m76
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Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Feb 27, 2024 5:40:51 GMT -5
I know it's time to leave after 3 months of counciling it doesn't seem like she's making any effort and I'm still miserable.
However I'm having a hard time taking that last step. It just never seems to be the right time. Last night she was sick, during the day she's always on conference calls, or my son is around etc...
Those that left how did you do it?
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 27, 2024 6:54:12 GMT -5
However you do it, such a declaration could trigger unpleasant reactions from a refuser, not excluding fling for divorce themselves. Make sure you consult with a lawyer before you actually do this, as well as ensure you have a social network ready to support you if it's worse than you anticipate. Are you willing to be talked out of it? If so, what are the rock bottom requirements of behavior change you'll be ready to accept. These minimums should not be shared, but you can measure your willingness to stay by how much Mrs. m76 exceeds them. You may be inclined to warn her and yourself about "hysterical bonding" which can move mountains but dies down to the same swamp you've had, absent diligence. If you don't want to be talked out of it, mrslowmaintenance linked to a post on deadbedrooms subreddit that is a very thorough list of the attempted defenses LL (low libido) spouses may attempt to counter with: iliasm.org/thread/3353/preparing-talk?page=1If this is the case, bballgirl had a post about her declaration I found to be bereft of nonsense. She was on a mission. It was powerful to me. I'll try to dig it up. This may or may not have been it, but may have some worthwhile material with which to compose something suitable: iliasm.org/thread/2273/stayed?page=1 |
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 27, 2024 9:50:38 GMT -5
Not that you must, but have you had a “divorce is imminent” discussion? Does she realize how close to the cliff’s edge she is playing?
This can have a couple outcomes… attitude change / diving catch, or defensive hostility. So, be prepared for both.
If you’ve crossed your breaking point, I’d say the discussion is not “I’m going to” but rather “I’ve filed. You can go pickup papers at my lawyer, or I can have you served.”
If necessary, tell her the two of you need to talk mid-day and she needs to find the time. If she really won’t make time for you, then plop a copy of the filing on her keyboard and see if she’ll make time in her calendar then. (That doesn’t count as official notice, BTW.)
Among the things to consider… no significant changes to finances are allowed after filing. So, for example, if you want to control your paycheck you need to go open an individual bank account and change your payroll deposit first. There are pre-filing checklists you might want to peruse first.
DC
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Feb 27, 2024 9:56:41 GMT -5
Not that you must, but have you had a “divorce is imminent” discussion? Does she realize how close to the cliff’s edge she is playing? This can have a couple outcomes… attitude change / diving catch, or defensive hostility. So, be prepared for both. If you’ve crossed your breaking point, I’d say the discussion is not “I’m going to” but rather “I’ve filed. You can go pickup papers at my lawyer, or I can have you served.” If necessary, tell her the two of you need to talk mid-day and she needs to find the time. If she really won’t make time for you, then plop a copy of the filing on her keyboard and see if she’ll make time in her calendar then. (That doesn’t count as official notice, BTW.) Among the things to consider… no significant changes to finances are allowed after filing. So, for example, if you want to control your paycheck you need to go open an individual bank account and change your payroll deposit first. There are pre-filing checklists you might want to peruse first. DC It's going to be the divorce is imminent talk. For now we're still friends and we'll talk about it before I put the papers on her desk. I'm just procrastinating at this point. |
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Post by toughtiger on Feb 27, 2024 10:06:21 GMT -5
Not that you must, but have you had a “divorce is imminent” discussion? Does she realize how close to the cliff’s edge she is playing? This can have a couple outcomes… attitude change / diving catch, or defensive hostility. So, be prepared for both. If you’ve crossed your breaking point, I’d say the discussion is not “I’m going to” but rather “I’ve filed. You can go pickup papers at my lawyer, or I can have you served.” If necessary, tell her the two of you need to talk mid-day and she needs to find the time. If she really won’t make time for you, then plop a copy of the filing on her keyboard and see if she’ll make time in her calendar then. (That doesn’t count as official notice, BTW.) Among the things to consider… no significant changes to finances are allowed after filing. So, for example, if you want to control your paycheck you need to go open an individual bank account and change your payroll deposit first. There are pre-filing checklists you might want to peruse first. DC It's going to be the divorce is imminent talk. For now we're still friends and we'll talk about it before I put the papers on her desk. I'm just procrastinating at this point. I think you are NOT the only one that procrastinates ... we want to believe it can be fixed ... want to believe our life / our marriage was good to a point.... the years not wasted the kid(s) will understand etc. i am questioning everything ......if i made a mistake when we met .... if i did not have those feelings .....i KNEW were real at one point ..... how can that die and be no longer there ......where i used to be excited he was home .....to wanting there to be traffic and delay him now.... why me .. do i want to start over and where ... if i move i will need to let go of job friends here what is next.... telling someone or even filing makes it feel like a stop watch started. making it real is scary for some ... me included. |
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 27, 2024 10:09:35 GMT -5
It's going to be the divorce is imminent talk. For now we're still friends and we'll talk about it before I put the papers on her desk. I'm just procrastinating at this point. Then I’d say the theme should be “We’re not making any meaningful progress, and I can’t continue the way we are. If things don’t change significantly (not tiny progress) then we need to start talking about divorce.” Ultimately, one theme is to not take the “you’re an awful person” blaming approach, but instead “I can’t stay married to you”. It’s not a position she can argue with. DC |
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Post by aquacat on Feb 27, 2024 10:38:48 GMT -5
I understand where you are coming from as I feel like I'm in the same situation. I love my wife but I don't feel like I'm in love like I was at one point. The resentment of years of different views on sex and intimacy are getting to be just too much for me.
Is there any way you can maybe take her to lunch somewhere private and have that discussion with her? Or maybe have it in the evening once she feels better?
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Feb 27, 2024 10:52:40 GMT -5
I understand where you are coming from as I feel like I'm in the same situation. I love my wife but I don't feel like I'm in love like I was at one point. The resentment of years of different views on sex and intimacy are getting to be just too much for me. Is there any way you can maybe take her to lunch somewhere private and have that discussion with her? Or maybe have it in the evening once she feels better? Maybe it comes up in our next therapy session when we have to explain how we haven't made any progress on her "homework". |
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Post by aquacat on Feb 27, 2024 10:56:04 GMT -5
I understand where you are coming from as I feel like I'm in the same situation. I love my wife but I don't feel like I'm in love like I was at one point. The resentment of years of different views on sex and intimacy are getting to be just too much for me. Is there any way you can maybe take her to lunch somewhere private and have that discussion with her? Or maybe have it in the evening once she feels better? Maybe it comes up in our next therapy session when we have to explain how we haven't made any progress on her "homework". That's a good idea doing that with the therapist there. Maybe the therapist will be able to shed some importance on this. |
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Post by deadzone75 on Feb 27, 2024 11:46:29 GMT -5
I understand where you are coming from as I feel like I'm in the same situation. I love my wife but I don't feel like I'm in love like I was at one point. The resentment of years of different views on sex and intimacy are getting to be just too much for me. Is there any way you can maybe take her to lunch somewhere private and have that discussion with her? Or maybe have it in the evening once she feels better? Maybe it comes up in our next therapy session when we have to explain how we haven't made any progress on her "homework". I read an earlier post of yours where you stated you were about to cancel your remaining sessions. This is one way to let her know you are done. It won't matter one way or another when you drop the news; there will never be a convenient time to have that discussion, just like there is never a convenient time for her to touch you. If you choose to continue down the spiral of counseling, DO NOT mention this to the therapist. They want that cash flow, and they sure as hell aren't going to throw in the towel on your behalf and say, "yup, she's not shagging you, dude". Instead, they will double-down and you'll get "homework" that will aim to have her actually touch your penis with one finger!!!! in 2025. I get it; I procrastinated so long, my X ended things before I could. If you have the means right now, do it right now. |
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Post by isthisit on Feb 27, 2024 12:11:48 GMT -5
This is always exceptionally hard and a seminal moment in your life, your wife’s life and that of any children too, so it’s fine to feel trepidation about it.
You asked how I did it. Firstly I did not go near that conversation before I was absolutely sure that it was what I wanted and I would see it through, no matter what. I did not want to put H or myself through that without reason. Then I chose a time of day when we were alone, and predictably so, for a few hours to mange the aftermath with privacy to protect both us and the children coming home from school.
I thought about what I wanted and what I didn’t want. I didn’t want to hurt him any more than necessary, I wanted to be clear about what I wanted and prepared words to say to communicate this. I was not willing to enter into a negotiation, and I wanted to be clear I was not asking for anything- I didn’t need his permission. I also wanted to be kind, and I wanted to avoid any kind of blame. I also wanted to avoid any apologising for my choice, I was not to blame either.
In my situation H was avoidant and tuned out any unwanted conversation about how close to the end of my tether I was, so I was sure he would be shocked to the core despite my efforts to clue him up.
I borrowed skills from another part of my life and quietly told him that I had some news that was going to be very unwelcome. “I am afraid I cannot be your wife anymore.” Not don’t want to, I’m leaving or I’ve had enough etc. These convey a choice and by then I really didn’t feel like I had a choice. I had to stop being his wife for my sanity. This was unambiguous, didn’t invite a debate and was not any form of defence or justification.
Simply, I just can’t.
That certainly got his attention. He knew me well enough to know that was final. He tried to negotiate, demanding an explanation and such, but I stuck to my line. Being in this marriage makes me exceptionally unhappy and I can’t do it any more, I am sorry it has come to this. He promised all kinds of changes and I stuck to my line, it’s too late, I can’t be your wife. It went reasonably okay after that. I hope that’s helpful.
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 27, 2024 18:45:20 GMT -5
It's going to be the divorce is imminent talk. For now we're still friends and we'll talk about it before I put the papers on her desk. I'm just procrastinating at this point. I think you are NOT the only one that procrastinates ... we want to believe it can be fixed ... want to believe our life / our marriage was good to a point.... the years not wasted the kid(s) will understand etc. i am questioning everything ......if i made a mistake when we met .... if i did not have those feelings .....i KNEW were real at one point ..... how can that die and be no longer there ......where i used to be excited he was home .....to wanting there to be traffic and delay him now.... why me .. do i want to start over and where ... if i move i will need to let go of job friends here what is next.... telling someone or even filing makes it feel like a stop watch started. making it real is scary for some ... me included. I frequently hear it's not necessarily god to have multiple big changes happen at once. You'd want to stay with your job and friends for stability when the marriage has rocked your life. Conventional wisdom. Not sure how true. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 27, 2024 18:52:04 GMT -5
Not that you must, but have you had a “divorce is imminent” discussion? Does she realize how close to the cliff’s edge she is playing? This can have a couple outcomes… attitude change / diving catch, or defensive hostility. So, be prepared for both. If you’ve crossed your breaking point, I’d say the discussion is not “I’m going to” but rather “I’ve filed. You can go pickup papers at my lawyer, or I can have you served.” If necessary, tell her the two of you need to talk mid-day and she needs to find the time. If she really won’t make time for you, then plop a copy of the filing on her keyboard and see if she’ll make time in her calendar then. (That doesn’t count as official notice, BTW.) Among the things to consider… no significant changes to finances are allowed after filing. So, for example, if you want to control your paycheck you need to go open an individual bank account and change your payroll deposit first. There are pre-filing checklists you might want to peruse first. DC It's going to be the divorce is imminent talk. For now we're still friends and we'll talk about it before I put the papers on her desk. I'm just procrastinating at this point. I was under the impression you were past the point of offering her conditions for avoiding disaster. I know I mentioned this page already, is it not potentially useful for constructing your hail Mary? iliasm.org/thread/5780/build-own-talk |
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Feb 28, 2024 8:52:11 GMT -5
It's going to be the divorce is imminent talk. For now we're still friends and we'll talk about it before I put the papers on her desk. I'm just procrastinating at this point. I was under the impression you were past the point of offering her conditions for avoiding disaster. I know I mentioned this page already, is it not potentially useful for constructing your hail Mary? iliasm.org/thread/5780/build-own-talkI nearly 100% sure I'm past the point of no return but the conversation will happen before actually serving papers so feels more like a divorce is imminent then happening. Last night I talked about how disappointed I was when she canceled our date last week to scroll on her phone. She just said she was tired but got her second wind after I went to sleep. *wtf Now I'm running into the cost of procrastinating.. This morning my wife started talking about going on a romantic trip to Irleand for our 25th anniversary. I have zero interest in doing this trip with our intimacy the way it currently is. It seems like despite everything we've talked about she still thinks everything is fine with us. I'll look at the crafting the talk post today, because I think that conversation needs to happen sooner then later. |
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Post by aquacat on Feb 28, 2024 9:25:01 GMT -5
I was under the impression you were past the point of offering her conditions for avoiding disaster. I know I mentioned this page already, is it not potentially useful for constructing your hail Mary? iliasm.org/thread/5780/build-own-talkI nearly 100% sure I'm past the point of no return but the conversation will happen before actually serving papers so feels more like a divorce is imminent then happening. Last night I talked about how disappointed I was when she canceled our date last week to scroll on her phone. She just said she was tired but got her second wind after I went to sleep. *wtf Now I'm running into the cost of procrastinating.. This morning my wife started talking about going on a romantic trip to Irleand for our 25th anniversary. I have zero interest in doing this trip with our intimacy the way it currently is. It seems like despite everything we've talked about she still thinks everything is fine with us. I'll look at the crafting the talk post today, because I think that conversation needs to happen sooner then later. What is it with spouses and scrolling on their phones? My wife does this constantly and yes even before bedtime when she supposedly is "too tired" for sex. Last night she scrolled on her phone for several hours but was "too tired" for intimacy. Good luck when you go to tell her. I am curious if she even knows the discussion is coming since she is talking about taking a trip? |
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