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Post by baza on Jul 23, 2016 21:42:48 GMT -5
Sister bbgirl made a telling point a couple of days back concerning the motivating factors that might propel you out of your ILIASM shithole.
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Of the two motivating factors - the hope and potential of a new life (positive) motivation, and the fear of your situation continuing and worsening (negative) motivation it is usually the negative motivation that pushes people across the line.
To paraphrase -
"when the pain of staying reaches the tipping point where it exceeds the pain of leaving, you leave".
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Basic human nature at work here.
Humans will invariably choose the thing that hurts less.
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Today, you are in an ILIASM shithole, and it hurts. It hurts real bad.
But today, it doesn't hurt as much as you figure leaving would hurt.
So, you stay.
A perfectly legitimate choice.
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Tomorrow, it may be different.
After absorbing another lap of the ILIASM shithole track, that additional hurt may tip the scales.
The hurt of staying may reach the tipping point where it outstrips the hurt you figure that leaving would involve.
And, you'll leave.
A perfectly legitimate choice.
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So in many ways, I wish you the worst.
That the avoidant spouse in your deal ramps up their behaviour, makes your life a bigger misery than it already is, that they scale new heights in their avoidance strategy, and become insufferable.
And that they do so quick !!
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I would wish this, not out of malevolence, or ill will toward you, but rather to bring your ongoing pain and hurt to an end.
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Post by ggold on Jul 23, 2016 21:58:07 GMT -5
- So in many ways, I wish you the worst. That the avoidant spouse in your deal ramps up their behaviour, makes your life a bigger misery than it already is, that they scale new heights in their avoidance strategy, and become insufferable. - I would wish this, not out of malevolence, or ill will toward you, but rather to bring your ongoing pain and hurt to an end. I get this baza. This is exactly what has happened to me. |
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Post by pfviento on Jul 24, 2016 1:46:16 GMT -5
It would probably make the decisions easier to make.
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Post by petrushka on Jul 24, 2016 6:03:44 GMT -5
People have different pain thresholds. I have not been here much lately. Busy packing up the house ... but anyway, I got a glimpse at the thread where DryCreek and CreelUnion described their wives' respective behaviour and I was just gobsmacked - there's no way I would put up with that. No. Freaking. Way.
Once had a woman move in with me, "MY tall blonde", I didn't previously realize that she was some kind of BPD or in any even highly neurotic person. The moment she moved in, the friendly demeanor disappeared and she turned into a harpy. Dr. Jekyll and Mrs. Hyde. The second time she screamed at me for no reason, she was OUT. First out of my bed, then out of my house 2-3 months later.
That rejection I read from DC's and CU's wives is just brutal, the way I read it. It turns my stomach just to read it. You guys have my sympathy.
Ironic you might say that I stay: but my wife asks if I'd like to come take a shower with her, and laughs delightedly when I rub my soapy body against hers. When I go to bed at 2 am and she's semi awake, she crawls over and spoons with me. No brutal rejection there. I think that brutal rejection deserves turn and turn about, at least in my world view.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 6:24:40 GMT -5
baza, this is exactly what I need to hear right now. Thank you for wishing me the worst - I wish it for myself!! The last couple of days/weeks here have brought about a fresh round of realizing this marriage is slowly killing me. (I'm beyond embarrassed now at the thread where I said I was going to LOVE my refuser out of it. Thanks for not laughing me off forum, everyone. It was worth a shot, wasn't it??) Anyway, I'm kicking myself over and over and over again these last couple days for not leaving back in March, after he blacked out on the wood floor in front of our young son's bedroom. That could have and should have been our pivot point. ENOUGH already. There were many worst moments before that one that I should have seized as well. In fact, if I'm brutally honest with myself, my marriage has become an aggregate of "worst moments" during which, well, I should have snapped and left. Add to that aggregate the refrain "why didn't I leave then?" and my marriage is stacking up pretty poorly. Spent a tearful hour on the phone with my mom yesterday talking about all of this. My mom is the sweetest, kindest, gentlest person I know. I'm not exaggerating. She gets along with everyone. She never picks a fight. She is pure LOVE. She's been a rock and an inspiration for me. But yesterday, she finally admitted (after 20 years of my being together with H) that she doesn't like him, doesn't like how he treats me, doesn't like how he disciplines our kids, is afraid to be around him, and that her heart breaks for me. More tears from me. She's never said all of that in one breath. For her to say that, I know she means it. I don't mean to hijack. Apparently I have a lot to say today. Just wanted to say THANKS baza. I need all the well-wishes (worst-wishes?) I can get!
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Post by baza on Jul 24, 2016 6:26:02 GMT -5
I guess that is the key Brother Petrushka.
The 'tolerance level' - or the 'the negative motivation" factor in my post above, is going to be different for Brothers Creel, Dry, Petrushka, baza. And Sisters ggold, elle.
And for every other poster here.
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It might be worth re-phrasing the original post to read - "when your pain of staying reaches the tipping point where it exceeds the pain of leaving, you leave".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 6:27:09 GMT -5
Ironic you might say that I stay: but my wife asks if I'd like to come take a shower with her, and laughs delightedly when I rub my soapy body against hers. When I go to bed at 2 am and she's semi awake, she crawls over and spoons with me. No brutal rejection there. I think that brutal rejection deserves turn and turn about, at least in my world view. This warms my heart and well, makes me cry! I cannot even fathom this kind of enduring tenderness between two people. Thank your lucky stars, petrushka. And hang on tight! Not being rejected sounds like pure heaven to me. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 24, 2016 6:30:22 GMT -5
Mine was a quick decision to leave at the end and fear of being permantantly stuck played a key role. Originally I intended to stay until 2019, June to be exact, I called it my parole date. I had my exit strategy in place. I planned to stay for certain financial reasons based on speaking with an attorney earlier in the year it seemed like the best strategy for me. July of last year, he forgot my bday, we went on vacation in August and thankfully we were there with 11 other families for me to have fun with because we just kept our distance from each other the entire trip. Late August I went to see two more attorneys and they gave me better information than I heard earlier in the year. My ex did not take care of himself. Neglected everything and everyone in his life unless they served a purpose for him. My huge fear and I literally felt like he was a time bomb ticking and I was racing against a clock was: he would have a stroke, heart attack, something and then I would be stuck. I would not be capable to leave him then, how would it look to my children not to mention the burden on them. Here's the thing, nobody knows in life what will happen healthwise and if you plan to leave maybe when the kids are 18 then realize that the longer the exit strategy the longer the risk factor for it to not happen.
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 24, 2016 6:38:52 GMT -5
@elle - go talk to an attorney, heck talk to three attorneys.
See if it's doable and how things would turn out for you.
It sounds like you have had the worst and if you want a divorce then tell him that's what you are doing. Nobody can make anyone stay married to them.
(Don't tell him until after you see the attorney and possibly until the time he's being served).
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Post by petrushka on Jul 24, 2016 6:46:00 GMT -5
baza , this is exactly what I need to hear right now. Thank you for wishing me the worst - I wish it for myself!! The last couple of days/weeks here have brought about a fresh round of realizing this marriage is slowly killing me. (I'm beyond embarrassed now at the thread where I said I was going to LOVE my refuser out of it. Thanks for not laughing me off forum, everyone. It was worth a shot, wasn't it??) Anyway, I'm kicking myself over and over and over again these last couple days for not leaving back in March, after he blacked out on the wood floor in front of our young son's bedroom. That could have and should have been our pivot point. ENOUGH already. There were many worst moments before that one that I should have seized as well. In fact, if I'm brutally honest with myself, my marriage has become an aggregate of "worst moments" during which, well, I should have snapped and left. Add to that aggregate the refrain "why didn't I leave then?" and my marriage is stacking up pretty poorly. Spent a tearful hour on the phone with my mom yesterday talking about all of this. My mom is the sweetest, kindest, gentlest person I know. I'm not exaggerating. She gets along with everyone. She never picks a fight. She is pure LOVE. She's been a rock and an inspiration for me. But yesterday, she finally admitted (after 20 years of my being together with H) that she doesn't like him, doesn't like how he treats me, doesn't like how he disciplines our kids, is afraid to be around him, and that her heart breaks for me. More tears from me. She's never said all of that in one breath. For her to say that, I know she means it. I don't mean to hijack. Apparently I have a lot to say today. Just wanted to say THANKS baza . I need all the well-wishes (worst-wishes?) I can get! Er - Elle, you DO realize that you don't need a 'worst moment' to happen right now for you to pack your bags? You DO realize that that worst moment that happened in January, or X-mas 2013 for that matter, is enough if/when/once you realize that no improvement is forthcoming. And how many worst moments does it take for that realization? It mostly does pay, as Baz alway says, to get your ducks in a row, but once you have, you can leave any time at all, any time you want. It's down to YOU to make it happen, you don't have to wait for your D.H. to misbehave yet again. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 6:53:18 GMT -5
@elle - go talk to an attorney, heck talk to three attorneys. See if it's doable and how things would turn out for you. It sounds like you have had the worst and if you want a divorce then tell him that's what you are doing. Nobody can make anyone stay married to them. (Don't tell him until after you see the attorney and possibly until the time he's being served). Thank you. That's the kind of straight talking I need right now. In my heart, I guess I know it is over. I told him as much last week, "you have broken my heart one too many times." I've been crying for a few days now - cry when I power-walk, cry in the shower, cry in the car, etc... I'm grieving the end. The end is here. I'm staring at it like a deer in headlights. And it's time for this scared deer to act. I promise. And you can hold me to it here. I will call an attorney tomorrow. It's way past due. |
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Post by baza on Jul 24, 2016 7:00:15 GMT -5
Partially quoting bbgirl here - "Here's the thing, nobody knows in life what will happen healthwise and if you plan to leave maybe when the kids are 18 then realize that the longer the exit strategy the longer the risk factor for it to not happen".
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How true.
The bare facts.
I started seriously thinking about leaving a 30 year deal in June 09.
I had my legal advice and everything else teed up for a Jan 2010 departure.
An opportunity arose in Oct 09 out of nowhere, and I grabbed it.
I am now 6 years into the relationship of my life.
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How it might have looked had I stayed.
The marriage would have stayed the same or got worse.
On 17th April 2015, I would have been a widower.
I'd have been twice as rich as I was then.
I doubt that I would have been terribly happy.
Where things may have spun off from that point, I have no idea.
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It's been said before here, and elsewhere - "Time is NOT your friend"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 7:00:44 GMT -5
Point taken. But, no, I don't realize that or I'd be long gone. I can take an awfully lot from people and I give more chances than anyone I know, besides my mom. It's not been a good strategy for marriage to a narcissist (functional) alcoholic!! I know it's down to me. I just can't seem to pull the trigger. My therapist once asked me "why can't leaving be about YOU being happier and healthier? It doesn't have to be about him being bad or worse." Wise words that I should heed.
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 24, 2016 7:06:57 GMT -5
@elle - go talk to an attorney, heck talk to three attorneys. See if it's doable and how things would turn out for you. It sounds like you have had the worst and if you want a divorce then tell him that's what you are doing. Nobody can make anyone stay married to them. (Don't tell him until after you see the attorney and possibly until the time he's being served). Thank you. That's the kind of straight talking I need right now. In my heart, I guess I know it is over. I told him as much last week, "you have broken my heart one too many times." I've been crying for a few days now - cry when I power-walk, cry in the shower, cry in the car, etc... I'm grieving the end. The end is here. I'm staring at it like a deer in headlights. And it's time for this scared deer to act. I promise. And you can hold me to it here. I will call an attorney tomorrow. It's way past due. I will hold you to it honey!! It's not a big deal, you are just getting informed and educated so that you can make an informed decision for yourself. I cried a lot too, all the same places as you. It is part of the grief process. Now I cry once or twice a month so that gets better in time. I get it. You can do it! Hugs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 7:15:56 GMT -5
And now I'm crying because this means I have to call an attorney tomorrow. And when I promise, I mean it. I'll do it, even if it scares me half to death.  I think this means it's time for me to walk through the fire. I think I already am. Off to power walk so I can cry... |
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I think this means it's time for me to walk through the fire. I think I already am. Off to power walk so I can cry...
