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Post by theexplorer on Apr 14, 2023 15:01:38 GMT -5
I have to make this a very quick post. Short answer: I do NOT believe your wife!!
Demisexuals have to develop a relationship with someone prior to becoming sexually attracted to them. Your wife has had time to develop a relationship with you. Therefore, if she is not attracted to you, it is NOT because she is a demisexual. It sounds like she is attempting to hide behind the demisexual label to avoid having sex with you.
Your wife could be an asexual. Some asexual people have sex at times. (Like to get a ring on their finger!)
It is more likely that your wife is not attracted to you. Could be lots of reasons. It could very well be a situation you can not change. In other words, the problem is inside of her!
Back to demisexuals: Demisexuals can be great partners. Once they are attracted to someone, they can have a normal sex life. One of the biggest things to recommend them is that they will almost never cheat. Demisexuals typically do not enjoy dating because it is difficult for them. Therefore, they are less likely to divorce for frivolous reasons because are NOT interested in dating again.
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Post by theexplorer on Dec 2, 2022 12:45:48 GMT -5
It may be a good idea to look into the legal ramifications of divorce in your area. (The laws vary from place to place.) The reason for suggesting this is in some places, the length of time you are married affects the outcome of the divorce.
In my case, there was a small window of time after my wife cut off the sex, that I could have left with minimal financial consequences. Unfortunately I was unaware of the laws regarding this back then, so I did NOT chose to escape during that time. Leaving now would be vastly more expensive! (I have recently been reconsidering the idea though!)
There is a lot of great advice on this website. There are many, many factors to consider in the decisions you will be making over the coming months. Marriage and children affect many of the areas in our lives. I would encourage you to attempt to consider and weigh all of these factors in the decisions you make. This is easier said than done in my experience!
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Post by theexplorer on Dec 2, 2022 12:20:54 GMT -5
The only other thing I have found out is if I divorce I am financially fucked! There it is. I done it.
And THIS is the primary reason many people stay married!!
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Post by theexplorer on Nov 28, 2022 19:37:42 GMT -5
Wow!!! I had not checked in here for a while. Did not realize that folks were still commenting on this discussion.
OK an update:
Well, first off, lets talk a bit about my relationship history.
For many years my wife was involved in gas lighting me. At times she attempted to convince me that her lies were true. Sometimes, she would totally confuse and befuddle me. I did NOT understand why she did this, and had no idea what was behind her behavior.
About 2 1/2 years ago, I began called her out on the gaslighting. (It was shortly before we began having sex again.) I told her to stop the gaslighting because it is a form of emotional abuse. My words seemed to hit her quite forcefully. At that point in time, I didn't understand her behavior, but had learned enough to recognize it. Since that time, her gaslighting has been much less frequent.
I recently picked up a library book call, "Gaslighting" by Stephanie Moulton Sarkis, PhD. This book has clearly explained her behavior. It has been a real eye opener!! This author recommends leaving a gaslighter. The first time I read the chapter on gaslighting in intimate relationship I literally got physically sick!! (I missed work the next day!!) This author so accurately described my wife's behavior during the 10+ sexless years of my marriage.
Next, I picked up another book called "State of Affairs" by Ester Perel. That book has also been excellent. The chapter on Sexless marriages really hit home with me.
Bottom line: After reading these books, I finally gave myself "permission" to leave my marriage. Now in practical terms, that will not be taking place anytime soon. The huge surprise is that once I decided that I could leave, I felt FANTASTIC!!! Yup, FANTASTIC!!! As in, I haven't felt this great in over 15 years FANTASTIC!! My energy level is far higher. Sometimes I just start singing for no reason! It is great!! A couple of people who know me have commented that I appear to be so much happier! The transformation has been amazing!!
Honestly, I have only started working on an exit plan. It will be a long, complicated procedure. In fact, I may decide to stay and outsource instead of leaving. Of course, before outsourcing, I will be in a position to leave. If the wife discovers she has competition that would hurt her ego. She gets stupendously vindictive when her ego is threatened! I don't have the future mapped out yet, but it appears bright!
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Post by theexplorer on May 3, 2022 12:04:57 GMT -5
Just a brief update:
I've made efforts to socialize more and have been really enjoying it.
On the issue of finding someone I could love and be emotionally close to, I've had a bit of a revelation. I think my drive in that direction has been due to my lack of love for myself. Being in a sexless marriage for so many years, led me to feel down deep inside that I am NOT a lovable man. Before I look for someone else to love me, I need to re-learn to love myself. If anyone has some suggestions on this matter, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
In regard to Northstarmom's comment, You may very well be proven correct! There have been several times it has taken me MONTHS to realize accuracy of your wise words!
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Post by theexplorer on May 3, 2022 11:55:52 GMT -5
Glad to hear you are having a great day. Those kind of days brighten one's life!
Winter finally seems to be gone here. Spring is one of my favorite seasons. I love this time of year!! The weather around here is very dreary in the winter. It is typically very rainy with gray skies and frequently fog. When spring arrives everything comes back to life and it (usually!) rains less. Spring is such a beautiful season!
I'm planning a family picnic for my side of the family. (My wife may or may not participate.) Either way, I'm looking forward to the family picnic! I will be planning more events like this over the coming months. One of my Aunts used to set these events up. Unfortunately, she passed away. Since that time, no one has taken on that role.
To get back to Hanamidreaming's post, this could be a more engaging conversation if the part about driving a stick WAS a euphemism! I suppose this isn't the right place for that conversation though!
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 28, 2022 12:55:44 GMT -5
First off, sorry to hear about your situation. Marriage can cause tons of heart ache...
Like the others have suggested, I'd guess she is either already outsourcing or is seriously considering / preparing to do so.
You may want to take steps to protect your finances, as she may choose to divorce you. You will presumably need money for medical care, so keep that in mind.
You can call her the love of your life. If she is behaving this badly, I would question if you are the love of her life!
Edit: I do not know the age of scooter2u's wife, but since they have been married for 32 years, she may be early 50's. I have observed that many couples experience problems in their later 40's to early 50's. There are a number of changes that frequently occur during this time period. Children leave home. Menopause or Andropause, etc. During this timeframe, many people question whether they are happy with their lives. Do they want to continue living as they have been living. How do they want to live their remaining years. Sometimes people will make significant or even drastic changes during this period of their lives.
Mrs. Scooter2u could be experiencing a drop in libido due to menopause which would lead to less frequent sex. With the other behavior that Mr. Scooter2u mentioned I doubt that is the real issue. (Her wanting to learn new sex skills, losing weight, etc.) Since this started 3 years ago, it's my guess that she wants a new man.
There is another possible explanation for Mrs. Scooter2u's behavior after Mr. Scooter2u's diagnosis. It could be that she is worried about being a single woman. She could be wondering if she is still attractive to other men. She is probably less attractive now than she was 32 years ago. (Advancing age rarely makes people more attractive!) Perhaps she feels that she has less to offer a man now. (She is presumably to old to have children.) It may be hard for her to talk about such potentially deep seated fears. If she can be persuaded to open up and talk about such matters, it might be good.
One final point. It seems like there are quite a few people that are mid 40's to mid 50's on this website. I suspect quite a few of us have been considering how we want to live the remaining years of our life.
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 12, 2022 17:20:16 GMT -5
"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams.
Those of us in a sexless marriage know exactly what Robin Williams meant!! The people closest to us are capable of hurting us the most deeply. Therefore, being rejected by a spouse is an intensely personal rejection!!
The time I was most lonely was during the worst period of my marriage. Laying in bed at night next to her was when it hurt the most intensely. I would frequently awaken during the night and reach out and touch my sleeping wife. She is a very sound sleeper, so she never realized what I was doing. She did NOT want to be touched when she was awake, so the only time I could touch her was while she slept.
Those memories are still painful! Unfortunately, your marriage has been more difficult and painful than mine. Reading your story brought back so many emotions! Your story is so similar to mine. A sexless marriage sucks!!!
You mentioned that you have been damaged by living with your husbands constant rejection. This is certainly true. I was hurt in a number of ways that were not obvious. Back when I first joined this board, I had no idea how deeply my wife's actions had hurt me. Thankfully, we can heal.
There are some great people on this web board. You can find support, advice and help. Welcome to the group!
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 12, 2022 16:21:17 GMT -5
Yes Baza, you summed it up well. I need a better support system! Most of the folks in my life currently are over 70 years of age. Several of them are in poor health.
I've thought about what you posted on the previous page over the last few days. You mentioned something to the effect that one's spouse isn't likely to appreciate a friendship with an emotional connection. That is exactly what I was contemplating in first category of the previous post. Yes, my wife would have a problem with that idea! If I do that, it will have to be kept on the down low.
Back when I was a young guy I knew an old farmer. The guy deeply appreciated me. (My creativity saved his crop one year!) The old guy also loved to tease me. One of his sayings was that I "could not see the forest for the trees." In other words, I tend to get so absorbed in the details that I miss the big picture. The old guy's analysis of me is correct all to often!!
Basically, what I was considering in the first category of the previous post is to have an emotional affair. I did not realize that when writing it. I did not see the forest for the trees!! Yea, that idea would lead to being "busted" by the wife sooner or later!
I need to get out and socialize. You are correct on that. Less thinking and planning combined with more socializing is probably a better strategy!!
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 5, 2022 17:12:58 GMT -5
Sorry guys!! I was NOT being very clear in the previous post!
OK, the three possible people:
1. Someone for emotional connection: This is the most challenging one for me figure out! I was thinking of possibly a lesbian friend, as Northstarmom suggested. Perhaps a family member would work. In theory, a guy friend would work. In practice, I doubt that would be comfortable for me! Not to mention that it is unlikely that many heterosexual man would be interested!!
I knew two guys that appeared to have an emotional connection. One of the guys was a heterosexual. The other guy was a gay man. They lived together for years. The gay guy had a gay partner. (The partner lived in a different city.) The heterosexual guy had some casual girlfriends occasionally. Those two guys had an unusual friendship for sure. Someone suggested that I may be able to form a close emotional friendship with a gay man. I have not been around very many gay men, so I have no idea if that is even a likely possibility. The person who suggested this option pointed out that if I were to do this, people would assume I'm gay. Growing up in a homophobic environment, I question if this would ever be comfortable for me.
Back when I was a young man, I had a reasonably close friendship with a girl. We never were sexually intimate. I suspect that she was an asexual. At the time, I did not know that some people are actually asexual. I have no idea how my wife would feel about a close asexual female friend.
Another option that crossed my mind was looking for such a friendship with a woman who is in prison. (Serving a life sentence perhaps?) A deal like this would eliminate some issues. On the other hand, I'm not sure prison is a good place to look for a close friend!! People there are not known for being of the best character!
2. A friend for socializing: I'm definitely thinking of a guy for this! Back when I was a teenager, I had a great friend. He lived near my home. We often went to parties and social events together. He was a very outgoing guy. I am an introvert. During most of that time, neither of us had a regular girlfriend. We did a LOT of stuff together! I was always more comfortable going to places or events with him than going alone. That guy had some exceptional social skills and a great personality!
My wife has lost interest in social events. She wants to stay home. Frequently, she is in to much pain or is to tired to leave her favorite chair. Often on week-ends, I go out and do things alone. That starts to suck after a while! I would like to have a guy like my teenage friend, today.
My wife would not want me to have such a friendship. The more I've thought about this matter, the more I'm thinking that she misses going places with me. That may be why she has been giving me grief about male friends. Perhaps telling her less might be best for everyone.
3. The third person I had in mind is my current wife: I am NOT considering any other sexual partners!! My wife and I have been having semi-regular sex for months. Sometimes she is in to much pain, or is to tired to have sex. Those issues seem to be part of one's sex life in the second half of life! Overall, She has been making an effort to meet my sexual needs. I like living with her. She is a very likeable woman.
To Mirrororchid's questions, The article I previously mentioned had little to say about the husband. I don't recall any mention of how emotionally close he was to his wife. It was presented as a case, so familiar to those of us on this web board, that he was primarily a refuser.
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 4, 2022 15:54:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification on emotional affairs. I understand it now! I wanted to better understand that to assist in creating a plan for the future.
Mirrororchid, your last post describes my wife quite accurately!
I've thought a great deal about NorthStarMom's question of whether I'd be happy staying in this marriage if I had a close, emotional connection with another woman. That is an excellent question. To simplify her question, "What do I really want?"
Up to this point, the goal has been to preserve the marriage and find some way to create a better life for myself. On the one hand, I do not want to leave. The primary motivation is financial reasons. I read a book sometime back where the writer basically presented a case where we can have most anything we want in life, if we are willing to pay the price. SO, on the other hand, I could leave the marriage...but the cost of leaving is more than I've been willing to "pay". So far, I've been searching for ways to create a better life and remain in the marriage.
I read an article some time back about a woman who had a unhappy, unfulfilling marriage. She wanted to leave, but couldn't bring herself to pull the plug. There were to many good things in her marriage for her to walk away. On the other hand, her husband was distant, absorbed in other responsibilities and seldom spent time with her. He was rarely interested or willing to have sex. He did not mistreat her, but he lived his own separate life. She couldn't find a way to be close or intimate with him.
This woman decided to solve the problem herself. She formed some close ties with a couple of other women. This helped to meet her need for emotional intimacy. She remained married to her husband, but she also found another man for a long term sexual relationship. (She did NOT tell her husband about the other man. Her husband was apparently so self absorbed he never noticed.) The writer also got involved in some community activities and a civic group. She did not mention her age, but her perspective made it appear that she was probably well in to the "Grandma years." She closed the article by writing something to the effect that she had managed to make a reasonably good life for herself. She admitted her method was unconventional. She believed she had taken a bad marriage and made the best of it.
I have thought that this woman's approach might be a decent solution for my situation. She was separating several components of a typical marriage. She had female friends for emotional intimacy. She had an affair partner for affection and sex. She had a husband with whom she shared a beautiful home, children and a social life. (Her husband was a very well to do, respected man in their community.) In my situation, the categories would be different, but the same basic concept. My categories might be a person for emotional connection, a friend for socializing, my wife for a house mate and sex partner.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this woman's solution to her unhappy marriage? There is a risk of marriage problems with an emotional or physical affair, but are there other risks I'm not noticing? I would appreciate any input on the matter.
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 24, 2022 16:37:43 GMT -5
Mirrororchid, Thanks for putting into words what I've been attempting to sort out through the fog of my marriage. It's difficult to sort out some relationship issues, especially when my wife's frame of reference is quite different from my own. Your last line sums it up amazingly well, "Perhaps loving her less, is more loving." That appears to be the bottom line. It doesn't make sense to the logical side of the brain....but experience seems to bear it out.
My wife absolutely loves having other women being attracted to me. She will NOT admit this, but her behavior tells the real story. It is best when one of her close friends compliments me.
Relationship security is very important to me. It is of minimal importance to my wife. It took MANY years to figure that point out. It does appear that my wife is attracted to men who are "difficult to keep".
I've thought about why it has been so difficult to accept that someone else could be closer than my wife. That idea that my wife should be my closest friend has been my philosophy since childhood. That idea came from one of two places. Today, I realize that both of the possible sources of origin are not trustworthy sources. After considering it, it would be safe to reject that philosophy. I am going to work to deepen some friendships over the coming months. (And NOT feel guilty about it!!!)
In regard to female friends, I think that following my Father's example with his cousin is a great plan. He kept their close friendship an open secret. Everyone knew they were pals, but I don't think anyone knew how close they actually were. Dad never admitted it to me, even after she passed away! I figured it out from watching his behavior.
Lets talk about emotional affairs for a bit. I have been doing some research on emotional affairs in an attempt to understand the differences between a friendship and an emotional affair. It seems like there are some differences of opinion on what constitutes an emotional affair. According to some sources, one of the identifying characteristics of an emotional affair is confiding things to the affair partner that are kept secret from one's spouse. Now in my case, there are many things I would LOVE to share with my wife. Unfortunately, my wife has zero interest in hearing my deeper thoughts. Would it be an emotional affair if I were to share these thoughts with a close female friend?
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 21, 2022 16:16:17 GMT -5
My marriage is much improved in recent months! I'm very thankful for the sex we have been having! There are still some questions on how long the sex will last. Is this just some longer term re-set sex? Has she really changed course? I've tried talking with her about it. The problem is, she has lied so many times about sex, that I have difficulty believing or trusting anything she says on the subject. On many subjects, the wife is quite honest. When it comes to sex, she lies quite often. Her lies about sex used to bother me. Then one day it crossed my mind that many men lie about sex as well! Her lies are still annoying, but it helped to recognize her behavior is relatively common.
The question of why do I want to fall in love with her again has been haunting me for days!! Part of me feels that being married means a person SHOULD deeply love their spouse. That is the way it SHOULD work out!! Then it comes to mind that the word "should" has caused tremendous problems, pain and suffering in many people's lives! (Including my own life!!) Rather than focusing on what "should be", it is almost always better to focus on what actually "is".
There are some articles online about people who are incapable of loving other people. These articles describe my wife fairly accurately. She grew up in a home filled with more violence rather than love. (Her parents were alcoholics.) Yes, she "should" love me because I'm her husband. I am certain she loves to a limited degree. In practical terms, expecting her to deeply love me is unlikely to actually work out. Her parents did NOT demonstrate love to each other or to her. Growing up with minimal love affects her ability to love.
I don't recall when she told me the truth about her childhood. We had been together for at least 10 years before she told me. Prior to our marriage, she was reluctant to talk much about her childhood. She acted very loving when we were dating. I did not realize that it was all an act.
It seems that leaving the marriage "AS IS" may be the best option. If we get closer, she could cut off the sex again. If I attempt to get closer to her, that could push her away. Due to her background, it may be a practical impossibility for her to deeply love me.
Back to the question of why I want to fall in love with my wife again. I have always thought that a man's wife should (there's that word again!!) be the person he is closest to. It's been real difficult to move away from that basic belief. The more I've examined it though, the more I'm questioning it. Intellectually, I'm thinking a close friend, that would not be a threat to my marriage, may be the best option.
To give an illustration, my father is not close to my mother. My father's childhood was spent near one of his first cousins. They grew quite close during childhood and remained very close to her death. I did NOT realize until after her death, just how close Dad was to her. Dad grieved her death more deeply than anyone else! I've never seen him so emotionally torn up over anyone's death!!! I knew he would talk to her late at night after everyone else had gone to sleep. After he got a cordless phone, he often went outside to talk with her. I don't know what they talked about, but he wanted privacy. I'm NOT suggesting he was sexually involved with his cousin, but they were VERY, VERY close to each other.
As to why I fell out of love with the wife: Lack of emotional intimacy. Well over 10 years of a sexless marriage. Her efforts to control or dominate me. Maybe other reasons that aren't currently coming to mind.
I'm going to contemplate why I'm struggling so much with the idea of having someone else be closer than my wife. The wife obviously doesn't want to be real close to me, so why am I struggling with the idea of being close to someone else? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 21, 2022 14:43:44 GMT -5
This article definitely helped me understand the reality of my situation. My wife's love is shallow and superficial. Realizing there is a problem has been much easier than understanding the problem. The question I've had lingering in my mind has been, "Why doesn't she love me more deeply?" Is the problem with her, or am I a man that can not be deeply loved for some reason? Is there some flaw in me that contributes to this situation? Is there anything I can do or change to become more lovable?
The linked article describes my wife reasonably well. (Coincidently, it almost perfectly describes one of my parents!) Based on this article, my wife would probably find it difficult to deeply love any man.
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 16, 2022 18:31:49 GMT -5
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