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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 20, 2018 20:51:29 GMT -5
I've got to ask this for your benefit, "what about the children?" Do you think that they will remain naive during this?
If so, doesn't it make you come out more of the bad guy?
What they see on the surface, "Mr. excellent treatment"
Then comes mom, "jumping off and only interested in the gravy train".
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Post by baza on Jan 20, 2018 21:20:40 GMT -5
Well Sister surfergirl , if you are in a place where you are going to - "jump this gravy train when another deal comes along" - then a new set of choices emerges.
Are you going to - - be available and single when the appropriate candidate comes up ? or - not be available and single when the appropriate candidate comes up ?
The choices don't get any easier do they ? Choice is a bitch. But no-one gets a pass.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 20, 2018 21:41:13 GMT -5
Just another reminder: You are your own gravy train! You have your own career, your own beautiful, wonderful, sexy, loving ,caring self. The same person your family is so happy to be with.
Someone who should never have to "settle" for a re-set" and all it's negative after affects.
Instead you can settle for a fulfilled life style being happy with yourself, giving and receiving from someone who doesn't even know how to re-set someone, but is faithful and true, who desires you with consistency.
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 20, 2018 21:44:54 GMT -5
greatcoastal My children were all against me when we told them I filed for divorce. They see me as the initiator, and therefore, responsible. I do agree, though, it's more respectable not to have a guy to jump to. They'll think the demise of the marriage is because I cheated and not that my husband signed me up for a sexless wedding night and marriage against my knowledge. I see your point. baza Regarding my availability, I've let men I'm interested in know I'm available. (Hence, the affair/non-affair.) After digging around, though, I just don't see any more candidates. (Maybe I'm too picky or maybe I have a broken heart.) I went online locally and there was not any that peaked my interest. I'm just not going to give up nightly massages until the massages stop. When they stop, I'll leave. It sounds so cold, and not in alignment with my values, but there it is. Question for the men:
How is it that my husband can not perform for 21 years but now he can? How is that even possible? Is the desire now there because he sees me as "hard to get"?
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 20, 2018 21:56:02 GMT -5
I'll only speak for myself to answer your question for the men," I can't answer that, nor can I understand it". I think it's safe to say that the majority of men on here feel the same way. "We sure are not wired that way. Chasing after the hard to get just leads to deceit and rejection, but you....are giving him the prize?"
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Post by baza on Jan 20, 2018 22:05:49 GMT -5
It's a nice side step you put on there Sister surfergirl , but the inconvenient fact remains that you ARE married. A scenario for you - It is January 2019. A great unattached candidate emerges out of the gloom. But the great (and unattached) candidate has a policy of only dating single women. You just blew that opportunity, by virtue of your choice you made in January 2018 You aren't available. To your question - Your posts thus far in no way paint you as "hard to get" so I reckon you can rule that one out straight off. Most likely, he always could perform, but chose not to (with you at least). And "perform" could well be the operative word. As in, he can get a rod no trouble at all, and can thus put on a short term "act" to placate you from time to time.
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 20, 2018 22:12:38 GMT -5
baza -- BOOM. I get it. Thank you for the feedback.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 20, 2018 22:41:12 GMT -5
greatcoastal Question for the men:
How is it that my husband can not perform for 21 years but now he can? How is that even possible? Is the desire now there because he sees me as "hard to get"? I'll answer your question with a question. How is it that my X only wanted intimacy every 3 months until I told her I was not staying in the marriage under those conditions? Suddenly she was available 3 times a week for about 3 months. Then things went back to the quarterly system. How is that even possible? Was the desire there then because she saw me as "easy to get"?
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 21, 2018 9:15:19 GMT -5
worksforme2 To be fair, women just have to show up. A guy has to have something, uh, to work with. She did not "desire" you. She had to step up in case you were serious. When the pressure was off, she went back to her hobbies. The better question, I suppose, is: Do you want to stay in a marriage where sex is not mutual? None of us do, but our behavior is the true tell. The pain of leaving is greater than the pain of staying, and I think it's really that simple. And then one day, for some of us, the scales tip....
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Post by elkclan2 on Jan 21, 2018 13:10:36 GMT -5
One other reason not to leave for a new partner is that the relationship between your children - including adult children -and the new partner could be seriously affected, as your children have to come to terms with both the end of the marriage and the new relationship. Sure, there's a point where you just say 'they'll have to accept it' and they do or they don't depending on personality and preference. But the less muddled it is, I can say as someone whose mother DID do this, the easier it is to accept.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 30, 2018 9:13:07 GMT -5
greatcoastal My children were all against me when we told them I filed for divorce. They see me as the initiator, and therefore, responsible. I do agree, though, it's more respectable not to have a guy to jump to. They'll think the demise of the marriage is because I cheated and not that my husband signed me up for a sexless wedding night and marriage against my knowledge. I see your point. baza Regarding my availability, I've let men I'm interested in know I'm available. (Hence, the affair/non-affair.) After digging around, though, I just don't see any more candidates. (Maybe I'm too picky or maybe I have a broken heart.) I went online locally and there was not any that peaked my interest. I'm just not going to give up nightly massages until the massages stop. When they stop, I'll leave. It sounds so cold, and not in alignment with my values, but there it is. Question for the men:
How is it that my husband can not perform for 21 years but now he can? How is that even possible? Is the desire now there because he sees me as "hard to get"? I wanted to continue your conversations on this thread instead of on "Profile Pictures" since that original thread was about being found out by your spouse by pasting pics on line. One thing I hope you will discover is what a valuable journal this will be for you many months from now when you look back and see your progress. Or when and if you fall backwards how it can pick you up and help you to move forward. I read this today and wanted to share it with you. shrink4men.com/2018/01/26/narcissist-club-rules-1-and-2-dont-tell-the-narcissist-theyre-a-narcissist/ I think it hit's home for you as you try to explain your H's behavior towards you and expect him to suddenly change. I found myself doing the same thing. Using the words 'control" and confronting my wife about her manipulative ways. She would in turn up her tactics even ore by doing things through the children and more secretively. While continuing to look like she is innocent of doing anything wrong, and it's all for the children.
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 30, 2018 9:58:09 GMT -5
greatcoastal Thanks for that link. The thing that got us into therapy is because I caught on to the blame-shifting, never ever being wrong at any cost, and came across the term "narcissist". I forced him into therapy with a real threat (go or get out). I chose a well-respected therapist. After several sessions, he said that my husband was NOT a clinical narcissist, and that if he was, it was not fixable. However, he was the worst dismissive avoidant the therapist has ever seen in 30 years of practice. I don't know if that helps. There are certainly many unhealthy traits -- a commitment to NEVER being wrong at any cost -- that lead to a non-marriage. Yet, he's changing SLOWLY and sometimes it's like pulling teeth. However, the changes are real. I've never ever experienced him listening to feedback, and now he does. Is it re-love bombing? Only time will tell. One thing i left out of my story is that my husband did NOT lawyer up when I filed. I believe he truly loves me. Whether he has the skills to be in a relationship of give-and-take remains to be seen, but he appears to be working very hard-- staying in therapy and making changes, albeit frustrating for me as I wait. But the changes ARE there. When he regresses though, it sends me into a tailspun of, "Here we go again!"
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Post by hopingforachange on Jan 30, 2018 10:14:10 GMT -5
The regressions are even worse then refusing to change/improve the intimacy.
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Post by Dan on Jan 30, 2018 11:14:26 GMT -5
I chose a well-respected therapist. After several sessions, he said that my husband... Wait: you pushed him in to individual therapy, and you picked his therapist? And then the therapist discussed his diagnosis of your H with you? Seems very irregular... but that is how I initially read your post. Perhaps you speaking of a couples therapist. Couples therapy is a VERY different beast than individual therapy. And it still sounds a bit irregular that he would diagnose your H as part of couples therapy, and discuss it so frankly with you. In couples therapy, note that sometimes members of the couple (and sometimes even the therapist) attempts to "fix" or "save" the marriage. A more enlightened approach is for the therapist to assist the couple in being honest about what they want, and helping them figure out if they have overlaps in what they want. If so: the therapist can help them make a plan to try to achieve it. If the overlaps are minimal or non-existent: he can help both parties come to terms with it, and coax them to make plans for the next phase of their lives, which may mean no longer being a couple. Do you think ALL THREE of you are approaching it this way?
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 30, 2018 11:57:19 GMT -5
Dan That's a complex question. We showed up as a couple, because I did not realize (yet) that marriage therapy is a joke. Couples present it as a "marriage problem" but it is all just a symptom of two individuals with problems they need to deal with (even if one individual is 'healthy', he/she is enabling some sort of bad behavior and that needs to be understood). We hopped from therapist to therapist until he could no longer deny they were all pointing at him as "the identified client". So legally, the first therapist was able to discuss my husband with me individually because technically we signed up as couple's therapy, except the focus was on his individual therapy. He's actually still with him individually now for two years. (I lost my respect for him as time went on. I think this therapist coddles my husband too much. Very non-confrontational.) All agreed that divorce was an option and the most likely outcome, but they also all agreed that he seemed to be making progress. To kind of underscore the point a little, these are Christians and don't "believe" in divorce and have a goal of saving the marriage at all costs...something I strongly disagree with. I pointed out that I was not "divorcing my husband", but rather, "just saying out loud what already occurred in the marriage when he chose to neglect and abandon me starting on the wedding night....Did anyone here have a problem with truth-telling? I'm not divorcing him, I'm just not lying anymore [that we have a marriage]." So far, nobody has had a comeback to that. Hope that makes SOME sense. As far as what you think a more enlightened approach to therapy is, yes, I found an individual therapist (whom my husband has never met) who was working with me on navigating the questions you asked. Unfortunately, she left the country for three months just recently, at a very bad point for me....
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