you put two people together in a relationship for 20 years and then factor in cancer and menopause and everything that goes with that, there are a million possible different shades of feeling. And you would need to deal with them all differently. Let's agree to discuss it somewhere else? For now I simply tried to give an open door for a polite, " no that's not it, or I have no idea". again.....it is asked in a caring respective manner. Let her speak for herself, that eliminates any doubt or speculation. Please share with me articles, studies, journals that show people becoming asexual is not even factual. Please don't don't twist and manipulate my words. (That's what a controller does) From a question of " would you consider yourself to be asexual", to "okay that means you are asexual". |
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Post by csl on Sept 8, 2016 21:46:31 GMT -5
For the sake of clarity, when you say "nothing", are you saying that you have no inclinations or no ability? As in, "My body, my clitoris, is no longer capable of feeling stimulated." Or "nothing turns me on"?
all too often terms are used but not explained sufficiently.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 22:05:43 GMT -5
You've lost your sex drive due to circumstances beyond your control, but you're not engaging in typical refuser behavior of excuses and empty promises to get your husband "off your back." This is what most of the people in this group deal with, basically a spouse who is a self centered emotionally retarded bullshitter. The fact that you're doing just the opposite, actively looking for ways to fix or at least improve it, is 180 degrees opposite the refuser's constantly doing anything to avoid even discussing the issue. So you deserve credit for that. It would be very easy for you to give up and tell your husband to just deal with it. But you obviously love him and know he deserves more than what people in this forum typically get, which is usually an insincere "I'll try harder."
You really are trying.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Sept 8, 2016 22:46:47 GMT -5
sunniedays - thanks for the replies posted. I have a better understanding with the sibling or parent analogy but my perception of it is still probably "off" - - I would likely have revulsion and so it's the word "nothing" that keeps throwing me off. So, like nyartgal pointed out about the dishes or whatever - I was thinking that about cleaning a toilet. I hate to and have to. I live alone (now). No one else literally CAN do that for me. I don't like it. I don't get excited about it. But - I have matured in life to no longer moan about having to (USUALLY) {sometimes, I still whine about it - it's just that me letting it be a big deal doesn't help me complete it}. I get it that "sex" or any forms of sensual play may NOT be the same form or level of fun for him if you are THAT not into it. But - - this is where unmatched's questions come in about - - where is the threshold? If my guy (okay - my imaginary guy, at this phase right now) - if we were making out and he started getting hard, well, I would act. But if I imagine I'm sick - and yet I could breathe enough to make out - and he got hard and I don't want to do anything about that....I think I could still rally to perform even if I wasn't into it. But - it does NOT sound like this is feasible for you. Like you can't "just go through the motions" even because it is somehow actively being untrue to your self and wants and needs - - your need to NOT have to do stuff that you are NOT into. Is this closer? I kind of like baza's take on this too. You've chosen, based on all the relevant info you have. And - it's up to him to choose what he will do - accept that or not. But also - - I appreciate you honestly considering the reply for the question about open marriage. I agree with you about the "would like to think I could but I don't really think I could" - - when two people really are in love, I am not sure that I have it in me to say "go ahead" either - - I think of it as an option and my brain considers it viable - but honestly, I don't believe my heart could live with it (am not sure - have given that one much thought). I do hope that at least finding this forum has helped in SOME way. The source of your issue is RARE here. I feel like a psychological or mental intervention would be the only solution (and/or herbal teas, supplements, etc) - but that doesn't sound like an option in your first posts. For me, counselors and therapists do a lot of good but they can't change a physical thing usually. Although - I think libido is such a two-part-epoxy kind of thing that I wonder if counseling on mindset COULD have physical results. (Anyway - that is actually one of the things I'd like to study and work on in my future career) I very much appreciate you engaging on this forum!
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Post by baza on Sept 8, 2016 23:06:24 GMT -5
I think I inadvertently deleted my post when editing for a typo.
What I said was along the lines that you appear to have made a fully informed choice not to pursue certain - possible - medical "cures" on the basis of the potential side effects.
To me that is a perfectly legitimate position to take.
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Your story reads like you are aware that this choice may put the marriage at risk, and you've factored that in to your choice too.
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I applaud you for making your choice.
It is a far far better thing than just floating along in a situation, or trying to bury it, or ignoring it, or promising things you don't mean.
And, it passes the matter of choice over to your husband.
He then gets to choose whether he's ok with this, or he ain't.
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Whether this situation has come about by bad luck / adverse circumstances / karma, or whatever, makes no difference.
It ain't your fault, it ain't his fault (and it wouldn't matter even if it was "your" - or his - fault).
It is what it is.
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Post by lwoetin on Sept 9, 2016 1:41:41 GMT -5
I guess I'm just sad because I'm the villain for something I can't control, and for a feeling I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Thanks for coming here and giving the other side. You are not a villain. And neither is my wife. I love her to death. I think it is neither wrong to have low desire or high desire. ....But........................ What I do expect is that she also make an effort to work on the problem. I don't care how pathetic the outcome but both partners have to make an effort to show they care. You think you have nowhere to go for answers. I'm sure your spouse would offer up ideas to save your marriage. And you could offer up ideas to him. You feeling nothing and him feeling wanting are just starting points. Good luck, I hope you both are open and creative in finding answers . FYI, I saw this excellent post on sexless marriage.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: This is What a Sexless Marriage Feels Like
This post is not about virtue. It is not an ask for sympathy. It attempts to explore what I've learned about sex and sexuality since sex ended within my long-term relationship. I won't say much about why, because half of it is not my story to tell and I have no right. Just know that because of illness and after sharing a normal, monogamous, sexually active relationship for nearly a decade, my spouse suddenly lost the need, desire, and passion for sex.
When sex disappears like that, you don't necessarily know it at the time. There's no announcement. No resetting of hormones for each of you. No discussion that starts with, "I'm thinking I'll never want to have sex again. Are you ok with this?" It's just gone. One day, perhaps months or years later, you realize that the last time you had sex together was the last time you’d ever have sex together.
As I’ve gone through these years without a sexual connection to my spouse, sexual desire did not fade within me. I still think about sex and long for it, I still dream about it, and fantasize. I do try to minimize overt exposure to what can make it harder. I don’t read the OS dirty haikus on Thursday and I never read sensual erotica. I look away during sex scenes in films. I no longer engage in “how’s your sex life” conversations with friends. And yet, even with these rules and a relationship devoid of sex, sex remains a part of my life, in my mind, in my dreams, and in my writing.
As I’ve gotten through these last eight years, I’ve thought a lot about sex, sexuality, and relationships. Here is some of what I’ve discovered:
Sex is vital to a good life. What? You thought you knew that? So did I. I knew sex reduced my stress level, added to my joie de vivre, helped me sleep more soundly, and that it made the mornings after sweeter. I knew that dependable, good sex was very important, even imperative to a good life and relationship. Going without sex led me to understand its meaning even more: I understand how it nourishes and comforts, touches the soul, sustains our natural rhythms. All of that was happening before, so I never examined the ‘how or why”. Going without sex now, I can see how the lack of it upsets each of those things.
Sex may not be a need like air, but it is needed. Yes, I can live without sex, I pretty much do, but I don’t live joyfully. It’s gotten harder, not easier to go without for so long. I need sex to live the life I wanted to live, to feel happiness to the potential I have within me, to carry me through life’s challenges and sorrows. I need sex like I need friends and conversation, like I need the sun and spring, like I need books and music. I need sex to make all of those things better, too. Some nights, sex is all I can think about. I ache to be desired and wanted, to give way to joy and abandon. There is no substitute for the moment when your lover reaches out for you with passion, or with love. Trust me on this, there is no substitute.
Sex holds you together when everything else is pulling you apart. Another given, but think about it for a gentle moment. How many times has that tender caress, that kiss that lingers just a bit longer, that flirtatious glance made you feel closer, safer, connected, a couple, united? How often has it been the bridge from anger to forgiveness, from stressed to relaxed, from lonely to loved? It works. Sex does the job it is supposed to do, fusing you as a couple. Sharing sex means exposing vulnerability, intimacies of the heart and body. You know secrets about each other that are beyond naked and truer than fact, learned during uncensored moments of bliss. Honoring and protecting those secrets is a gift to each other.
Sex makes me feel like a woman and nothing else really does. My career doesn't do that for me. Spending time with friends doesn't. Volunteering doesn’t. Wearing skirts and lingerie helps, but still.... sex? Oh yes. That's when I feel womanly and confident, aching to express my desire and eroticism, and ready to reveal the mysteries of my gender. Nothing else asks me to reach in and grasp the inner femaleness that flows so deep, that yearns to surface. Going without sex now, I sometimes feels less of who I am, less connected to my friends and other women, a little less relevant in the world. I feel distant from myself.
Our sexuality continues to evolve over time, even after many years. About five years into this, I realized something very new about my sexual desire, something I had not considered before. How could this be? I wasn’t in an active sexual relationship, I was making every attempt to de-sexualize myself, and suddenly a new sexual idea came to me begging to be explored and experienced. How unfair and cruel! This revelation thrilled, stunned and scared me. How and why this came to me during the sex-free years of my existence remain obscure to me, and yet there it is. Just another reminder that sexuality, that basic human drive, has a life of its own.
Sex allows you to communicate in ways that you cannot replicate in any other way. What you can do with your fingers, your mouth, your hips.... all those luscious areas of the body that allow for expression that can't be articulated any other way. During sex you can whisper and tease and demand and beg with intonation and nuances that are not appropriate in any other setting. I miss this language so dearly and with such a vengeance that I have to continually monitor myself to be sure I don't do it in the wrong setting. I have to say, honestly, this is probably what I miss the most – the language of sex.
Masturbating is nice. And I am a pro. I swear to all of you, none of you are better at this than I am. I always knew masturbating was nice, but before it was just a warm-up or a way to tide myself over between couple-sex events. Now it is sex.
Masturbating gets to be very, very lonely. Not lonely enough to totally stop, but lonely enough that sometimes an ****** from solo self pleasuring ends in tears and a feeling of profound solitude.
Sex gives us some hope. Sex makes us hope, for more, for better, for different, for the same. During the good years, we had sex pretty regularly, as couples do. Thursday night? Always. Again on a weekend night and a weekend morning, even both weekend mornings. And then there was Tuesday, the bonus day. Tuesdays felt a little hopeful, a little romantic, a little sexy. I miss that feeling, wondering if it will be a ‘sex Tuesday’. I miss counting on sex on Thursday, and looking forward to weekend sex. Going without sex all the time adds a layer of drudgery to the week. Now it's just work, time after work, and then sleep. Same thing tomorrow. Same thing next week, next month, and next year. Sex adds that soft glitter to the winter’s gray, a soothing balm to the end of a long work day, a benevolent barrier to the world outside.
The less I had sex, the more I thought about it. During the first few years of this, I thought about sex all the time. There wasn't a conference room table on which I didn't imagine a lewd image during a business meeting. I couldn't enter an elevator without seeing myself pressed against the wall by a lover and kissed passionately. When I traveled, hotel rooms kept me awake at night as I thought about all the options therein. I have consciously worked to mitigate those thoughts and that’s helped, but even that ‘success’ feels like a loss.
Sex makes me love my body. Watching, feeling, hearing a lover take pleasure in my body and receive it from my touch, these feelings are inimitable. A lover’s certain touch affirms me emotionally and physically. Knowing that my body and my own touch produce exquisite gratification and joy tell me I am a sexy, sensual woman. I appreciate my body and am glad for it, but I ache to express and enjoy its sexual potential.
Our sexuality is a gift of comfort and passion that we offer the world, an offer to sustain a love, to convey our essence from our soul.
There is more to say, but even a non-sexual relationship deserves some privacy. Thank you for respecting that. Please remember these are just my lessons. They may be meaningless to others who face this, and to those of you who are sexually active. I honestly can't predict what will resonate for anyone. I beg you not to tell me I am wrong, but to trust that this is what I think and feel.
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Post by DryCreek on Sept 9, 2016 2:52:31 GMT -5
sunniedays.... first, thanks for posting. And reading. And staying engaged in the discussion. You're right, we don't have any easy answers for you. Yours is not a story we ever get to hear or know first-hand. Most of us are stuck on the other side of the equation, and our spouses often don't acknowledge the issue, let alone care to fix it. I appreciate that you care enough to research the topic, and I'm sure others here do too. I hope you also see that folks here are trying to be helpful, although we're kinda shooting in the dark. In reading here, you may have seen references to "lingerie and scented candles" - that's the "obvious" but well-meaning advice we often get from folks who don't understand we've exhausted those ideas long ago. Please be patient if we come across that way to you. I guess a pretty basic question is, do you want it to change? Or are you seeking ideas for coping? It sounds like your options are limited for exploring pharma / HRT solutions. Taking a different tack... On this side of the equation, you've probably found by reading here that the issue isn't simply sex. It's feeling desired. Sharing an intimate, emotional bond. Perhaps the most hurtful part is our spouses' indifference to the loss. Many of us are strong empaths and/or highly value physical touch as a form of affection (yes, sex, but also hugs, kisses, snuggling, sensual touch) - to be completely cut off is a very hard thing. Maybe not like oxygen, but like a severe nutritional deficiency. Sex aside, and assuming the above profile even applies to him... I'm pondering if/how you can find a way to satisfy your husband's need for an intimate, emotional bond. Imagining myself in his shoes, and understanding your lack of desire, I'm not sure if that's possible. You would have to genuinely want to be there, with him. Perhaps there are some things that he values highly that you *can* muster the desire for? Maybe common interests that you can both be passionate about and share an emotional bond over? Travel? Dining? Golf? A charity? A social cause? Investing? No matter what you do, if you are just "going through the motions" mechanically and without any desire or passion, he'll know it and it'll fail to meet your needs and his. I've been in this boat with my wife for 25 years - she hates intimacy but she refuses to admit it; goes through the motions, but doesn't enjoy it. It's a very hollow relationship because none of my passionate interests are shared. It's a crapshoot whether your husband will slog through this with you or become overwhelmed by his need for affection. Personally, it can vary from one week to the next, going from "I think I can manage this" to "I need out at all costs". It would make a world of difference if I felt like my wife cared instead of dismissing it. FWIW, DryCreek
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Post by sunniedays on Sept 9, 2016 11:09:49 GMT -5
Thank you all for your kind replies and sensitive advice. I want to say to GREATCOASTAL, no offense taken on your inquiry as to being asexual. I happen to have researched that a little, having stumbled upon it in while researching other symptoms, solutions, etc... No, I would not consider myself asexual. Only because from what (little) I know about it, it seems to be something you are born like, or at least are aware of by the time you reach puberty. I would say definitely not asexual. I have had what I would describe as a normal woman's sexuality. By that, I mean I wouldn't consider myself along the realm of a sex addict, but definitely have enjoyed sex for the last 30 years of my life. And that would include sexual contact as well as just physical sexual attraction for, say, a handsome man, etc. As far as intimacy with my husband, I'm fine holding his hand or sitting together, watching tv, or kissing him goodbye in the morning. I love him. We have this 30-year history together. We raised a family, created a life together. We enjoy the company of each other. We rarely fight. We've never had a period of separation. (due to marriage problems, I mean) Not only do I love him, I really like him also. But to answer one poster's question (I don't remember whose) about intimacy: I tend to stay away from him with regards to, say, cuddling, spooning in bed, etc. Not because I have an aversion to it, but because I'm afraid of what it might lead to. He says it won't lead to him wanting sex, but I have a hard time believing that because why, all of a sudden, would that not make him think about sex? It always has before. HIS libido is not gone. With regard to those who gave analogies like, "I don't want to clean my toilet, but I do it anyway." Or, "I don't want to change a diaper, but I do it anyway." I can't even tell you how many times I've read that advice. It's really just so trite. Listen, I understand we all do shit we don't want to do, but we do it because we have to. My situation isn't the old-as-time argument of "I'm not in the mood." "I have a headache." "I'm exhausted from taking care of the kids." It's not even close to that. OF COURSE, probably every adult alive has consented to be sexual with their partner when they weren't "in the mood" or just wasn't feelin' it, but they do it because they presumably love their partner and want to make them happy. That's not even remotely how I feel. As far as the physiological aspect of sex: The lubrication, arousal process, of course, was dim for me during the last years of sexual relations. Of course. Because I FELT NOTHING. Remember when I said, try to imagine lying next to your brother/sister, and being told, ok, now get horny. Become aroused. How many people would be able to accomplish that? And hell, yes, when that started, I began to panic, thinking why am I not attracted to the man I love? But over the year or two, I realized, it's not just him I'm not sexually aroused by. It's everything sexually related. I just can't think of an explanation -- or a way to paint a picture for anyone to explain the utter lack of sexual -- anything -- that I feel. I'm not offended by sex. I don't turn my head when I/we happen to be watching something sexual in a movie, tv. etc. I'm not uncomfortable with it. I don't have any kind of aversion. It's just a void. I feel nothing. Let's just use the "doing the dishes" comparison. Yes, we do the dishes because we have to, otherwise...well, we know the consequences. How would you like to live your life with the knowledge that you're having sex and being intimate with the person you love, and the reason you're doing it feels the same inside to you as washing the dishes?? Or changing a diaper? Look, no one can compare mundane chores like cleaning the house, or unwelcome tasks like going to the gym when obviously almost NO ONE enjoys them, to the most enjoyable, sensitive and intimate act two people will engage in. It's just not a valid comparison, and it's a weak argument, in my opinion. I'm just devastated that I feel this way. I'm devastated that it affects the person I love. I don't want him to be unhappy. But also, I don't want to be unhappy. I have a wonderful life. I'm grateful every day that I'm alive, and that I was able to see my children grow to be the adults they are. I love my career. I love my friends and family. But I'm here to tell you that the loss of libido mutes my days and nights like something I cannot explain. I'm devastated. But also, I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated that it seems I can't make anyone understand the way I feel. I've been told that sex is a NEED. I get it. I do. Believe me, I've heard it/read it hundreds of times. But you know what? I DON'T HAVE THAT NEED IN ME. Not by choice; By circumstance. And you know what else? I'm not gonna die. It doesn't make me feel like I want to die. I don't feel like I can't go on....blah blah blah. I try not to think about it constantly, because I have a lot of good years left. (hopefully).  And on days when I'm overwhelmed by life -- I sometimes get more than frustrated. I feel anger. On those days I'm angry that it's my fault. I'm angry that pharmaceutical companies seem to have no limitations with formulating medications for men who have erectile problems. I'm angry and saddened by the fact that women are told that they can inject potentially life-threatening hormones into themselves, in the OFF CHANCE that MAYBE it will have a positive effect for their sexual problems. It's frustrating to have to defend myself with regard to the "Well, you know, sexual urge is 'A PHYSICAL NEED'". Yeah I know. I get it. I do. But you know what? Some day my husband's sexual urge will diminish and dwindle as well. I just hope when he goes through the experience, he's still married to me. I hope he'll be able to look back and be happy that he stuck it out with me. Because in the end, I believe that what people really "NEED" are companions that they not only love, but that they like too. |
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Post by nyartgal on Sept 9, 2016 11:32:04 GMT -5
It sounds like you've already made some decisions. I guess the real question is now what?
-your lack of drive means that you don't want to engage in anything even remotely resembling intimacy with your husband
-there are no solutions
-compromise is not an option. You have to feel aroused or no sexual activity whatsoever
-no one can understand you
-because no one can understand you no one can help
-because no one can help you are doomed
-because you are doomed you are angry at the world
-you have no control over this and so your H has to suck it up
So basically, you want to be released from your obligation to have a sex life with your husband without judgment, guilt or blame. Then you should ask him for that and resign yourself to probable divorce.
If you haven't already tried individual therapy, that might help to sort out your feelings, vent productively, and decide what you want.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Sept 9, 2016 16:14:54 GMT -5
sunniedays - I understand more/better about it isn't like doing the dishes or cleaning a toilet. I'm still very glad you have posted what you did. The "physical ailment" aspect makes it a different ballpark (I think) than the majority of the cases here. When I started searching about my SM last year, and solutions to stay in it but cope with it - eventually in my research I realized that there just wasn't anything I could do to change my husband - his prostate gland had been removed, his testosterone suppressed for 3 years, and his attitude & personality completely transformed by a victim mentality, poor me syndrome and control freak mannerisms. I am younger than him by a fair bit (17 years) and while he was "happy being miserable & old" I was decidedly not. I ended up informing him, filing divorce papers, and moving out. We still get along and I don't hate him or anything. But by the time I knew how badly I needed a sexual connection to my partner, I could only think of him like a brother. And so - I really identify with what you have said here and feel like you gave me a bit of a peek into some workings - he may have had similar inner workings but if he did, he never expressed them to me. So - I hope that your partner knows all this that you have shared here. Communicate, remain friends and as affectionate as you can. Be sure to share the deepest truths whenever you have a chance. Maybe your spark won't ever relight. Or maybe your man will decide that all-but-sex is really enough. I couldn't, but that means nothing for your case. Thanks again for speaking up so we could hear from your side of this deal.
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Post by unmatched on Sept 9, 2016 17:53:25 GMT -5
I totally get that having sex with your husband when you are not feeling it is not an option for you. You could maybe do it once or twice but to do it regularly would be soul destroying for both of you. And I was struck when you said that that having lost your sex drive leaves your whole life a little numb and empty. (Sorry, in my phone so I can see the actual words you used.)
But it does seem as though because of the sex thing you have cut yourself off from a whole world of physical intimacy with your husband, and I wonder how much that is hurting you without you maybe realising it. I know it is hard for both of you but there is a lot more going on in all that touching than just the sex and if you could find a way to be able to revive that side of your relationship I suspect it would stand you in good stead. Otherwise you are in some danger of drifting further and further apart.
Similarly it sounds like your ability to 'feel' your whole life has been somewhat diminished, which is almost the worst part of what you wrote. I wonder if getting into some yoga or meditation or something that would make you intensely aware of your physical connection to the world would help to wake up the part of your soul that seems to have been deadened when you lost your sex drive. You are still young and have a lot of life ahead of you, and I hope you can find a way to enjoy it and to feel it as fully as you can.
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Post by DryCreek on Sept 9, 2016 21:00:56 GMT -5
sunniedays, piling on unmatched's thoughts here... Assuming that sex is never again going to be an option for you, and remedies are also off the playing field, this is really a discussion to be shared with your husband frankly if you haven't already. At the same time, it sounds like you're willing to engage in other forms of intimacy, but you don't because in the past they have been precursors to sex for your husband. I do understand the logic here, but it would be unfair of you to make this decision unilaterally when they are activities that you *could* otherwise engage in and he could try to find satisfaction through them rather than being cut off completely. I would suggest a better approach would be to involve your husband in that decision, á la "These activities will never again lead to sex - can you accept that prospect, or would it be easier for you if I avoided this whole category of intimate non-sexual activities, such as touching, snuggling, etc.?" Truthfully, it's possible that your husband may choose to cut and run when faced with the reality of his future with you. Or he may decide that all your years together override his desire for sex. But he deserves to be an informed participant in his own future, and he deserves to have a voice in the decisions around how you two will interact. That may prove to be a very awkward conversation, but it's a whole lot better than guessing at his reaction and making decisions that have a very personal emotional impact. Unless you guys already have exceptional communication, it would be a good idea to engage a therapist to help facilitate the conversations. [Edit: To reiterate my prior suggestion... Are there other shared passions you could develop that would help to maintain a strong emotional bond in the absence of sex? It's a shot in the dark but worth exploring.]
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 23:07:44 GMT -5
Personally, I blame society's uptight puritanical attitude about marriage and monogamy and sex (once applied only to women and now sort of extended to men instead of the more humane realistic choice of extending sexual freedom many males historically enjoyed to women). I don't blame you or your husband. I believe an honest acknowledgement and re-thinking of marriage and sex is needed by society as a whole. Monogamy killed my marriage; a monogamish marriage would have saved it from my point of view. I proposed the arrangement to my STBX, he rejected it, we jointly chose to begin divorce proceedings because I couldn't live without sex and he couldn't live without me effectively taking a vow of celibacy. It wasn't fair to him or to me or to our otherwise largely good marriage. There should have been another socially acceptable option. I believe he would have been more open minded if he wasnt raised to believe it's monogamy or the highway. And we could have discussed this before we married and chosen differently from the start, we weren't given socially acceptable choices beyond married and monogamous or single and free to mingle. www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shameless-woman/201107/the-monogamish-marriage-what-if-its-not-cheating-cheatHonestly enforced celibacy made me sex-crazed. It was all I could think about because I could never have it. I was willing to take huge risks (in the last year of the marriage) to have no strings attached sex. I was not always even physically attracted to my APs but I was at least mentally attracted and I was craving having someone want me. I often didn't have an orgasm and often the AP had no interest in my pleasure but I did it anyway because I was like a woman in a desert drinking her own pee because water isn't available. Now that we are separated and I am free to do as I like, I am horrified by my previous behavior. I will never accept that situation occurring again. I am completely uninterested (well 3/4 weeks of the month and on the 4th week I restrain myself because I know it's my hormones trying to whore me out) in having no-strings-attached sex. Now that sex is back on the menu, I don't crave it like I did when I hadn't had it with my husband in 10 years and I knew I could never have it for the rest of my life (not "legally" anyway). The knowledge I can have it is enough to keep me from thinking and acting like an alley cat in heat (most days). I spend far less time thinking about sex than I used to. Now companionship is what's harder to come by so that's what I spend a stupid amount of time obsessing about. With a monogamish marriage I could be free of both unhealthy obsessions and spend my energy on some other unattainable goal like making the world a better place or finding a job that pays fairly well yet doesn't make me wish for death every Monday morning. |
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Post by TMD on Sept 10, 2016 10:17:24 GMT -5
What about a sex surrogate for yourself, sunniedays? I read through this entire discussion. You said you have ZERO desire for any type of intimate behaviour, apart from holding hands, a kiss here and there, and sleeping in the same bed -- WITH your spouse. Would not a surrogate confirm that is indeed the case? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 12:13:59 GMT -5
@helentishappy - I agree 100% with everything you said in your last post. I just don't want to take up space by hitting "quote" and simply repeating everything you said.
Some kind of an allowed safety valve might have saved my relationship, too.
I still have feelings for my refuser, even though we are no longer bound. The recent loss of a pet we had together has gotten my feelings all churned up again.
It was not "all's great bar the sex." I look back on it now, and I see that clearly.
His health/depression/addiction issues were hurting me. It hurt me to see him just lying around doing nothing.
We lived in a town where 1) I had trouble finding good jobs and 2) did not really suit my temperament and emotional self. I lived in that same town between the ages of 10 and 18, and did not have happy memories. If I hadn't fallen for him, I doubt if I would have gone back there as an adult and stayed for 10+ years.
The town I have moved to suits me SO much better. I like this part of the state better. I like the people and the atmosphere better. AND I can apparently find better jobs here, more easily.
So - as you can see, these were non-sexual problems.
But in the first 11 years of the relationship (6 years great; 5 years going south but not totally sexless yet) - apparently, the sex made the problems a LOT easier to deal with.
Now, this is something I wonder if refusers even understand. How much the sex can make problems and flaws tolerable. And how much worse the problems and flaws seem when the sex goes away.
The one thing they could do to help us hang in there and deal with the struggles, is the one thing they just cannot bring themselves to do.
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