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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 12, 2016 13:23:01 GMT -5
Spoke with my attorney, and therapist today. Got a couple of worries removed, for now. A big one was the majority custody for who keeps the kids. What I learned ,that due to the way court proceedings can go, that everyone starts out that way. My attorney informed me that my request to my STBX, is worded that way. My therapist advices me to not get caught up in the harsh wording of legal language. He has years of testifying in child custody cases. In the past the person who started wanting shared custody, going against the spouse wanting full custody, would come up short when things got split down the middle.
Today I responded with a refusal to all of her counter refusals. I received clarification, that I will be staying in the house until it sells. Selling would be best. Receiving the current value of the house ( her paying for her portion) is still something that can be negotiated.
If I did not decide today, on collaboration ,things would be postponed longer, and longer. One comment that hit home was, " you know your wife better than anyone". My gut thought was," she is a penny pincher, the thought of having to hire all new attorneys, another $ 10,000, would not go well with her, dragging out the process, would not go well, all more reason for her to have to agree to collaborative terms, she wanted it from the beginning, again, saves money."
I was also re- enforced that testimony from our therapist could be used. That a mediator and a financial consultant will be hired as well. Both my attorney, and therapist smiled when they heard that my wife is suddenly able to start working from home! A very good counter argument, ammo for me, in coming to a close. She wasn't able to, all those years, but now?
My attorney all ready had the papers written for the rejection for me to sign before we even discussed it.
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Post by DryCreek on Sept 12, 2016 15:07:52 GMT -5
greatcoastal, great that you're making progress and listening to the advice of your advisors. On the point of the house, I have heard many stories of it not going well if the refuser is the one left living in the house until it sells. They drag their feet on repairs, don't present it well for showings, generally making it difficult to sell. Just keep in mind that she will have little motivation to cooperate there, because it means she then has to leave her house and move. I agree with starting with "sell the house" and let her propose to buy you out in exchange for other assets. She could surely cover a $135K mortgage payment if she did so.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2016 18:05:09 GMT -5
Today I responded with a refusal to all of her counter refusals. I received clarification, that I will be staying in the house until it sells. On the staying in the house thing, do not under any circumstances move out of that house until you have temporary or permanent support orders in your hands. I made this mistake and it was a nightmare. My ex verbally agreed to cover my rent if I would move out so that the house could be sold and then he went back on his word and I was screwed. It took weeks to get a court date and get support orders in place. Please do not repeat my mistake! |
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 14, 2016 18:15:16 GMT -5
Today I responded with a refusal to all of her counter refusals. I received clarification, that I will be staying in the house until it sells. On the staying in the house thing, do not under any circumstances move out of that house until you have temporary or permanent support orders in your hands. I made this mistake and it was a nightmare. My ex verbally agreed to cover my rent if I would move out so that the house could be sold and then he went back on his word and I was screwed. It took weeks to get a court date and get support orders in place. Please do not repeat my mistake! Thanks for all your helpful advice! I did decide to go with collaborative law. However, the way I continually get treated with insufficient funding!and getting told to spend from other joint accounts! I am trying for a permanent support order. Week after week the evidence keeps building. It's not my fault that some expenses have come long! These are things " we" budget for, for years. Me and my attorney don't buy into her avoidance. The other " interesting" factor is how she is suddenly able to work from home three dys a week. Something she could never do in the past. I try to keep a positive, calm, steady approach. My fuse gets short when my no, gets totally ignored. But her no is supposed to be openly accepted, not argued, or questioned. It takes the strength of law and an attorney to break such a cycle. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 19:03:49 GMT -5
On the staying in the house thing, do not under any circumstances move out of that house until you have temporary or permanent support orders in your hands. I made this mistake and it was a nightmare. My ex verbally agreed to cover my rent if I would move out so that the house could be sold and then he went back on his word and I was screwed. It took weeks to get a court date and get support orders in place. Please do not repeat my mistake! Thanks for all your helpful advice! I did decide to go with collaborative law. However, the way I continually get treated with insufficient funding!and getting told to spend from other joint accounts! I am trying for a permanent support order. Week after week the evidence keeps building. It's not my fault that some expenses have come long! These are things " we" budget for, for years. Me and my attorney don't buy into her avoidance. The other " interesting" factor is how she is suddenly able to work from home three dys a week. Something she could never do in the past. I try to keep a positive, calm, steady approach. My fuse gets short when my no, gets totally ignored. But her no is supposed to be openly accepted, not argued, or questioned. It takes the strength of law and an attorney to break such a cycle. Ok I don't get it or maybe I do, if I understand collaborative divorce, which I don't, you're signing away your right to take her to court. Or at least if it goes to court your lawyer can't represent you any more? So is this why she's stalling on the support? Stall until a collaborative agreement is signed, then dig in her heels during the mediation so it falls apart, leaving you with no redress in court? Have you asked your attorney whether you should enter into collaboration before you get a signed sealed and delivered support order? |
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Post by DryCreek on Sept 14, 2016 23:31:23 GMT -5
Don't. Do. Collaborative.
This woman is not cooperative. She's not out for a fair split based on what you're entitled to. She has much greater odds of gaming the system if it doesn't go to court.
Playing Devil's Advocate... If I'm quick-witted and silver-tongued, is it better for me to end up with a) both of us in court with competent lawyers, b) out-negotiating you in a collaborative process, or c) sabotaging the collaborative process if I don't like the results, so we end up mano-a-mano in court, just me vs you with no lawyers to level the playing field. You see, her odds only improve if you forego representation in exchange for "collaborative".
And I'll be honest, I really don't see how this is an either/or scenario. You negotiate terms, and you proceed to court if that fails. The idea that you can't negotiate unless you give up your right to representation in court is bullshit. So don't call it "collaborative" or "mediation"; call it "negotiated settlement" and write your own f'ing rules for engagement. And if she won't play by those rules, head to court with your lawyer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 3:14:57 GMT -5
Don't. Do. Collaborative. This woman is not cooperative. She's not out for a fair split based on what you're entitled to. She has much greater odds of gaming the system if it doesn't go to court. Playing Devil's Advocate... If I'm quick-witted and silver-tongued, is it better for me to end up with a) both of us in court with competent lawyers, b) out-negotiating you in a collaborative process, or c) sabotaging the collaborative process if I don't like the results, so we end up mano-a-mano in court, just me vs you with no lawyers to level the playing field. You see, her odds only improve if you forego representation in exchange for "collaborative". And I'll be honest, I really don't see how this is an either/or scenario. You negotiate terms, and you proceed to court if that fails. The idea that you can't negotiate unless you give up your right to representation in court is bullshit. So don't call it "collaborative" or "mediation"; call it "negotiated settlement" and write your own f'ing rules for engagement. And if she won't play by those rules, head to court with your lawyer. Yeah I honestly don't get the benefit of this, not just for gc but for anyone. If you and your spouse are civil and honest enough to do this, you're civil and honest enough to hammer out an agreement sitting down at your kitchen table and fine tuning it after having both attorneys look it over. I don't even see how this is cheaper. You're still paying for lawyers in addition to the collaboration process. Lawyers ain't cheap but two civil fair minded people will not run up mega lawyer bills. gc I'm not saying you should or shouldn't. This whole idea baffles me so I don't know. But I am saying you should discuss the pros and cons in detail with your lawyer, especially the question of who gains the most by agreeing not to go to court. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 15, 2016 6:51:07 GMT -5
Without all the paper work in front of me to quote, let me say that once or if collaboration doesn't work, we both hire new attorneys. Everything that has already been said, that is documented, as much information as possible, goes to the new attorney. So the new attorney hears from me and gets all the information and perspective from the previous attorney ,then it goes to court. So we are talking lots more money and time wasted, down the drain. By her. That can't look good, when your talking a family of nine.
Another expensive car repair has come up. My STBX tells me to take it out of the money from the rental account. (It puts a rubber stamp on just how much she wants control by leaving me in the dark about finance, and how she trashes a "no".) Not going to happen. The permanent or temporary support order can still happen before collaboration begins and during. The emails were sent,about the insufficient funding, waiting for a response today.
Thanks as always, for your concern, and discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 9:58:13 GMT -5
Without all the paper work in front of me to quote, let me say that once or if collaboration doesn't work, we both hire new attorneys. Everything that has already been said, that is documented, as much information as possible, goes to the new attorney. So the new attorney hears from me and gets all the information and perspective from the previous attorney ,then it goes to court. So we are talking lots more money and time wasted, down the drain. By her. That can't look good, when your talking a family of nine. Another expensive car repair has come up. My STBX tells me to take it out of the money from the rental account. (It puts a rubber stamp on just how much she wants control by leaving me in the dark about finance, and how she trashes a "no".) Not going to happen. The permanent or temporary support order can still happen before collaboration begins and during. The emails were sent,about the insufficient funding, waiting for a response today. Thanks as always, for your concern, and discussion. Ok I figured that's how it would play out if collaboration fails. You have to get new lawyers. Ouch. What little I've read about FL law indicates that she won't necessarily have to pay your attorney fees, even if you bring the action. She can petition for the same thing in her response. You might end up paying her legal fees. You have as much money as she does. All the assets acquired during the marriage are yours too. Plus you're getting alimony for life. You're sitting pretty financially while she'll be struggling as a working single mother. Just playing devil's advocate again. There's all kinds of shit that can go off the rails in a divorce so you need to be prepared for the worst. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 15, 2016 10:11:22 GMT -5
Without all the paper work in front of me to quote, let me say that once or if collaboration doesn't work, we both hire new attorneys. Everything that has already been said, that is documented, as much information as possible, goes to the new attorney. So the new attorney hears from me and gets all the information and perspective from the previous attorney ,then it goes to court. So we are talking lots more money and time wasted, down the drain. By her. That can't look good, when your talking a family of nine. Another expensive car repair has come up. My STBX tells me to take it out of the money from the rental account. (It puts a rubber stamp on just how much she wants control by leaving me in the dark about finance, and how she trashes a "no".) Not going to happen. The permanent or temporary support order can still happen before collaboration begins and during. The emails were sent,about the insufficient funding, waiting for a response today. Thanks as always, for your concern, and discussion. Ok I figured that's how it would play out if collaboration fails. You have to get new lawyers. Ouch. What little I've read about FL law indicates that she won't necessarily have to pay your attorney fees, even if you bring the action. She can petition for the same thing in her response. You might end up paying her legal fees. You have as much money as she does. All the assets acquired during the divorce are yours too. Plus you're getting alimony for life. You're sitting pretty financially while she'll be struggling as a working single mother. Just playing devil's advocate again. There's all kinds of shit that can go off the rails in a divorce so you need to be prepared for the worst. I doubt she would get very far with the, " struggling single mom" with her six figure income, against my maximum 1/3 income with 18 yrs of being out of the work force. Her latest stunt was telling her attorney," I have no idea if what he spends at the grocery store, is for groceries or if he is withdrawing cash. I haven't seen the receipts". Her attorney said I was giving my attorney false information. While my STBX can go visit her sister, and spend what she pleases. The other fun part, is that I do need cash, my kids need cash for all kinds of things. Twenties just fly out of my hands. It's very tempting to say," go ask your mother for cash, wait till she's home, sorry. And, you go buy the groceries, and show me every receipt." Yet that just gives her more control. just more justification for ending my marriage and moving forward. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 17:02:03 GMT -5
Ok I figured that's how it would play out if collaboration fails. You have to get new lawyers. Ouch. What little I've read about FL law indicates that she won't necessarily have to pay your attorney fees, even if you bring the action. She can petition for the same thing in her response. You might end up paying her legal fees. You have as much money as she does. All the assets acquired during the divorce are yours too. Plus you're getting alimony for life. You're sitting pretty financially while she'll be struggling as a working single mother. Just playing devil's advocate again. There's all kinds of shit that can go off the rails in a divorce so you need to be prepared for the worst. I doubt she would get very far with the, " struggling single mom" with her six figure income, against my maximum 1/3 income with 18 yrs of being out of the work force. Her latest stunt was telling her attorney," I have no idea if what he spends at the grocery store, is for groceries or if he is withdrawing cash. I haven't seen the receipts". Her attorney said I was giving my attorney false information. While my STBX can go visit her sister, and spend what she pleases. The other fun part, is that I do need cash, my kids need cash for all kinds of things. Twenties just fly out of my hands. It's very tempting to say," go ask your mother for cash, wait till she's home, sorry. And, you go buy the groceries, and show me every receipt." Yet that just gives her more control. just more justification for ending my marriage and moving forward. What better way for you to skim off a few Jacksons for the affair you're having than to debit them at the grocery store checkout? You think you're fooling her that you spent $120 on groceries, when you spent $60 on groceries and $60 on a hotel room. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 15, 2016 18:26:33 GMT -5
I doubt she would get very far with the, " struggling single mom" with her six figure income, against my maximum 1/3 income with 18 yrs of being out of the work force. Her latest stunt was telling her attorney," I have no idea if what he spends at the grocery store, is for groceries or if he is withdrawing cash. I haven't seen the receipts". Her attorney said I was giving my attorney false information. While my STBX can go visit her sister, and spend what she pleases. The other fun part, is that I do need cash, my kids need cash for all kinds of things. Twenties just fly out of my hands. It's very tempting to say," go ask your mother for cash, wait till she's home, sorry. And, you go buy the groceries, and show me every receipt." Yet that just gives her more control. just more justification for ending my marriage and moving forward. What better way for you to skim off a few Jacksons for the affair you're having than to debit them at the grocery store checkout? You think you're fooling her that you spent $120 on groceries, when you spent $60 on groceries and $60 on a hotel room. Yeah....if only I could be doing that, and still coming home with two carts full of groceries every week. Don't try that and expect to get away with it. Every time you get cash at a register, your credit or debit card separates that and shows it on your bank statement, as "cash, plus the amount." |
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 4, 2016 19:24:52 GMT -5
Mathew is going to strengthen my decision to leave my manipulative controller. Communication and decisions will have to be made. There is a factor of safety involved, but a bigger factor is money, spending, control, and power. Already I am hearing second hand about plans being made to go inland. We live 1/2 a mile from the Atlantic, on an Island. Once the evacuation is in place the bridges are closed. We were here in 03. and left because the children were so young. All our power lines are under ground. Our area sustained power for two other hurricanes. once it was down for about 8 hrs. Never any flooding even with 26" of rain from tropical storm Faye that sat off our coast, it runs into the river, and runs south out into the Atlantic. The worst damage happens to roof tops and pool screens. ( we have no screen and fold in hurricane shutters) with 8 huge oaks around the house, all recently trimmed through the center.
Days together in separate hotel rooms, while everyone plays video games. I'd rather stay at the house alone and ride out the storm. Life is full of decisions.
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Post by beachguy on Oct 6, 2016 15:53:15 GMT -5
Mathew is going to strengthen my decision to leave my manipulative controller. Communication and decisions will have to be made. There is a factor of safety involved, but a bigger factor is money, spending, control, and power. Already I am hearing second hand about plans being made to go inland. We live 1/2 a mile from the Atlantic, on an Island. Once the evacuation is in place the bridges are closed. We were here in 03. and left because the children were so young. All our power lines are under ground. Our area sustained power for two other hurricanes. once it was down for about 8 hrs. Never any flooding even with 26" of rain from tropical storm Faye that sat off our coast, it runs into the river, and runs south out into the Atlantic. The worst damage happens to roof tops and pool screens. ( we have no screen and fold in hurricane shutters) with 8 huge oaks around the house, all recently trimmed through the center. Days together in separate hotel rooms, while everyone plays video games. I'd rather stay at the house alone and ride out the storm. Life is full of decisions. If you're on a barrier island in a storm like this, the major danger is storm surge. Predicted to be up to 11'. Do you have a second story? You might need it! |
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 6, 2016 16:13:07 GMT -5
Mathew is going to strengthen my decision to leave my manipulative controller. Communication and decisions will have to be made. There is a factor of safety involved, but a bigger factor is money, spending, control, and power. Already I am hearing second hand about plans being made to go inland. We live 1/2 a mile from the Atlantic, on an Island. Once the evacuation is in place the bridges are closed. We were here in 03. and left because the children were so young. All our power lines are under ground. Our area sustained power for two other hurricanes. once it was down for about 8 hrs. Never any flooding even with 26" of rain from tropical storm Faye that sat off our coast, it runs into the river, and runs south out into the Atlantic. The worst damage happens to roof tops and pool screens. ( we have no screen and fold in hurricane shutters) with 8 huge oaks around the house, all recently trimmed through the center. Days together in separate hotel rooms, while everyone plays video games. I'd rather stay at the house alone and ride out the storm. Life is full of decisions. If you're on a barrier island in a storm like this, the major danger is storm surge. Predicted to be up to 11'. Do you have a second story? You might need it! I do have a second story, and my neighbors canoe. ( lots of surfboards too!) |
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