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Post by brian on Sept 4, 2017 6:20:47 GMT -5
OK. This is probably closer to a discussion about boundaries in a relationship than just text messages. My roomie occasionally sifts through my text messages, looking for indiscretions, I guess. My 12yr old thinks this is fine... I should have nothing to hide. I just can't stop thinking about what is actually MINE in the house... the kids have learned from her that it's OK to rummage through just about everything. They found the never used dildo in the closet -- that's made for some uncomfortable conversations for my roomie. I can't keep anything hidden. So... what kind of boundaries do you all have? Why don't you lock your accounts and mobile? Aren't all mobiles self-lockable now? To me it looks like nobody around can see a contant of anybody else's mobile... It is locked. Case in point last evening, we're driving to dinner and my phone beeps with a text. Roomie asks, "Who just texted? Let me see." I told her is was Susan (a mutual friend of ours) and accidentally dropped the phone. In my defense, I WAS driving. I hadn't read the text, but at the next light she had me grab my phone and unlock it so she could read the message. After reading that message, she spent the next 10 minutes rifling through my text history looking for... I guess... evidence. Although there isn't anything damning to see, I hope she finds something that wakes her up. LOL
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Post by brian on Sept 4, 2017 4:45:29 GMT -5
OK. This is probably closer to a discussion about boundaries in a relationship than just text messages.
My roomie occasionally sifts through my text messages, looking for indiscretions, I guess. My 12yr old thinks this is fine... I should have nothing to hide. I just can't stop thinking about what is actually MINE in the house... the kids have learned from her that it's OK to rummage through just about everything. They found the never used dildo in the closet -- that's made for some uncomfortable conversations for my roomie. I can't keep anything hidden.
So... what kind of boundaries do you all have?
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Post by brian on Sept 3, 2017 19:46:08 GMT -5
Lol... 21 years ago. I was young and naive. I was happy to get any sex, so when it was offered... kid #2. Then #3. Then #4. About 6 years of why chasing after that and I found EP. Since then I have learned so much about myself, my situation, and where I am going. I have seen my feelings about sex, marriage, and relationships change in ways that I never thought my mind would go. But here I am now, staying for the kids, actively looking for an AP (or two) and looking forward to the day my last kid heads off to college.
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Post by brian on Sept 3, 2017 16:12:32 GMT -5
I would just wish my roommate would have told me that sex wasn't an important part of a relationship for her.
Or maybe that I would have recognized the warning signs... there were many. From the day we moved her from Chicago to Pittsburgh, the sex pretty much died. I kept making excuses for it -- stress Form the move, then stress from planning a wedding at a remote location, being tired on our wedding night, being sunburned on the honeymoon, and on and on and on.
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Post by brian on Sept 2, 2017 20:30:02 GMT -5
I forget my percentages, but I'm a Director/Explorer
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Post by brian on Aug 31, 2017 6:54:58 GMT -5
Wait... a hand job? My refuser doesn't do those either. Haven't had one since college. My birthday weekend is chronicled in the shoutbox, but consisted of cleaning and kid activities. Nothing... absolutely nothing, for me. But that's ok, because that's what I expected... and actually wanted. I don't want my refuser any longer.
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Post by brian on Aug 29, 2017 5:32:31 GMT -5
A lot of very good posts already. Wow very good. I will just ask does the Intimacy / Sex situation in your marriage ever going to really improve? How many years has it been like this? At what point in time was the sex/intimacy satisfying and then how long since that point in time? If applicable: Did the intimacy / sexlessness ever improve for a while since the first time it went bad? What it made it change at that point in time? How long did this renewed period last? Why did it get lost again? If you look at this based on "available data" can you honestly hypothesize a wonderful passionate intimacy filled (and sex life) can return to your marriage? From my own personal experience, I will share that I decided to "outsource" it was less than satisfying really. Cheating requires hiding and discretion and not the same thing ever in my experience as being in a fulfilling passionate primary relationship. Nutshell: Married young (me 20, her 21); Married 21 years; I honestly don't remember frequency early on; definite sexless last 14 years (clinical definition). I would occasionally get a reset period, but even those are getting less frequent. No I do not believe the intimacy will return. I have been told I am honest to a fault; I can hardly even tell a white lie. The closest I come to dishonesty is avoiding the conversation(s) at all cost so I don't have to outright lie (at least it keeps the peace). I could not outsource, for the honesty and for the fact that there is no way I could get away with it even if I tried. Then tell her that you are going to look for physical intimacy elsewhere. Be upfront about it... your marriage is not providing you with the physical and mental stimulation that you require to be a happy, functioning adult and that if she is unwilling, then for the sake of your sanity you are going to have to find another outlet. What's the worst that can happen? Divorce? Isn't that where you are headed anyway? What's the best that can happen? You find a lover with your wife's full knowledge. And yes, that CAN happen. I have a friend (female) who is quite happy that her husband has a gf to take care of those "wifely duties" because she simply doesn't want to do so herself. My wife has given me an "every other month" free pass (I don't have a gf, ap, or an fwb though). I fully understand that she MIGHT take the opportunity to outsource herself, but I have told her that this door does NOT swing both ways and that I would never have even mentioned going outside the marriage if she was willing to be a fully engaged marriage partner. If she ever does, I'm pulling the trigger sooner than I was planning on doing.
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Post by brian on Aug 25, 2017 21:04:21 GMT -5
What if you simply don't know? My room mate tells me that I have to do x, y, and z before she can feel like having sex, but are those just excuses to move the goal post? We have been over that topic countless times. If that were the case, how does she explain the first 5,10,15 years of the marriage? Why wouldn't she have sex with me then when I was still REALLY trying?
So I don't know what category my situation falls under, but I don't really care at this point. I no longer want to have sex with my room mate because it's not fun. She tolerates the bodily intrusion, and at that point a prostitute would be more interactive and pleasurable.
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Post by brian on Aug 23, 2017 17:19:40 GMT -5
Here's two different stories to have a look at. #1 - Dear ILIASMers, I am 42 years old, two kids. My problem is that my spouse is extremely sexually avoidant. I have tried everything I can think of to get my spouse interested but nothing works. What can I do ? Everything is great bar the sex. #2 - Dear ILIASMers, I am 42 years old, two kids. My problem is that my spouse is extremely sexually demanding. I've tried everything I can think of to hose my spouse down but my spouse persists incessantly. What can I do ? Everything is great bar the sex. Now I would imagine that if the stories were posted in an asexual group, the sympathies would tend toward story #2. And if the stories were posted in this group, the sympathies would tend toward story #1. But really, apart from their different individual perspectives, are there any actual significant differences in the two stories ? Both stories express unhappiness with the level of sex in the dynamic. Both stories take a position that their spouse ought to adjust to their view. Both stories tell of a huge mis-match. "If" you were giving these people suggestions, or advice, would your advice be materially different to the refuser spouse than it would be to the refused spouse ? And if so , on what basis ? "Everything is great bar the sex." ... "But really, apart from their different individual perspectives, are there any actual significant differences in the two stories ?" Just a crazy thought from here in hypothetical fun land: Add these details: By day, everything is flowers and walks in the park. Night after night, #1 sexually assaults #2. Does # 2 still think "everything is great bar the sex?" This should get interesting... THIS is most of the reason why I don't even want to have sex with my avoidant spouse anymore. She makes me feel like I'm practically assaulting her as she "tolerates" having sex with me. No thanks. Not interested. But I'm also not interested in being celibate.
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Post by brian on Aug 23, 2017 17:16:26 GMT -5
I'm going to infer, based on a commonly held number of three times a week being normal healthy sexual activity, that "extremely" would be double that. That does not seem extreme to some of us, but I think it is a fair number. I could also figure that with the average time of sex being thirteen minutes, "extremely" would want to go more than twenty-six minutes. Again, that does not seem extreme for some of us, but, we are dealing with the rest of the world and most of us here probably fall on the HL extreme side of the spectrum. Okay... getting a bit off topic, but if the LL spouse requires 45 min of massaging and then decides she is too relaxed and tired to do anything else, does that count towards your extreme of 26 minutes? And if you repeat that 6 times a week, is that being extremely sexual?
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Post by brian on Aug 23, 2017 7:58:42 GMT -5
For me, not much different. Your spouse is unhappy with your views on sexual intimacy. You can: - Concede, which is likely to breed resentment in you and, in the end, result in a very unsatisfying interaction for both of you. THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what either of you really want. This path will likely ultimately result in the dissolution of the marriage by your own doing.
- Hold your ground, which is likely to breed resentment in your spouse and, in the end, bleed over into many other areas of the relationship. This path also will most likely result in the dissolution of the marriage, just by your spouse's doing.
- Work together to find a middle ground. This path has the best chance of working, but it is WORK, and it may not result in a workable solution. If one of you wants no sex while the other wants it at least once a day, it is doubtful you will ever find a middle ground that both of you can both be okay with.
- Open the marriage so that the spouse who doesn't want to have sex doesn't have to and the one that does can find it elsewhere. This can lead in all sorts of directions and involve all kinds of emotions from feelings of abandonment and resentment to having the high libido spouse inadvertently falling in love (or having a child) outside of the marriage. Although some couples, I have been told, have made this work, I believe the risk of the marriage unwinding is quite high.
What I wouldn't suggest is to embark on a long fact-finding mission about why your spouse is the way that they are... or why they changed. The ONLY time that I would suggest this is that if both of you have chosen option #3 above and are honestly willing to embark on a JOINT mission of self-discovery that will most likely bare your souls to each other... and you may not like what you see -- either in your spouse or in yourself. At that point, it's your and your spouse's reaction to that knowledge that will define where the relationship leads.
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Post by brian on Aug 21, 2017 5:13:59 GMT -5
How much compassion would you have for a refuser with simply a very low libido. Nothing else, no other problem, just not wired up for much sex what ever the circumstances. As an interesting intellectual exercise, let's switch this around a bit... How much compassion would you have for someone who simply doesn't want to discuss anything? Every morning, they wish to sleep in and not talk before you go to work. Every evening, they sit at the table on their electronic devices, but every night when you went to bed they fuck you until they are satisfied (without words), then fall asleep. Now, what if, prior to marriage, the two of you had long talks every day, shared your lives in every way. Would you still feel compassion for that person? Although this is a "Sexless Marriage" forum, I bet nearly everyone here would agree when I say, "That would suck every bit as much as what our SM was/has been," and we would outsource our need for conversation and connection. Oddly enough, THAT would be seen as socially acceptable, where outsourcing sexual needs is seen as cheating. Go figure.
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Post by brian on Aug 21, 2017 4:55:58 GMT -5
This is exactly how I treat the rejections I get... as reminders. I often even try to have fun with it, seeing how strong of a reaction I can get or watching her contort her facial expression or seeing what she'll do. I had a lot of fun when I "asked" for her "assistance" after my recent vasectomy where I was supposed to ejaculate 20 times before sending in a sample... more scared than a deer in headlights. Or I have purposely gone to bed with my hand on my privates to see what she'll do when she enters the room. I keep mental note of all of the different excuses/reasons she gives for not having sex.
To me, this is a game. It's the only way that I can be sane about it.
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Post by brian on Aug 19, 2017 17:35:58 GMT -5
Damn. Replace "Television" with "Facebook" and that's my house. I can remember occasions of having invitations to have sex turned down because she was 'tired' but then she would spend up to 45 minutes scrolling through bloody Facebook or playing a game a game on her phone. Always made me feel like I was the one! I get this all the time... at 11pm, "I'm tired," but then she'll watch shows/movies on her iPad until 2am... then complain that I was snoring.
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Post by brian on Aug 13, 2017 13:54:52 GMT -5
Sexless honeymoon for me. I was 28 years old and new wife was 25 years old. I would imagine most other couples that age, whilst on honeymoon with no children in 5 star kick back and relax luxury would have managed at least 3-4 times. Not me! My wife was so excited to be with her new husband she managed to avoid all naked encounters for 2 weeks. The rest of the year continued in much the same way. The following year she wanted to start trying for kids. As soon as we did, twice a week was a minimum. My wife managed one brief sexual encounter on our honeymoon.
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