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Post by beguiledcinderella on Jul 3, 2016 10:39:47 GMT -5
In general I agree with your premise that a spouse who is unhappy with the status quo is more likely to exchange. It also makes a difference what their version of the status quo is and why the status quo is being disrupted. My wife was pretty content with our marriage as long as I was engaged with her and our marriage, didn't give her too much crap about the lack of sex but just enough to let her know that I still found her desireable, and tried to support her emotional needs while ignoring my own. Basically, as long as I was a good little boy and kept my mouth shut about sex and behaved properly it was all good. Now that I'm not so much engaged with her and and pretty much indifferent to her and don't bug her about sex at all or beg for any emotional scraps from her she's suddenly not so happy. Mind you, not unhappy enough to do anything to address my needs. She's unhappy that I will no longer accept the status quo. In her mind that's all on me. She doesn't need to change. I do. This is so well put! And almost exactly my situation as well. Since I stopped having any f@cks to give (literally and figuratively) I'm definitely the bad guy I'm "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". "Ignoring everything that was great about our relationship because one thing wasn't perfect". "Ruining what was left between us" I've withdrawn from any possibility of sex. I'm his partner, I will go to bat for him, I help him tirelessly and support his goals. But I've become the "friend" I always actually was in the previous years. I just wrestled with that fact for a decade. I don't act in the least like a romantic partner and I don't chase him or pine after him. I live in the real world these days This means I go to bed when I'm tired. I get up when I want to or need to. If I don't feel like doing something with him I politely decline. I sleep in pajama pants and t shirts (the days of lingerie every night are gone- along with the endless hopeful body grooming). I peck him good morning or goodnight or goodbye with a bright friendly smile. If I want something from him I ask bluntly and directly, as if he were a business partner. In short, I've adopted his very own behavior patterns for the most part. I wear what is comfortable and/or what *i* want to wear. The days of carefully dressing in his favorite clothing and having my hair the way he likes it and makeup every day -- also gone. I also sit on another piece of furniture to watch tv. I don't cuddle, caress, snuggle... There is no teasing, and certainly no double entendre. He hates it. HATES it He asked me some time back if maybe we could go back to having sex sometimes. I told him I was very sorry-- but that ship sailed. And not without warning. He occasionally launches into how he deserves the way I treat him now. But how sad it makes him that I've thrown it all away. Ok. Whatever makes you feel better. It wasn't me doing the throwing, dude. |
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Post by beguiledcinderella on Jul 3, 2016 10:42:01 GMT -5
If your spouse is also very unhappy with the status quo, you have a shot. If your spouse is fine with the status quo, you don't. Fine doesn't mean happy, fine means "it's good enough." At least if they're also frustrated and unhappy, there's a chance that they might work on it. But if they're basically fine with the level of intimacy and sex, you can forget them compromising or doing any work to make YOU happy. In my situation, my wife is definitely fine with the status quo when it comes to sex but not other aspects of our relationship. Recognizing and accepting the interconnections between the various aspects of the relationship may lead to the same effect: motivation to work on the whole may translate to motivation to work on the part that's not working for me (inadequate sexual intimacy) in conjunction with the part that's not working for her (she doesn't feel sufficiently treasured and respected (or feels resented)). The interconnection forms a vicious circle. For me, increasing sexual desire (and action) from her would naturally result in increase of the feelings (and actions) from me that she wants. But I don't think the other side of the equation is the same. While increase from me might lead her to be more *willing* sexually, it doesn't seem to naturally increase her *desire*. (Maybe I just haven't tried hard enough yet. Right, that must be it.) Mm hmm I'll bet that's it. *heavy sarcasm* |
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Post by olofat on Jul 3, 2016 11:08:44 GMT -5
... But how sad it makes him that I've thrown it all away. Wow! It's on you. He's an innocent victim. I have not one milligram of sympathy for him. But it's sad that you have only a friend/roommate relationship in your life. I hope this is just a temporary situation before an eventual exit and the opportunity to enter into a new, real relationship. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 23:51:09 GMT -5
In general I agree with your premise that a spouse who is unhappy with the status quo is more likely to exchange. It also makes a difference what their version of the status quo is and why the status quo is being disrupted. My wife was pretty content with our marriage as long as I was engaged with her and our marriage, didn't give her too much crap about the lack of sex but just enough to let her know that I still found her desireable, and tried to support her emotional needs while ignoring my own. This is so well put! And almost exactly my situation as well. Since I stopped having any f@cks to give (literally and figuratively) I'm definitely the bad guy I'm "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". "Ignoring everything that was great about our relationship because one thing wasn't perfect". "Ruining what was left between us" ..... He hates it. HATES it .......how sad it makes him that I've thrown it all away. Ok. Whatever makes you feel better. It wasn't me doing the throwing, dude. This makes me feel better. Because my ex never did let go of the idea that I was "ignoring everything that was great about our relationship because one thing wasn't perfect." And we get that message reinforced all the time: "Sex is only one small part of a marriage," etc. Honestly - how many times do we hear that? And from how many different sources? So for a long time, I felt guilty for making such a big deal about such a "small" thing. And I know that my ex still does not understand. He still probably thinks I was being selfish and unreasonable. At the very least, he probably thinks I'm just weird, and a normal woman wouldn't have gotten so upset about the lack of sex and "let that one thing ruin everything." Two things are helping me to put that guilt away: 1) other people who have had this experience - thank you, beguiledcinderella. And, 2) my recent realization of just how much he was shutting me out emotionally as well. |
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Post by baza on Jul 4, 2016 2:45:39 GMT -5
nyartgal Quoting you here - "If your spouse is also very unhappy with the status quo, you have a shot". - That might need to be focused in a bit, maybe to read - "If your spouse is also very unhappy with the same issues as you, you have a shot". - See, you might be really pissed about the lack of sex. But he might be pissed about the lack of cash you are bringing in to subsidise his indolent lifestyle, and couldn't give a shit about the sex. - You might be pissed about his lack of emotional engagement with you. But he might be pissed off about how much time you spend at work, and couldn't give a fuck about the emotional engagement issue. - You might be pissed off about him failing to lodge the tax. But he might be pissed about you wasting money on a new beaut hairdo, and doesn't care at all about the tax issue. - What I'm getting at is that if you are both pissed off about the same thing(s), then sure, you might have a shot. But if you are both pissed off about different things, you probably haven't got a shot. - If you are both pissed off about the same thing(s) then your resources, and his resources can be both focused on the common problem. Good chance of a resolvement under such conditions. (I'd bet you are finding this to be so in your new relationship with Senor Sexy) - On the other hand if you are pissed off, but about different things, then there will be no concentration of individual resources onto a common problem. Rather, there will just be fragmented individual efforts on the things that concern each individual, no support or effort from the other spouse, no interest in the other spouses concerns, and thus, no shot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 11:52:31 GMT -5
This is so well put! And almost exactly my situation as well. Since I stopped having any f@cks to give (literally and figuratively) I'm definitely the bad guy I'm "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". "Ignoring everything that was great about our relationship because one thing wasn't perfect". "Ruining what was left between us" ..... He hates it. HATES it .......how sad it makes him that I've thrown it all away. Ok. Whatever makes you feel better. It wasn't me doing the throwing, dude. This makes me feel better. Because my ex never did let go of the idea that I was "ignoring everything that was great about our relationship because one thing wasn't perfect." And we get that message reinforced all the time: "Sex is only one small part of a marriage," etc. Honestly - how many times do we hear that? And from how many different sources? So for a long time, I felt guilty for making such a big deal about such a "small" thing. And I know that my ex still does not understand. He still probably thinks I was being selfish and unreasonable. At the very least, he probably thinks I'm just weird, and a normal woman wouldn't have gotten so upset about the lack of sex and "let that one thing ruin everything." Two things are helping me to put that guilt away: 1) other people who have had this experience - thank you, beguiledcinderella. And, 2) my recent realization of just how much he was shutting me out emotionally as well. It's funny how allegedly sex is such a small thing. So the next time someone tells you sex is only a small part of a marriage, ask why having sex outside the marriage is such a big deal then, since it's only a little thing. Really we shouldn't throw away all that is good about a relationship because of this insignificant thing I did (sex outside the relationship). Hmm, I bet suddenly it becomes big thing. Ask them to explain the difference!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 21:49:29 GMT -5
It's funny how allegedly sex is such a small thing. So the next time someone tells you sex is only a small part of a marriage, ask why having sex outside the marriage is such a big deal then, since it's only a little thing. Really we shouldn't throw away all that is good about a relationship because of this insignificant thing I did (sex outside the relationship). Hmm, I bet suddenly it becomes big thing. Ask them to explain the difference!! This logic. My wife once told me "Marriage isn't all about sex!". These arguments used to cow and embarrass me. Maybe I was immature. But then I thought about it: Is she telling me that sex isn't for marriage? Does she think it was only for before marriage? Does this mean that married folk can't have sex any more? Or just not with each other? It makes me wonder what she does think. |
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Post by baza on Jul 4, 2016 22:19:59 GMT -5
I can see some logic in "sex being only a small part of a marriage" - if you take it in the context of there being 24 hours in a day, work taking up 8 of those hours (33%) and sleep another 8 hours (33%) and "leisure" another 8 hours (33%).
If it takes you half an hour to have a root, you are asking for your spouse to devote 30 minutes of their 480 minutes of "leisure" time to indulge in this activity. That's roughly 6% of their leisure time (or about 2% of their 1,440 minutes in a day)
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I am pretty sure there would be a consensus that devoting 2% of your day to marital sex is not a hugely onerous task.
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But these refusive spouses ain't prepared to devote ANY time to this aspect of their union.
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Whereas they may "say" that "sex is only a small part of the marriage", their actions quite clearly say - "sex is not part of this marriage at all".
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Post by unmatched on Jul 5, 2016 11:51:25 GMT -5
For me this goes right along with 'sex is not that important'. This is one of the biggest refuser lies ever. If they really didn't care one way or the other they would be happy to do it if only to enjoy how happy and loved it makes you feel. But the truth is it is absolutely important to them to NOT have to get too close or intimate with you. And that, in a marriage, is a big deal.
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 6, 2016 8:04:06 GMT -5
For me this goes right along with 'sex is not that important'. This is one of the biggest refuser lies ever. If they really didn't care one way or the other they would be happy to do it if only to enjoy how happy and loved it makes you feel. But the truth is it is absolutely important to them to NOT have to get too close or intimate with you. And that, in a marriage, is a big deal. The one session of marriage counseling we went to the counselor asked him Why don't you want to have sex? All I could think of was Geez lady the " "Why?" doesn't matter but I stayed quiet and listened. My husband said, "sex just wasn't important to me". Translation - I wasn't important to him. And yes it's a lie! It's not the real reason. It's a cop out avoid the question type of answer. Nothing with meat or substance. Real answers have specific details. That's the answer a child would give. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 6, 2016 8:50:20 GMT -5
For me this goes right along with 'sex is not that important'. This is one of the biggest refuser lies ever. If they really didn't care one way or the other they would be happy to do it if only to enjoy how happy and loved it makes you feel. But the truth is it is absolutely important to them to NOT have to get too close or intimate with you. And that, in a marriage, is a big deal. The one session of marriage counseling we went to the counselor asked him Why don't you want to have sex? All I could think of was Geez lady the " "Why?" doesn't matter but I stayed quiet and listened. My husband said, "sex just wasn't important to me". Translation - I wasn't important to him. And yes it's a lie! It's not the real reason. It's a cop out avoid the question type of answer. Nothing with meat or substance. Real answers have specific details. That's the answer a child would give. What our spouses say/said by answering that way is, " I will be giving zero percent to try and fix this marriage. All the blame is on them , I carry non of it. All I care about is myself". What my spouse did say was important is, " her detachment from over two years ago". That's what's important to her. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 6, 2016 8:53:29 GMT -5
The one session of marriage counseling we went to the counselor asked him Why don't you want to have sex? All I could think of was Geez lady the " "Why?" doesn't matter but I stayed quiet and listened. My husband said, "sex just wasn't important to me". Translation - I wasn't important to him. And yes it's a lie! It's not the real reason. It's a cop out avoid the question type of answer. Nothing with meat or substance. Real answers have specific details. That's the answer a child would give. What our spouses say/said by answering that way is, " I will be giving zero percent to try and fix this marriage. All the blame is on them , I carry non of it. All I care about is myself". What my spouse did say was important is, " her detachment from over two years ago". That's what's important to her. Well for them there's nothing to fix. It works for them. They are happy and that's all that matters. |
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