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Post by brian on Oct 1, 2017 6:41:47 GMT -5
Some other things you may want to consider:
Is she gasslighting you into thinking that YOU'RE the one with the problem?
As with many here, we have been led down a path of "if you would only do X" only to find out that once you do X, then they want Y, then Z, and A,B, and C as well. Once done with that, they add in D, E, and F. Then... well... you get the picture. It's done to distract you and delay things so that they don't have to do something THAT THEY CONSIDER UNPLEASANT.
Think about that for a minute...
SHE CONSIDERS SEX WITH YOU AS UNPLEASANT
SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU
There is probably little that you can do to change that into anything other than she might tolerate having sex with you if you do all the right things in the exact right order on the right day in the right place and right time. Think Rube Goldberg machine and the likelihood that everything works as intended to get to the end result.
If she won't change her attitude, then there is little you can do to convince her that sex with you is pleasant.
Now, I'm certain that you are not completely blameless, and that's okay too. None of us are perfect and we have all made mistakes. If she cannot cannot see past your mistakes and come to terms that sex is an expected part of marriage, helps secure and maintain the bond between two people, and should be a pleasurable activity for both of you, then you have your view into what the future of your marriage will look like. It's up to you to decide if that is acceptable or not.
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Post by brian on Oct 1, 2017 6:24:37 GMT -5
Well... according to an earlier post of yours, revealing an online FWB got you some really great sex, so I would suggest that you say to her what you just said in this post (just replace "she" with "you"), and then mention that since she has been unwilling to fulfill her portion of the marital duties, that you have started up again with FWB in an attempt to retain your sanity as a man. Of course, that is likely to result in comments about how you define yourself and your sanity in terms of sex and blah, blah, blah, which can be returned with a hearty dose of, "We both have our needs and desires, and if you expect me to take care of yours, then you have to take care of mine too. If you don't want to do so, then I can either find someone else willing to do so (the FWB), or we can end this marriage that is apparently unfulfilling to both of us." But as baza is very keen to point out, have your ducks lined up (legal advice), and DO NOT BLUFF, as you'll lose all credibility if you do.
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Post by brian on Sept 28, 2017 5:35:06 GMT -5
Since you have suggested counselling, I am going to assume that you and your co-parent have discussed the issue... or at least have tried to discuss it. Have you tried to talk about having a FWB with her? Opening the marriage (for you) a little. Although it sounds a bit selfish to reject a two-way opening of the marriage (unless you want that), gently remind her that she is the one that has been refusing and that this is the only possible way you can see that maintains the household for the long term... unless she starts becoming a willing and active participant in maintaining the marital relationship.
It took me many years to reach the point of being able to lay that out to my roomie, because it took me that long to turn from "all affairs are bad" to "I just want someone to want to be with me". Did she agree to that? No, but it really got her thinking that this gig was coming to an end. She says that she's trying now (we've had sex once since then). It's a step forward (once in 5 months), but it's a far cry from fixed. So I continue to look for that FWB.
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Post by brian on Sept 27, 2017 20:05:57 GMT -5
Vacation? Never happen maybe once in 25 years. Also lots talking about honeymoon I was 10 days married before I got laid and the frequency went down from there. Eventually she said yeah I lied about liking sex.... deal with it or leave. If my W had been so blunt with me, I would have made up my mind to leave almost immediately. You should be thankful for her bluntness. Yeah. Same here. That is a gift. It is a window into the rest of your life. She either needs to allow you to outsource (find another person to take care of things that she is unwilling/unable to do), or you need to leave... unless you're ok with celibacy for the long haul.
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Post by brian on Sept 24, 2017 8:47:10 GMT -5
My roomie read this article... mentioned that it came from a reputable source instead of "those porn sites" that I have sent links to her in the past. Just for reference, I have only sent her 3 links in the past, one for the "Love Languages" test (that she won't take), one to a recent Kinsey Report on sexuality (recent meaning a few years ago), and one to an old post by baza on the old EP forum... those are a far cry from porn sites, but that's not the point of my post.
Although she keyed on all the things that I have to do, she did embrace the "just do it" statement. So we had sex... moderaltely good sex, Thursday night. She wouldn't allow herself an orgasm, and that's something she recognized as something she needs to work on. Progess, I suppose, but it's still a far cry from "better". I almost feel a little guilty though, because I nearly had sex with another woman earlier that evening. We just couldn't make the timing work. That encounter would have probably resulted in the first orgasm I have had with another person in over a decade. Roomie ended the encounter long before either of us reached release.
Now, will roomie follow up with more, or was that he attempt for the remainder of 2017? I suppose time will tell. In the meantime, I will try to engineer another outsourcing arrangement.
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Post by brian on Sept 23, 2017 5:38:00 GMT -5
I know a little too much about IT stuff to be too lax with security. Smartkat you should teach us some basic things to help ourselves. There are other people here who know more than I do. But for starters: 1 - Passcode on your phone, iPad, etc. Takes about 5 minutes to do. 2 - Password vault for all your account passwords. Get something like LastPass on all your gadgets, and take the time to set it up. Then use the password generator to create a different password for every online account you have. This takes more effort, but it's worth it. 3 - Except for job hunting and buying things with a credit card, I never use my real name for anything online. I also try to avoid having real photos of myself online (although this is not always easy.) Paranoid? Maybe. But consider this: if the wrong person got hold of your real name, real phone number, date of birth including the year, etc., you could go through identity theft and fraud experiences that IMHO would be even worse than having your refuser in a jealousy fit. In fact, if they don't like your privacy precautions, you just tell them that you are concerned about identity theft and fraud. There's plenty of horror stories to back this up. If you really are sneaking around, you can use things like burner phone apps to hide your real phone number, an app called Signal for private text messaging. Pay for things with a prepaid credit card, or maybe get yourself a credit card that your refuser doesn't know about. Then link that card to a PayPal account that they don't know about. This won't help with a nosy refuser snooping on your phone or computer, but I use a VPN as well, because of the identity theft risk. And, again, there are people who know more about IT security than I do. If any of them are reading this - feel free to chime in.[/quote]
...and then there was Equifax, which put all of that crap out there about just about everyone.
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Post by brian on Sept 22, 2017 7:22:55 GMT -5
Just another crock of shit written by a clueless moron. " Remember, if you're interested in sex and your partner is not, think of your interest as a precious resource. Without it, without your motivation to have sex, it's easy to get stuck in a rut. So don't give up -- just refocus your efforts." Unless I have misinterpreted his words and "refocus your efforts" means "get the fuck out". Put anotger way... Refocus your efforts on another partner Which can be done in several different ways
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Post by brian on Sept 22, 2017 5:16:41 GMT -5
In this group, the refusing spouses preferred level of sexual engagement with you is "none". Not "once a week" Not "once a fortnight" Not "once a month" Not "once a quarter" Not "once a year" "None". Nothing. Zip. Zero. That is the refusive spouses preferred level of sexual engagement with you. That is what they prefer. I would speculate that if your refusive spouse had a natural preference for sexual engagement with you at a rate of "once a month", then you'd most likely not even be a member of this group. You'd likely just be going along with that. Point I am getting to is - that if the refusive spouses preferred level of sexual engagement with you is "none", then there is nothing to base a compromise on. There is no *base-line*, and thus, there is no solid base to compromise from. Now, if you wanted to establish what the refusive spouses natural preference for sexual engagement with you is, you can readily establish that. Cease and desist from approaching the refusive spouse for sex. Stop it completely. Then, note how many times you have sex - at their instigation, over a week, a fortnight, a month, a quarter, a year. This frequency will show you the refusive spouses natural preference for sexual engagement with you. For the vast majority of this group, that frequency figure will be "none". Now, consider this. If the refusive spouses natural preference for sexual engagement with you is "none", on what basis would you figure that a compromise could be accomplished to deliver - lets say - 12 roots a year ? 12 roots a year is a monumental task to set from a preferred base of "none". I think it must depend on the individual, their age and their sex drive etc. For example, in your late twenties/early thirties I would describe 1 sexual encounter per month as basically sexless. For some, once per month may be perfectly fine, for others it may be hell on earth. I totally get that if the offer on the table is simply zero times per month then there is no compromise to be had. So what defines someone as being in a sexless marriage? I would guess if you consider yourself to be in a sexless marriage, you are in one. Speaking strictly in clinical terms, a sexless marriage is defined as 10 or fewer times per year.
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Post by brian on Sept 21, 2017 22:58:01 GMT -5
I agree. I think once a week is a pretty normal level of intercourse to expect out of a relationship. That's why I had such a hard time accepting every other week as my "normal" and acceptable rate. I am hopeful he will step up a bit when I ask for help in between, but I am not really confident about that either. I do have my cuddles back now though! That has felt great. However, I was denied giving him a blow job this morning, so that's kind of crappy Before this forum I didn't know men actually went down on women, I assumed that was really just a porn thing (considering my ratio or male oral to female oral you'd think it a myth too) Shit, considering my bj frequency, if you consider one gf as an outlier, BJs are porn things. Hell, the W had been trying to convince me they are only in porn. Wait... they're not?!? I haven't had one in nearly 25 years.
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Post by brian on Sept 18, 2017 18:45:45 GMT -5
The conversation in that article is so eerily close to the conversations I've attempted with my wife. In her mind it's my fault to even want sex and the way I make her feel is why we aren't having sex. She's done nothing wrong in her mind so there's nothing she needs to change. I just need to be more understanding and not place such importance on sex. A few times in the heat of an argument she's told me I need to move out. I've asked her why it should be me that moves out and she replied it's because I'm the one who's not being a husband and have no desire to work on it. WTF!!!! I'll admit I'm not blameless but she doesn't see anything she should be blamed for! I don't even know where to start to address that comment. Iceman, are you ready to potentially put a fork in this relationship? How about this response: The choices that both of us have made have put us where we are today, and the choices that we make from here on out will determine where we end up. I can no longer live the way we have been, and I cannot and will not except the blame for everything. I see 3 choices in front of us. Let us each choose 2, and the intersection of our choices will be what we do. The choices are: A) stay married and BOTH of us meet in the middle on our grievances B) agree to allow me (Iceman) to outsource C) divorce If you no longer wish to try, don't choose option A.
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Post by brian on Sept 10, 2017 21:09:08 GMT -5
I have only begun to open up to others about my SM. Several "know", but not in great detail. Sometimes it's discussed in a general sense and not about the emotional toll it really brings or how I really feel. There is ONE person that knows more than the rest and is the first person I have really opened up to. We have a little bit of a connection because she is also in a SM, but is being much more proactive than I have been. If only I had done the things she is doing now, I would haven't suffered through the last 17yrs.
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Post by brian on Sept 9, 2017 5:49:08 GMT -5
Where is option "E"... the one where you get your cuddles and hugs from him and your mind-blowing sex from someone else? Why is that not an option? Or if that is not "socially acceptable" to your partner, how about you get sex from him and cuddles and kisses from someone else? I suppose that's option "F"?
You can always choose an option that is valid until you finish school and get a job. Basically, get your kid in school and then the time you spend at work isn't all that much different than the time she is at school.
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Post by brian on Sept 5, 2017 21:16:55 GMT -5
Lol I'm more talking about single guys. Sadly much more likely to get laid than those in a SM It strikes home when you realize your college-age kids are probably seeing more action than you... Ummm... High School aged kids, my friend. I openly state to my roomie that I live my sexual life vicariously through our 17 yr old. Sad... very very sad.
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Post by brian on Sept 5, 2017 20:17:59 GMT -5
The sad part is that most men could pull that off if they just gave a damn. The problem for me is that I have no desire for romance if there's no possible chance of sex to follow within the next month or more and my highly logical brain weighs the benefit to cost ratio and determines it to be less than worth the effort. That's basically where I am with everything except being cordial. I used to massage her back regularly... but there's no return for me. I tried to make her fantasies come true, but there was never a return for my efforts. So now I exist to shuttle the kids around and just be me.
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Post by brian on Sept 5, 2017 14:30:45 GMT -5
And if all a woman wants is sex, that's great. The trouble starts when we want sex AND romance AND a man with a brain. This is right. Or anyway, for me. I don't even want anything too committed just now, but even the "lets date" scenario seems to scare some off. I'm coming to the conclusion I'm too much woman for some. I had no idea how intimidating a confident woman is to some men but the more confident I become the more I find that to sometimes be the case! Oh, what I would give for a confident woman. I don't like a clingy woman that seems to get her identity from the man she is dating. And if she's sexually confident??? WOWZA!!! I want an intellectual and emotional equal, not someone that drags me down.
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