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Post by sunniedays on Sept 8, 2016 16:01:39 GMT -5
After reading numerous threads on this site, I've yet to come across one that even slightly resembles the depressing situation I'm in. Many threads refer to how demeaning, demoralizing and depressed the high libido'd spouse becomes in a sexless marriage. I'm the lower-libido'd spouse in my marriage, and I can assure you that I am as depressed, if not more so, than my HL spouse.
We've been married for 20 years, but dated exclusively for ten years prior to marriage. I am 52. My husband is 57. For the first 18 years of our marriage, we lived the normal expectation of story-book marriage: cultivating our careers, having two children (who are both now in college), moving up within our jobs, etc... We had (what I thought) was a typical sex life-sometimes feast, sometimes famine, but never anything to complain about.
When I was 39, with two children under the age of 9, I was diagnosed with stage III breast cancer. I proceeded to endure 19 weeks of chemotherapy, surgery, and 35 days of radiation therapy. After 11 years, I'm still cancer free, for which I am so grateful for. Unfortunately, chemotherapy induced premature menopause. At age 42, I ceased ovulating and menstruating, which caused the downward spiral of my sex drive. At the beginning of menopause, sexual intercourse was once a week. This may seem like not enough for some people, but we were very busy raising two active children, only 16 months apart, while each one of us was working full time at careers we loved. That gradually dwindled to once a month, which gradually turned into once every two months, and ultimately zero intercourse for the last 18 months of my marriage.
My husband and I have honestly discussed "my" problem many times. I believe he tries to understand the way I'm feeling, but if you've never been the non-libido person in a relationship, I don't think you would or could ever understand the lack of ANY physical urge, flutterings, stirrings of a sexual nature for not only your spouse, the person you love the most, but for ANYONE. Not only am I living with the fact that I'm devoid of one of the most amazing feelings anyone can possess; but I'm also living with the fact that I'm making the man I love so unhappy. It's not as simple as those who say, "When you love someone, you'll do things you "don't feel like doing" just to give them pleasure. I don't know how I can explain the fact that it's not that I'm too tired, or too stressed, or not "in the mood". There's nothing.
I've read numerous websites, blogs, forums....etc... on the issue of no libido, sexless marriage. They range from the non-helpful to downright insulting and hurtful. It seems that I cannot find one single site that is slightly similar to my situation, so they really don't seem to be able to help me. But I'm open to any suggestions (anything new, that is) that might possibly help me improve my sexual desire.
Let me say up front: I am not overweight; nor is my husband. I am "getting it" from someone other than my husband. I run 3 to 5 miles daily. I haven't let myself go; nor has my husband. We are both professionals. We have both worked in careers we love for the entirety of our marriage. We have vacation homes and travel often. We get along completely fine, other that the physical aspect. We hold hands, sleep in the same bed, enjoy each others' company. I have no sexual trauma in my background. I have no underlying issues with pornography. I have never had any issue with reaching orgasm. Ever. I will not engage in HRT, as studies are unclear whether it increases cancer risks, and that's a risk I'm not willing to take. Also, HRT doesn't increase desire, but only addresses pain associated with intercourse due to lack of lubrication and help with other menopause-related symptoms, of which I have none. The advice to "just start to engage in sex, and soon you'll find yourself enjoying it!!" makes me cringe and want to jump off a cliff. When I recall the last half a year or so when my husband and I were still having sex, I just remember that all I was thinking was, I feel nothing. Please let this be over.
I know my husband is unhappy. I know he will probably leave me eventually. He knows I love him and I know he loves me. But trying to explain the complete and utter lack of sexual desire to someone who has never experienced it, is like trying to convince an Atheist that God exists.
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Post by wewbwb on Sept 8, 2016 16:28:02 GMT -5
Welcome - I am sure that this isn't easy for you.
I am going to assume that when you say "I am "getting it" from someone other than my husband." That that is a typo and you meant that you are NOT getting it from someone other than your H.
There is "female Viagra" - have you looked into this?
Have you gotten "handy" with him?
You are correct that most - if not all of us here cannot understand the lack of desire - the same way that you cannot feel the physical need we have for sex.
It is an integral part of us.
A physical need.
If you truely love your H - and all the evidence points that way- maybe look into it.
Try something different.
Thank you for sharing your side.
Welcome.
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Post by veryfrustrated on Sept 8, 2016 16:39:25 GMT -5
How about this:
Married for 34 years. Last 16 years absolutely no sex. No touching. No physical intimacy. Wife has always been lower libido. Two significant droughts of 56 and 39 months when the kids were smaller. (Kids are now in their early 30s.) During the droughts she always was horny during her monthly cycle and would get foreplay-to-orgasm manually, not from any PIV sex. I would get a "I'm tired, tomorrow night" response. Tomorrow would never come. (Me either!) Plenty of other months--not tracked--when nothing happened at all or for me. Total confirmed non-action-for-me: 25+ years. During the last 16 years the rejection has been tough. "Don't touch me!" and "Get your hands off me!" from a simple back rub would result in me feeling like an 800 pound gorilla was sitting on my chest. She refused to ever talk about it with me and refused to ask her gynecologist about it ("too embarrasing").
My parents passed away within a few months of each other recently. Examining my own life--confronting my own mortality--I decided that I could not live another 25 years without any passion, physical touch/intimacy or sexual intimacy. Told my wife that changes must occur. She responded with a litany of historical issues (which I remember) about endometreosis-caused pain during sex, orgasm-caused pain (never heard this before), complaint about lack of desire, significant touch aversion (sexual and non-sexual), vaginal adhesions causing pain and so on. She was unwilling to attend therapy until I suggested divorce. Now complains about how I was absent (working), not romantic, etc. Won't consider sex therapy and rejects drug therapies or
Since broaching the subject and finally(!) being taken seriously, she still won't reach for me. I still won't reach for her to (1) not get her upset and (2) prevent an opportunity for rejection. She says it will take time. But after being ignored for 16 years and no changes being observed now, I wonder how long I can put up with nothing appearing to change. We are at least talking, but nothing else seems to change.
I too, am stumped by how the lack of desire can be remedied. Unwillingness to consider any therapy or surgery seems to relegate this to a dying relationship.
I have nothing to offer you and your husband but empathy.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Sept 8, 2016 17:06:42 GMT -5
sunniedays - thank you so much for your post. I really mean it. I don't understand the "absolutely feeling nothing" thing, it's true. But I try to relate to what I can. It is wonderful that so many other aspects of your relationship are healthy. You both sound very supportive of each other. I definitely understand why HRT isn't a real consideration. Have you ever seen anyone for acupuncture? I don't know that this special need could be helped, but it is an amazing healthcare art and has been used for thousands of years. I have a very good (licensed, formally trained) one that I see who has helped me manage RA pain (on top of the rheumatologists' western meds). Hypnosis, maybe too, would be worth checking out. If PIV isn't in your future - maybe hands & mouth can be a suitable substitute that would at least make your partner "less miserable" than no touch at all. Traveling together is nice - but don't go back to the same old places all of the time. Something about forging a bond during a new experience adds to freshness (there is new research that reinforces the importance of novelty to keep things alive). What about non-touch activities? LIKE - I have a list of words that I call the Yes/No/Maybe game and the point of that would be to sit together (presumably naked) and discuss the words/acts - are they a Yes, a No, a Maybe (and if a maybe - what would have to be in place to get the maybe to become a yes). Because - I really don't understand that if you feel nothing....can't he get you to do something that maybe isn't insertion? Or - did I miss it and you actually DO feel a kind of revulsion? I'm trying to understand (but I don't have the experience, so - sorry for so many questions!) And - just to be totally over the line and throw this out there - could he ever receive permission for some sex outside the marriage given certain parameters be met? (Like never twice with the same woman; limit on once monthly; you get to help pick the partner) I know that is WAY out there for most partnerships - but just asking about it. I really appreciate you putting this out there in what could have appeared shark-infested waters. (We do bash our refusers quite a bit here. It's not intended to be offensive but is an expression of the depth of our pain.)
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Post by sunniedays on Sept 8, 2016 17:26:09 GMT -5
wewbeb: Yes, absolutely I meant, I am NOT getting sex anywhere else!  Yes, I have done extensive research as to "Female Viagra". I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea; however, I AM hypersensitive to putting any unproven chemicals in my body due to my health history. Most of the information I've gleaned regarding Flibanserin has boiled down to the thinking that it will be pulled from the shelves in a few years time because of “serious dangers to women, with little benefit” to them. One particularly frightening quote I read from a reproductive physician was "This is a product that is neither very effective nor particularly safe. It won't benefit many women and at the same time the approval comes with a lot of restrictions, setting a precedent that a drug for women's sexual health has to be treated in a very special way." I do understand that it is a physical need. Query, though, If it is so important a need, why do women AND men lose the desire eventually? It's unfortunate that many women, myself included, lose desire due to the natural processes of aging often much earlier in age than most men. But men, if they live long enough, will also have some time experiencing the lack of sexual desire. So if it is a physical "need", why then would ANYONE stop feeling the need? Am I not a "Physical" being because I'm not feeling it?? Taking in calories to sustain life is a "Physical Need". If one was stranded on a desert island and had no sexual outlet, but yet had unlimited food and water, they would not die. And as to your advice to get "handy" with my husband: I have read this advice numerous times. Like manual manipulation of someone's genitals is not a sex act? Yes, obviously I could "physically" manipulate my husband. How is that any different than having vaginal intercourse? Sex starts with a spark; some kind of ignition that makes a person want to have sex (including manually stimulating someone) Obviously I have two functioning arms and hands. Do you understand that it's not about that?? Hormones, or lack thereof, are not responsible for making a person's arms and hands function. Yes, I could do that. How enjoyable is that gonna be for him? Knowing that I feel NOTHING. And I'm not blaming him. I understand that it's me that is lacking. Try to imagine living EVERY day, NEVER feeling that spark? Not for your spouse, not for some random good-looking person walking by, nothing. I guess I'm just sad because I'm the villain for something I can't control, and for a feeling I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 17:36:44 GMT -5
Hi sunniedays you are right on with your assessment that here. You are on the other side of the mirror looking in. I am a 59 year old man married to a 55 year old woman who went through menopause years ago and her situation sounds just like yours. I.E. no sex drive and pain during intercourse. (BTW, you meant NOT "getting it" from someone other than my husband??) Because you have come into this forum, it says very strongly that you are searching for an answer to your problem. Unfortunately I do not have one. All I can talk about is the Man's side. I don't know either of your personalities but in my marriage the problem is there is no intimacy at all. No kissing, no soft caresses, nothing to tell me that we are married and in love. It feels like a roommate arrangement. We have gone 3 years now without any intimacy. My personality is to be a 'pleaser' in the relationship, and I feel taken advantage of and that this is a big problem, and it never gets resolved. Your statement "I feel nothing. Please let this be over" is much the way my wife tells me she feels about intercourse. So I feel I have no choice but to abstain. We both know it's a problem. I have not "outsourced" (term here meaning had an affair), and it is with reluctance that I would have one. Just as you say you are trying "to convince an Athiest that God exists" he may not think you understand about his side, that you are not trying to compromise. I have come around to understand her side and eventually I believe your husband will come around and understand your situation. But I believe the damage may be done and it will be very hard to get back to where you want your relationship to be. Do not blame yourself for anything, keep talking to your husband. Assure him you still love him. Convince him to understand about what the chemo and menopause have done to your sexual desire. But you should not ignore him and reject him. Intimacy other than intercourse is appreciated by everyone. (i.e. Kissing, thoughtful gestures, etc.) Good Luck Sunniedays |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Sept 8, 2016 17:40:24 GMT -5
Dang - I don't know anything new to suggest at all really. I'd still try to find an acupuncturist (trained & certified) and see if they think their treatment could make any difference or not. My niece is newly certified and she also got, within her training, a lot of TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) training so if you find the right one, then an herbal tea brew may be able to help you reawaken that spark.
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Post by sunniedays on Sept 8, 2016 17:45:46 GMT -5
Grantgeek:
Thank you for being kind. I have actually begun to research hypnosis; although I have previously experimented with it years ago for a different situation and didn't find it helpful to me. As far as "hands and mouth" -- I don't know why it seems so plainly obvious to me but still I can't make anyone understand, that yes, of course, I have a mouth and hands. And no, there's no aversion to sex. It's just like whatever used to be in me is gone. I can't explain it. The only way I can think of to try to analogize it is maybe if you think of having sex with someone you would NEVER willing have sex with; say, someone told me I had to have sex with my brother. or my dad -- I know this sounds ridiculous -- but that's the only way I can explain what it feels like. Not that I feel like I'm having sex with my dad when I had sex with my husband. But try to imagine working up some desire to have sex with someone you WOULD NEVER naturally feel desire to have sex with. THAT'S what it feels like. And not because I don't want to have sex with my husband or have aversion to him. I'm just trying to explain the feeling of lack of desire that I feel. So of course, oral sex or manual manipulation seems just as unappealing to me as vaginal intercourse. Or maybe like if you're a guy, and someone said, "you must go have sex with this person" except that person was so unappealing to the man that he would not feel one bit like, hey, maybe I'll get an erection. Or if you told a heterosexual man that he has to have sex with or AT LEAST oral sex with another man. How desirous do you think he would feel at that moment when they're lying naked next to each other. Nothing. That's what it feels like.
As far as condoning my husband to get sex from someone else, I don't know. I mean I feel pretty shitty already. I'd like to think I'm open-minded enough to allow that, but in reality, I don't think anyone who truly loves their spouse could happily live with that situation. I guess I'm just tired, so tired, of being considered the spouse causing so much unhappiness simply because menopause; a physiological normal process, has caused me to suffer this symptom. I don't understand why one side is allowed to argue, "sex is a PHYSICAL need" yet I'm not allowed to argue that menopause is a physical process.
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Post by unmatched on Sept 8, 2016 18:47:24 GMT -5
sunniedays first thank you again for posting. We get very few posts from low libido spouses here, and I for one would love to see more. I think it can be incredibly demoralising and depressing to be on that side of the equation, particularly if you still very much love your spouse and you just don't feel it. I guess what I am wondering most initially is this: you say you get along fine apart from the physical aspect - you still hold hands and sleep in the same bed etc. How do you feel about non-sexual contact with him? Do you enjoy cuddling and spooning on the sofa or in bed? Do you enjoy kissing him? Do you enjoy the feel of his body against yours? Would you enjoy massaging each other? Would you enjoy having baths together? Lying naked together? Where in that progression of physical intimacy do you stop enjoying it? I get that all those things might be hard for both of you because he is likely to get turned on and you would feel anxious and pressurised. But, leaving that aside for a minute, is it just the sex that has gone or is it also the desire to be physically close to him?
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 8, 2016 18:49:40 GMT -5
Someone had posted an article on here about a wedding between two young people who were both asexual. There were other articles along with it?
So to go way out on a limb for something I know nothing about, I will ask this. Would you consider yourself asexual? There is a percentage of people that were born that way, or later in life become that way. Perhaps you could have a very meaningful fulfilling life with an asexual relationship. This may involve the harsh reality of allowing your husband the freedom to choose his future. Hope I said that with compassion and respect. If you were my friend, neighbor , work assoc. etc... We could have a fine working relationship. Yet it seems very difficult in a marriage.
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Post by unmatched on Sept 8, 2016 18:53:24 GMT -5
Someone had posted an article on here about a wedding between two young people who were both asexual. There were other articles along with it? So to go way out on a limb for something I know nothing about, I will ask this. Would you consider yourself asexual? There is a percentage of people that were born that way, or later in life become that way. Perhaps you could have a very meaningful fulfilling life with an asexual relationship. This may involve the harsh reality of allowing your husband the freedom to choose his future. Hope I said that with compassion and respect. If you were my friend, neighbor , work assoc. etc... We could have a fine working relationship. Yet it seems very difficult in a marriage. Why do you want to give her a label? She has already stuck her neck out and explained how she feels in some detail. I don't think sticking her in a box is going to help much. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 19:30:21 GMT -5
sunniedays, I wish I could tell you something useful. I'm a 52 year old woman on the other side of the problem. My man had some health issues, became addicted to prescription painkillers, developed depression - and lost any libido. It seems particularly cruel that we were very happy together for 6 years (with our sex life, and in all other ways). Then things started to decline. And still - I still loved him. I tried everything I could think of for 3 years to convince him to get help overcoming his problems. But he got stubborn about it - I think we both got into an adversarial way of thinking. I felt like he took away from me the one thing that mattered the most. (Yes, there are women who want physical affection and yes, sex, THAT much. Even into our 50s) Whereas, he felt like I was overlooking all the other good qualities he had, and good things he gave to me and did for me. We reached a real stalemate, a total impasse. I'm 52, but I'm a fairly young 52. Among my family and friends, I've seen people being healthy and active and interested in fun and adventures (and probably still having sex) into their 70s. I wanted us to be like those people. Instead, I felt like he and I had been condemned to spend the last 30 years of our lives living as if we were already 85 years old. He and I are no longer a couple, although we still talk and still see each other about once a month. I found a better job in a town about 80 miles from where I lived with him (that's a whole other story.) At this time, I'm not particularly happy. I do like my new town a lot better than the town I lived in with him. I have a good job these days. I have a pet, and I like my apartment. All of those are things I'm grateful for. But my love life is like bombed out rubble. I loved him for years. We were together for 14 years. We were so compatible, physically and mentally. I will not say "all was great bar the sex." Every couple has an issue now and then. BUT - the sex made his flaws, and our occasional periods of disharmony, a lot easier to deal with. You are technically correct that a lack of sex will not literally kill people. But for those of us who are wired to need touch and physical affection - it can make us wish it WOULD kill us. Quickly. I know you feel terrible. My man feels terrible. I feel terrible. Almost everybody who posts here feels terrible, at least part of the time. If only refusers and we refused ones could help each other, without tearing each other apart.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 8, 2016 19:43:46 GMT -5
Someone had posted an article on here about a wedding between two young people who were both asexual. There were other articles along with it? So to go way out on a limb for something I know nothing about, I will ask this. Would you consider yourself asexual? There is a percentage of people that were born that way, or later in life become that way. Perhaps you could have a very meaningful fulfilling life with an asexual relationship. This may involve the harsh reality of allowing your husband the freedom to choose his future. Hope I said that with compassion and respect. If you were my friend, neighbor , work assoc. etc... We could have a fine working relationship. Yet it seems very difficult in a marriage. Why do you want to give her a label? She has already stuck her neck out and explained how she feels in some detail. I don't think sticking her in a box is going to help much. I don't consider it a label. It is a factual part of being human. ( a small percentage does not mean it does not exist and puts you in a box) It's meant to be an opening for discussion about something that could be a real factor or possibility. If it has no relevance, than press on for other solutions. If it can't be accepted as that, and is offensive or hurtful, then it can be deleted . Sound fair? |
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Post by nyartgal on Sept 8, 2016 20:01:38 GMT -5
That's a terrible problem, I'm sorry to hear you are going through such pain and frustration, as is your husband. I have no answers from you on the medical side, and maybe there are no good ones, though there have to be millions of women out there suffering the same thing. What about a group for cancer survivors? Maybe you could find some help and answers there?
In terms of the way you describe the problem, it sounds like you have inadvertently backed yourself into a corner. You've set up a paradigm where because you feel no desire, nothing should be expected from you. Either you get your sex drive back or you never have a sex life again. There have to be more options than do or die. It sounds like you have a great life, a great marriage, and all the reasons in the world to find some kind of compromise.
I get that you have no desire to meet his needs sexually. But don't we all do things every day, from paying taxes to working out to doing the dishes, that we have no desire to do? Yet we do them for the greater good and for our own good, and maybe we don't get pleasure in the act, but we feel good about the outcome. You have kids---I'm sure you changed a ton of diapers out of love even though you didn't enjoy it. Is there really nothing you can do for your husband out of love even if you don't feel what you want during it? Can you make any compromises? If the situation were reversed, wouldn't you want him to try for your sake?
I know that losing your sex drive must be a terrible loss and you are angry about it, I would be too. It's so unfair. But just because you may never feel what you did before---and you deserve the opportunity to mourn that fact---doesn't mean you can't create a new kind of intimacy with your H based on what you CAN feel now. Maybe it can start with some forms of intimacy purely for his pleasure, and over time you can find your own pleasure within that.
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Post by unmatched on Sept 8, 2016 20:20:55 GMT -5
Why do you want to give her a label? She has already stuck her neck out and explained how she feels in some detail. I don't think sticking her in a box is going to help much. I don't consider it a label. It is a factual part of being human. ( a small percentage does not mean it does not exist and puts you in a box) It's meant to be an opening for discussion about something that could be a real factor or possibility. If it has no relevance, than press on for other solutions. If it can't be accepted as that, and is offensive or hurtful, then it can be deleted . Sound fair? How does it help though? She has already come and said she has lost her sex drive and she really misses it. Surely it is more important to try and understand her better. If you lost your sex drive and somebody came and said 'OK that means you are asexual', how would that make you feel? It is like saying, 'OK you are done, we can stop bothering with you now.' And to be honest I don't see it as even factual. People are just way too complicated to put them in categories like that. And when you put two people together in a relationship for 20 years and then factor in cancer and menopause and everything that goes with that, there are a million possible different shades of feeling. And you would need to deal with them all differently. |
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