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Post by Caris on Jul 9, 2016 16:43:13 GMT -5
I do wonder (in retrospect) if those who outsource actually cope better within the SM, and post SM?
It's just my observations from the posts here and previously on EP, over the years. I mean if you have had an AP, don't you at least feel wanted and desired by someone? Even if that person does not want you as a life partner, the fact that you are wanted and still desired has to account for helping you deal with the stress of the SM at least.
I'm not advocating outsourcing because that comes with its own problems. I'm just looking at one aspect...emotional welfare and strength to cope.
I never outsourced. I did fall deeply in love with a man on EP, and for that brief period when I felt loved and wanted, cherished, supported and encouraged by his love, the stress of my SM faded into the background. All the problems were still there, yet I felt such happiness and contentment that it was so much easier to deal with. I never felt his touch because we never met in real...he lives on the other side of the world...but even without touch and real sex, there was a huge boulder of misery lifted from my shoulders, and I started smiling for the first time in years. Of course, when it ended the pain was excruciating and almost killed me. Now, I not only had to deal with the SM issues, but the devestation of my broken heart. One on its own was hard enough, but two together had me crushed beyond belief.
But aside from my own experience, I can only imagine that having an AP in real, having touch, affection, closeness with another human being must at least help you feel something like I felt...even though mine was not in the physical realm. You feel wanted, and surely that has to help you cope on an emotional level as well as the physical release. I imagine it would help also post SM too, with self esteem and one's worth as a sexual being.
I may be wrong, but given how feeling loved from afar made me feel, I can only think being loved in real must comfort and strengthen a person.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 17:24:32 GMT -5
Well, in my limited experience you are right that it makes you feel good and desired in the short term. Unfortunately the devastation you felt at the end can be found in person, too. And then there is the guilt. And in person the risk is much higher. I wish I looked before I leaped.
Incidentally, I also wouldn't recommend an on-line only affair.
It's weird, during my marriage I had so much anger at being rejected that I felt no guilt about outsourcing. But now that I see him not as someone rejecting me and denying me, but as a good person, now I feel guilt.
I don't think there's any short cut to healing from the sexless marriage. I look at affairs like a drug addiction. It feels great while you're in the middle of doing it but in the long run it just creates new problems.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 18:48:48 GMT -5
I've had two affairs, and I'm not proud of my actions. I would never, ever want my husband to find out. Because even after everything he put me through, I care about him and his feelings.
An affair is like your second martini at happy hour: pure elation. A definite coping mechanism. It makes you strut instead of walk. But it leaves you curling your lip the next morning thinking, oh my god, what did I do?
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Post by adventura on Jul 9, 2016 19:03:54 GMT -5
I totally understand why people outsource. Sometimes it takes that extra push to make you see what you're missing. And some refusers actually prefer it if their partners outsource so they don't have to deal with their refusing ways.
That said, I had an affair in my late twenties and it was a trainwreck. Most of it was my personality - if the sex is good, I fall in love. Being in love with your affair partner while living with your SO or spouse is extremely stressful. The last thing you need is more stress when you're dealing with a SM.
Although I'm attracted to someone new while still in my current relationship, I'm only seeing New Guy in group meetup situations until I'm single again. I'm hoping I get healthier in my way of relating to men by exiting without a clear safety net.
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Post by ggold on Jul 9, 2016 19:43:21 GMT -5
I only slept with my AP once. Part of me wishes it would have lasted longer. The realistic part of me knows that it was all for the best that it began and ended quickly.
As each day passes, however, I send vibes out that someone will tempt me once again. I'm not proud to say that I would love to have an AP. One who I could connect with on occasion. I don't know if this will ever happen. It's just what I desire and I know it's probably wrong.
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Post by baza on Jul 9, 2016 19:44:00 GMT -5
I think that this concept of "outsourcing so you can feel better about yourself" is a fatally flawed strategy.
An expectation of another person "making you happy" is a position built on shaky foundations.
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A relationship can be a valued addendum to your life, complimenting various aspects of it.
But expecting a relationship to fix everything else that is not going so well for you is not realistic.
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Sort out / end your dysfunctional relationship would be my initial suggestion.
Then, sort yourself out.
Once you've done that (and it is a hard and challenging thing to undertake) the rest of the picture will look after itself.
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 9, 2016 21:11:37 GMT -5
Caris said: "I wonder (in retrospect) if those who outsource actually cope better within the SM, and post SM? It's just my observations from the posts here and previously on EP, over the years. I mean if you have had an AP, don't you at least feel wanted and desired by someone? Even if that person does not want you as a life partner, the fact that you are wanted and still desired has to account for helping you deal with the stress of the SM at least". I think the answer to this question is different for everyone so I will share my outsourcing experience and answer the questions as they apply to me. I first want to say that I was faithful to my husband for 21 years. I learned of the existence of a cheating website for married people. I wrestled with deciding to cheat or not for a year. In May of 2014 I decided to create an account. This was prior to becoming active on EP. I was a lurker for about 2 years. It took me a year to create an account on EP then another year to post my first story. My main purpose for the outsource was to figure out what was wrong with me. I had a list of questions in my head to ask like: Do I not give a good blow job? Am I not tight after having kids? Does your dick have trouble getting hard for me? Well we did the deed, four times that day, I asked my questions, realized it wasn't me and I got a great confidence boost. It was a Summer fling and it ended August of 2014. My AP had some personal reasons that made him have to stop. I was emotionally ok I kept emotions out of it. I can't say that during that Summer I felt wanted and desired. I didn't have the self esteem to be able to feel that way but I felt good that someone was wanting sex with me not per say wanting me. That has changed now. Fall, Winter, and Spring had passed and I reached out to my AP. I sent him a text risking being rejected. The next day we were in a hotel room and the sex was incredible. We have consistently seen each other for a year and I do feel desired and wanted by him. He can tell a difference in me from when we first met. I have grown sexually because I have challenged myself and he has challenged me. He sent me a text s month or two ago and it said, "I want you to remember that I always want you". Those words meant a lot. So did it help me cope better in the marriage? On the day I had sex I was probably nicer to my husband. Had less resentment but that day would pass and I was back to being miserable. AP and I only saw each other once a month at best. Some months schedules didn't work. Coping post SM? I'm still seeing him. We are just having too much fun to stop. He knows I'm dating and he really is the best thing for me post SM because I can be picky about who I date and not go on a date just because I want sex. A lot of players out there in the dating world and men that are really just boys. The men on this forum are clearly real men who are responsible and reliable. You will have no trouble finding a good woman, just don't marry her!  So yes having my AP was a blessing for me. The relationship helped me cope with the stress, feel wanted and desired, realize how not normal my marriage and my husband was, and allowed me to grow and challenge myself sexually as a woman. AP got to be with his first redhead too so some firsts for everyone. I had zero guilt, zero regrets looking back - which told me how over my marriage was. Outsourcing was a means to an end. I believe with all my heart that my truth was if I did not have the courage to outsource then I might still be stuck in an abusive marriage. Outsourcing gave me the confidence to go after what I deserve for my life. What everyone deserves for their life: to feel loved, desired and wanted. |
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Post by snowman12345 on Jul 9, 2016 21:18:55 GMT -5
Outsourcing or cheating or having an affair or whatever you want to call it is a kneejerk reaction to an unfulfilled need. It is simply filling that need for the here and now. I can't see it as a long term solution, more of a bridge to getting over the betrayal of withheld sex to a permanent solution.
Yes you will feel guilty about hurting your partner, but they are the ones that put you in the situation in the first place. You did what you needed to do to survive emotionally at that moment.
Good or bad - life is full of choices.
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Post by Caris on Jul 9, 2016 23:20:11 GMT -5
bballgirl: Thank you for sharing your experience. I found it insightful and touching. Thanks to everyone for your views. You have given me something to think about...not that I need an AP, I'm way past that stage now I'm divorced...just helps me better understand that if I had gone that route, then post SM may be just the same as it is now. I guess I'll never know, but it's interesting to see the different responses. Thanks!
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Post by Dan on Jul 11, 2016 6:52:23 GMT -5
I basically agree with the premise of Caris 's questions: yes, feeling loved and desired and appreciated and touched where a great relief; those times were like finding oases while wandering the middle of the SM desert. And it confirmed in me "it's not me, it's her (my refuser)"... and "(with the right person) I can be a pretty awesome companion and lover!" However a positive experience is not guaranteed: you have to go in to it with the right approach, choose your AP wisely, and be lucky enough that you (or they) don't slip up. I was able to have several positive experiences over the past ~15 years. For quite a while, I viewed "stay and cheat" as a long-term viable plan. Curiously, as I have moved closer to leaving the SM, I'm LESS hungry to find my next AP, as I'm more focused on the exit plan. In fact, I would say I'm not at this time "looking". Then again, if the universe is inclined to have me bump in to someone who could be a fun friend, trusted confidant, and steamy lover even before my exit is complete (and if I would be those things for her)... well, who am I to argue with the universe? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 9:19:48 GMT -5
Caris, It wouldn't have made any difference. It probably would have made it worse in your case. I'm guessing you prefer the strength of your integrity over any validation you might have gotten from an affair. I doubt deep down you have any doubts about your value as a human being or a woman.
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Post by Caris on Jul 11, 2016 10:37:36 GMT -5
I basically agree with the premise of Caris 's questions: yes, feeling loved and desired and appreciated and touched where a great relief; those times were like finding oases while wandering the middle of the SM desert. And it confirmed in me "it's not me, it's her (my refuser)"... and "(with the right person) I can be a pretty awesome companion and lover!" However a positive experience is not guaranteed: you have to go in to it with the right approach, choose your AP wisely, and be lucky enough that you (or they) don't slip up. I was able to have several positive experiences over the past ~15 years. For quite a while, I viewed "stay and cheat" as a long-term viable plan. Curiously, as I have moved closer to leaving the SM, I'm LESS hungry to find my next AP, as I'm more focused on the exit plan. In fact, I would say I'm not at this time "looking". Then again, if the universe is inclined to have me bump in to someone who could be a fun friend, trusted confidant, and steamy lover even before my exit is complete (and if I would be those things for her)... well, who am I to argue with the universe? Dan, you make a lot of sense. All problems aside that may arise from having an AP, I can only believe that with the "right" person, one's emotional strength is strengthened from feeling wanted and cared for. |
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Post by Caris on Jul 11, 2016 10:55:29 GMT -5
Caris, It wouldn't have made any difference. It probably would have made it worse in your case. I'm guessing you prefer the strength of your integrity over any validation you might have gotten from an affair. I doubt deep down you have any doubts about your value as a human being or a woman. True for most of those years, Creel. I'm such a loyal person, even to those who don't deserve my loyalty that I could not have gone outside the marriage and lived with myself. However, after 20-years, when I knew in my heart that I was married in name only, and we never did anything as a couple (using the kitchen separately, avoiding being in the same room at the same time...it was totally dead for the last 5-years, but still abusive), I think if the man I loved had been local, and had been free too, I think I would have. But that's all based on "ifs," and as Roger Whittaker sang, "I don't believe in "if" anymore." My own integrity and truth to self is probably the most important aspect of my personality. When I found that "he" was doing better in his marriage, and there was a chance for reconciliation and healing with his wife (he said he was in a SM too), I let him go. We remained friends of sorts for years, and my love for him never died, and I doubt ever will. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 11:10:42 GMT -5
I basically agree with the premise of Caris 's questions: yes, feeling loved and desired and appreciated and touched where a great relief; those times were like finding oases while wandering the middle of the SM desert. And it confirmed in me "it's not me, it's her (my refuser)"... and "(with the right person) I can be a pretty awesome companion and lover!" However a positive experience is not guaranteed: you have to go in to it with the right approach, choose your AP wisely, and be lucky enough that you (or they) don't slip up. I was able to have several positive experiences over the past ~15 years. For quite a while, I viewed "stay and cheat" as a long-term viable plan. Curiously, as I have moved closer to leaving the SM, I'm LESS hungry to find my next AP, as I'm more focused on the exit plan. In fact, I would say I'm not at this time "looking". Then again, if the universe is inclined to have me bump in to someone who could be a fun friend, trusted confidant, and steamy lover even before my exit is complete (and if I would be those things for her)... well, who am I to argue with the universe? Dan, you make a lot of sense. All problems aside that may arise from having an AP, I can only believe that with the "right" person, one's emotional strength is strengthened from feeling wanted and cared for. I'd be careful equating being callous or emotional distance with any form of strength. |
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Post by Caris on Jul 11, 2016 11:12:35 GMT -5
@creelunion said,
"I doubt deep down you have any doubts about your value as a human being or a woman."
I value myself very highly as a human being and a person, Creel. As a woman? I don't remember what feeling like a woman feels like, so I'm not sure about that.
I value myself as a mother, as a nurturer, so I suppose that's where my value of my womanhood comes from. Anything related to romance and sex? I don't relate to myself as an attractive and sexual being anymore, so in that respect I don't feel like a woman. It's been so long since I felt wanted and desired that I think that part of me has been lost, especially now I see the effects of aging.
Aging makes me see myself as a caricature of my former self, so I try to accept myself as a person, and try to accept the fact that I'm no longer a desirable woman. It hurts, but it's something I have to learn to accept, but it does feel like another loss.
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