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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 9:39:08 GMT -5
For all of us mismatched did your SO's love languages change? Can you look back now and see that you were always mismatched on them? Although I was Bait N Switched at the alter, I can look back now, and as best I can recollect things now 35 years ago, there were certain red flags that I have only recently learned to recognize. As best I can summarize things, she literally fucked me just enough to get me to the alter, all along the way. But that is far easier to recognize in hindsight than in real time. Should I have broken up because "sex naturally slows down a bit as the relationship progresses? Being it was my first live in LTR I had no baseline reference. Maybe I still don't. There were other things, such as her disinterest in post sex cuddling. That bothered me, but not enough to kick her out of my place (we were living together when that started I think). Now my red flag antennae are so sensitized I may never end up in another LTR.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 9:28:20 GMT -5
I disagree with what I emphasized. Now, that may be true for you. But in general, lots of guys engage in "choreplay" (to provide Acts of Service), for years and years, taking on ever more responsibility in the household and to otherwise satisfy their partner. And they do it willingly. But they never get any reciprocity from their efforts. This is so common that there's an entire book written on this subject, trying to help guys that are hopelessly enmeshed in useless choreplay. No More Mr Nice Guy. It's a free PDF download. While the Love Languages book, which presents a Fairy Tale view of relationships, presents Acts of Service as a legitimate love language, my own view is that In the real world, these are Pillow Princesses, untouchable in bed but directing their staff of servants (their partner) like any good Princess. The book actually promotes that idea, to a certain extent. Not that I'm jaded or anything, LOL. For me the book isn't some kind of love guide. It merely pointed out to me that I had legitimate needs my ex simply had no interest or intention of satisfying. I made efforts to satisfy hers (to the best I could), but it was not returned. I was miserable. Now I'm with a woman with whom we work to satisfy the others needs. Night and day. I think the love languages are a good tool. But the first sentence should be a disclaimer stating that none of the following is any use if you don't give a shit about understanding and fulfilling the needs of your partner. The book does hold itself out to be a love guide. I agree with you 1000% that it is useless if your spouse is unwilling to return your love language. The problem is compounded by the fact that making love is not like loading the dishwasher (an act of service). Your spouse might not demand the same level of spontaneity, desire and enthusiasm loading the dishwasher as is necessary when the love language is sex. The same is true, I think, for most relationship self help books, and couples and sex therapy. They ignore the fact that in most cases that show up here, the refuser has no desire to have sex with the refused and never will (even if they once did). Of course if they acknowledged that they would not be able to sell books or therapy time, at least into this audience.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 6:02:06 GMT -5
How would you describe emotional intimacy, ILIASM? It's so intangible, but you know it when you feel it/have it, and it manifests itself outwardly through laughs, and hugs, and hand holding, and conversation, and of course, lovemaking. An interesting question, and I think the answer might depend on what people are missing. In a couple words, “depth” and “unity”. Vulnerability and trust. Exposing your inner workings, behind the façade that you present to the world. Being able to bare your soul and share your deepest secrets without fear of judgement. Trusting your partner to use that knowledge only for your benefit and protection; never compromising your secrets or using it against you.Dreams, aspirations, fantasies, passions. What excites you. What terrifies you. And sexually... what turns you on; what you really want in bed; and what would really rock your world. If, in a moment of great vulnerability, your partner disclosed that she was never sexually attracted to you, but married you for other reasons, such as your ability to provide, then you would never hold that against her, or ever bring it up again? (I'm trying to separate theory from reality here)
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 5:51:42 GMT -5
elkclan2 - I think there is often some confusion over the "Touch" love language. Highly sexual people that bond with their partners, and need that bonding to complete the relationship think sex is synonymous with the touch love language. But that is not necessarily true. Someone could view the Touch love language as totally non-sexual. They may perceive it as holding hands, cuddling, and the like- but never sex. I believe the book itself is quite vague on this? I've seen it often criticized for not addressing this issue. I suspect that most people here highly value sex as a bonding agent, which is why most people don't consider affairs a suitable replacement for sex in the marital bed. (they may have an affair but do it knowing it is a compromise for what they want) So most people here would treat sex as synonymous with touch. But not necessarily always true.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 5:43:19 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, knowing W is touching me “because I need it” is a far cry from “because she wants to”; it’s hollow, at best, with little emotional value. And the opposite is also true - if I’m giving in a way that’s not natural for me, it will be forced and easily neglected.I disagree with what I emphasized. Now, that may be true for you. But in general, lots of guys engage in "choreplay" (to provide Acts of Service), for years and years, taking on ever more responsibility in the household and to otherwise satisfy their partner. And they do it willingly. But they never get any reciprocity from their efforts. This is so common that there's an entire book written on this subject, trying to help guys that are hopelessly enmeshed in useless choreplay. No More Mr Nice Guy. It's a free PDF download. While the Love Languages book, which presents a Fairy Tale view of relationships, presents Acts of Service as a legitimate love language, my own view is that In the real world, these are Pillow Princesses, untouchable in bed but directing their staff of servants (their partner) like any good Princess. The book actually promotes that idea, to a certain extent. Not that I'm jaded or anything, LOL.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 5:08:47 GMT -5
nicky - also Google "High Conflict Personality" and see if any of that sticks to the wall.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 5:03:47 GMT -5
thx for all ur well intended replys. no she is not physically abusive and i have no reason to believe she is. and my lawyer says there's not enough evidence to get full custody. the best i'll get is 1/2 custody. and i think she's not so bad that my kids are better off living apart from her. i think she still does more good than harm on balance. I'm going to speculate... you and your kids walk on eggshells around your wife. She only goes off the deep end once a month because you are so good at walking on those eggshells. If you stopped walking on eggshells and stood up to her, things would be a lot different. Feel free to tell me I have an overactive imagination.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 4:49:43 GMT -5
"Gifts? Fuck gifts. You can't "buy" love, and I get suspicious about anyone who ranks high on that one. Just my opinion, of course." shamwow - I consider gifts a toxic love language. When it's at the top (a primary love language). It means the person is very shallow and materialistic. Before the political correctness of describing that as a love language, those people were described as Gold Diggers. Hope I didn't offend anyone here, but I doubt it. I've never seen Gifts float to the top of anyone participating in a DB venue (as a refused).
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Post by beachguy on Jul 12, 2018 10:44:55 GMT -5
One of the criticism's of Maslow's model is that sex is supposedly not a basic need I'm confused. It is listed at the bottom of the pyramid, the foundation, along with food clothing and shelter. That appears to make it a basic need. Which I believe it to be (for most people, not all).
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Post by beachguy on Jul 12, 2018 10:36:02 GMT -5
There are two things I got out of love languages, and I've seen a lot of these reports (mostly on other DB venues where this is discussed all the time)
1. Never, ever get involved with someone whose primary love language is acts of service. And most refusers list this as their primary love language and that is where all the choreplay comes from.
2. If you are in an SM, your refuser is not capable of returning your love language (touch). Or refuses to, for whatever reason. That is where the love languages concept fails. The partners are supposed to return each others love language. But in an SM it is always a one way street, with the refused doing increasing amounts of choreplay and getting nothing in return. Or whatever nonsexual love language their refuser has. Like most psych books it fails because it assumes everyone likes sex. Obviously they don't. Or at least sex with you.
Some people bond through sex. Some don't. Those that don't place no value at all on sex. After the NRE is over and they have you snagged. If your primary love language is touch you are probably a bonder (even if you list it second). If your refuser lists it last or near last, they only value it as a weapon or a tool.
That is my take on love languages.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 12, 2018 10:14:40 GMT -5
"he stole my wife"
No, he drove his wife into the arms of another. I hate that expression. Especially when the "theft" was of a long term refused. He considers his wife chattel property.
If you don't take care of your spouse then someone else eventually will. And perhaps sooner than later.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 12, 2018 9:17:07 GMT -5
12 Words of Affirmation 8 Acts of Service 5 Physical Touch 5 Quality Time 0 Gifts While taking this test (thank you for the link h - I only suspected what I would score but never took the test), I was struck by my scrunching up my nose at any mention of more time spent together. Umm... no thank you. I suspect my physical touch score is more a symptom of current situation but I kind of recoiled at the holding hands questions, etc., which was a surprise too. I am pretty affectionate. So - please tell me I am amazing and appreciated, do something nice for me every once in awhile, sex but no hand holding, find your own things to do (mostly) and don’t bother buying me anything. Ha! About sums up current situation. As you implied, I think you are too jaded by your current relationship to separate what you need from what you want from your H now. It might be better to try to think in terms of what you would need from a new partner (the real you). Or how you would have answered this during your courtship before the marriage Or early marriage?) went south and SM.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 12, 2018 7:01:06 GMT -5
I don't know -- I watch porn regularly but still desire my wife. Last night I put my hand on her thigh while sitting next to her on the couch watching tv. We were both fully clothed and our middle son was there -- I didn't mean anything suggestive by it. She took the opportunity to say, "after you get money" (by which, she means more money) anyway. I've lost about 4 kg (8.8 lbs) at this point; it's a good thing I'm not expecting anything. Your wife is blatantly prostituting yourself. Except per your original weight loss story, she takes payment in advance and then skips out on the job. She should be fired, like any other prostitute that runs that scam. But if you insist in engaging her services, you should turn everything around, and pay after delivery of services. Put your paycheck into a separate account. Work out a budget that pays only the minimal household expenses and leaves her no discretionary funds. Then decide what a fuck is worth, and the quality you expect from your hooker. After she puts out, and the quality is acceptable then pay her an agreed amount for her discretionary spending. If she gives you duty sex, then either reduce the payment or refuse to pay, and tell her why. This may sound very harsh but it isn't. Such blatant marital prostitution is simply disgusting. Don't start earning more money until after the divorce. Otherwise your hooker will get a cut of it without ever having to put out again.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 11, 2018 14:59:54 GMT -5
elynne, I'm new to the thread and I don't know the history or if this was mentioned. But wanted to say that your Husband's aha moment in therapy sounds like Intermittent Reinforcement. Not a break through since that's rare with abusers. I assume you have researched that thoroughly?
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Oysters
Jul 11, 2018 14:24:37 GMT -5
Post by beachguy on Jul 11, 2018 14:24:37 GMT -5
Yes, we will! BUT they must be perfectly anatomically correct (even that clit!). choosinghappy , I've never seen such an anatomically perfect oyster! And I eat them fairly regularly. Maybe I just have to play with them? Another adventure in science. What can I say? I present a perfect oyster. Anyone hungry? 😉 One more question @lonelywife- are you good with a little hot sauce on top?
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