|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Jul 17, 2023 5:51:39 GMT -5
...He recently said he was coming but his wife wanted to come with him... Your lover is coming to town, but his wife wants to join. You say she knows about you. She knows it is your town. Does she want to meet you? I've had a paramour, and he's as good a friend as my ex-fiancée is. I was the best man at his wedding and he was an usher at mine. (Neither of us marrying our girlfriend, but I did go to her wedding.) The whole paramour part of poly is a part of the relationship most people don't even realize can be so very life enhancing. Your tone made it sound like...uh oh, the wife will find out about us! That doesn't sound like your setup. You sound like you're thinking like a monogamist. Or I'm assuming things I shouldn't. (if this hijacks the thread, we can start fresh elsewhere. Apologies in advance) |
|
|
|
Post by jim44444 on Jul 17, 2023 17:32:42 GMT -5
jerri, What is a " kissing hands on dating relationship"? I have not heard that before. You made several good points in your post. It is frustrating to be considering a new lover when we are well aware that our partner knows how to satisfy us. It is also frustrating when our partners have health issues that 'prevent' them from having sex (with us) but the rest of their life goes on with adjustments. Some might claim that you are lucky to have found a solution to your SM but I would say that you made the luck through hard work. I would disagree though with assumption that men have a harder time finding sex online. I see this in other forums and consistently women tell the men to quit being lazy. Too often men approach online dating like shopping on Amazon, put in wish list, select options, get next day delivery. And yet the women keep telling us that the message "UR hawt! Let's fuck. Here is pic of my dic" does not work. Treat women online like you would treat them at a church picnic and the chances of getting laid go way up. Ok my rambling is over.
|
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Jul 28, 2023 1:52:31 GMT -5
...He recently said he was coming but his wife wanted to come with him... Your lover is coming to town, but his wife wants to join. You say she knows about you. She knows it is your town. Does she want to meet you? I've had a paramour, and he's as good a friend as my ex-fiancée is. I was the best man at his wedding and he was an usher at mine. (Neither of us marrying our girlfriend, but I did go to her wedding.) The whole paramour part of poly is a part of the relationship most people don't even realize can be so very life enhancing. Your tone made it sound like...uh oh, the wife will find out about us! That doesn't sound like your setup. You sound like you're thinking like a monogamist. Or I'm assuming things I shouldn't. (if this hijacks the thread, we can start fresh elsewhere. Apologies in advance) She is like my husband and only tolerated her husband shagging someone else. She is very jealous and I understand. She's the one who told him to go get it elsewhere and leave her alone because she just didn't think about sex and was no longer interested. But then when he said he would do it she got really upset! She found his burn phone and hit the ceiling! She was so pissed and then started crying but wouldn't hand over sex. She actually doesn't know what city I'm in and thinks her husband stopped after she started protesting. He says she just doesn't want it thrown in her face. He started hiding everything. I told him to find someone to shag in that small town and he said it would be very hard. I think it's easier than people make it out to be. In reality, she's been very good to him considering. We both make sure that we have put our spouses in the number one position at all times and it has seemed to work out. They don't get everything they want but then again we weren't getting what we wanted so they had to put up with our shenanigans unfortunately. I don't at all feel guilty for what I did but I used to carry a lot of fear and anxiety but the guilt was really easy to set aside because I tried really hard to get my sweet lovin' from my spouse. |
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Jul 28, 2023 2:57:46 GMT -5
jerri, What is a " kissing hands on dating relationship"? I have not heard that before. You made several good points in your post. It is frustrating to be considering a new lover when we are well aware that our partner knows how to satisfy us. It is also frustrating when our partners have health issues that 'prevent' them from having sex (with us) but the rest of their life goes on with adjustments. Some might claim that you are lucky to have found a solution to your SM but I would say that you made the luck through hard work. I would disagree though with assumption that men have a harder time finding sex online. I see this in other forums and consistently women tell the men to quit being lazy. Too often men approach online dating like shopping on Amazon, put in wish list, select options, get next day delivery. And yet the women keep telling us that the message "UR hawt! Let's fuck. Here is pic of my dic" does not work. Treat women online like you would treat them at a church picnic and the chances of getting laid go way up. Ok my rambling is over. ". In another group there's a man who just has a kissing, hands on- dating relationship without sex and although that would not be my choice it works for him as a replacement." He actually hires this woman to lay with him and they grope each other and kiss but sex is off the table. He loves to cuddle, grope, kiss and go to dinner. He basically hires her by the night to have a date and have the boyfriend experience. He also goes to a spa to get a massage and a happy ending. I apologize Jim, I should have put some punctuation in there. You are very correct. A lot of people don't like those things. It doesn't seem to really bother me if they send a picture. Most don't really do that though. If they have to pay to write a message usually they just copy and paste something that they have that has already been canned and set aside. I just think men have a lot of competition. Plus they pay for the site, they pay for the date, and they pay for the hotel and some of those women can be very demanding. One lady was holding an empty paper towel core and she wrote my guy and told him that that's what his girth had to be. At the time I was trying to get my guy a threesome. Plus I thought it would be nice for someone to take up the slack when I couldn't come over. I thought it would be a fun gift and experience that he would never forget. |
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Jul 28, 2023 3:10:44 GMT -5
I thank you all for the replies and advice. All very on point. Yes, it is me holding me back, the thing is, I don't really want anyone else, I want a warm, loving, sensual marriage. Maybe I am just too stubborn. Yes, when/if she passes, I would definitely entertain a new relationship. She has suggested I 'get my needs met elsewhere', but it would just not be the same, that is just sex for sex's sake (for fucks sake? lol). While it may be enjoyable, it would be, for me, ultimately unsatisfying. What about a massage with a happy ending? Someone touching me was so important! What about an ad for a boyfriend experience? Dancing lessons? Line dancing? Book group? Movie group? Salsa dancing? Foodie group? Anything that could possibly get you away from the house? |
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Jul 28, 2023 7:00:01 GMT -5
She is like my husband and only tolerated her husband shagging someone else.... She's the one who told him to go get it elsewhere and leave her alone...when he said he would do it she got really upset! She found his burn phone and hit the ceiling! She was so pissed and then started crying but wouldn't hand over sex. She actually doesn't know what city I'm in and thinks her husband stopped after she started protesting.... He started hiding everything. I told him to find someone to shag in that small town and he said it would be very hard. I think it's easier than people make it out to be... OK. I don't recall you mentioning the hissy fit and transition from informed non-monogamy to secret non-monogamy/"cheating". Bummer. Why are you under the impression finding a FWB is easier than people think? You may be right about women, but guys, I hear, it can be very difficult. Some ILIASM folk have suggested their own standards get in their way, so maybe that's what you're referring to. Others lack social interaction skills/rapport/"game" (classy flirting, subtle focus on sexuality/sensuality) Even your lover who is already successful seems to find it challenging. |
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Jul 29, 2023 1:04:55 GMT -5
She is like my husband and only tolerated her husband shagging someone else.... She's the one who told him to go get it elsewhere and leave her alone...when he said he would do it she got really upset! She found his burn phone and hit the ceiling! She was so pissed and then started crying but wouldn't hand over sex. She actually doesn't know what city I'm in and thinks her husband stopped after she started protesting.... He started hiding everything. I told him to find someone to shag in that small town and he said it would be very hard. I think it's easier than people make it out to be... OK. I don't recall you mentioning the hissy fit and transition form informed non-monogamy to secret non-monogamy/"cheating". Bummer. Why are you under the impression finding a FWB is easier than people think? You may be right about women, but guys, I hear, it can be very difficult. Some ILIASM folk have suggested their own standards get in their way, so maybe that's what you're referring to. Others lack social interaction skills/rapport/"game" (classy flirting, subtle focus on sexuality/sensuality) Even your lover who is already successful seems to find it challenging. Jim disagreed with me when I said it was harder for men. Maybe he is correct he brings up some good points. There's just not a lot of hoops that us women have to jump through that men do- in my opinion. They make it so men have to pay for everything on some sites. Women get hundreds of emails within the first several hours of showing up new on a site. My partner said it was not the same for men. It was hard at times to weed out the pen pals and someone who wanted an emotional relationship who was possibly lonely. There are only a small percentage of people who actually will accept polyamorous and be happy/loving about it. There are some really good books when people run into challenges of jealousy. If someone marries us and then cheats us out of sex I really don't think it's cheating if we let them know you are going to get sex outside of the marriage. I think it was much easier for us than our partners because we knew we were not leaving the marriage but they had no clue if we were leaving or not and that must have been very unsettling for them so I understand their resistant behavior. |
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 2, 2023 16:52:54 GMT -5
Oops.
Yes, that came across as accusatory.
Refusers think any extramaritally sex is cheating, informed or not. Justified or not.
Thus I refer to it also as "secret", which is not particularly judgmental.
And it's only secret for him.
Poor choice of words on my part.
The self-inflicted fear is unfortunate.
Dedication to my wife was my intention when I started dating. Happily, it never really got anywhere.
|
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 2, 2023 17:32:50 GMT -5
Jim disagreed with me when I said it was harder for men. Jim44444 is wrong, you are right. It is exponentally harder for a man to find a partner for sex or intimacy than it is for a woman. And the older a man gets the harder it gets. I just finished an article, published in Psychology Today, about a recent study on the frequency of sexual activity in older men and women. The study involved some 7500 men and an equal # of women. The conclusion of the researchers was that the older men (average age 65) want sex or intimacy at a rate roughly 4 times that of women(average age 65). The findings were published in 2021 and the study done in Europe. The article did not say where in Europe. Given my mostly unsuccessful forrays into dating sites where I sought a women in my age demographic, I can believe the study and its findings.I have been on 3 different dating sites, I have probably read 500-600 profiles from women my age this past year. Exactly 2 have used the word intimate or intimacy. Senior women are not looking for intimacy. They are primarily looking for a travel companion or a male to pick up the tab for their entertainment and meals. I probably sound bitter, but what I am is disappointed. I have gone to a lot of effort and trouble to make sure I can physically please any partner I might have, But it is looking more and more like my efforts are wasted. |
|
|
|
Post by catlover on Aug 3, 2023 9:19:47 GMT -5
You say "bitter", yes that sounds like the way I am going.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadzone75 on Aug 3, 2023 10:35:51 GMT -5
Jim disagreed with me when I said it was harder for men. Jim44444 is wrong, you are right. It is exponentally harder for a man to find a partner for sex or intimacy than it is for a woman. And the older a man gets the harder it gets. I just finished an article, published in Psychology Today, about a resent study on the frequency of sexual activity in older men and women. The study involved some 7500 men and an equal # of women. The conclusion of the researchers was that the older men (average age 65) want sex or intimacy at a rate roughly 4 times that of women(average age 65). The findings were published in 2021 and the study done in Europe. The article did not say where in Europe. Given my mostly unsuccessful forrays into dating sites where I sought a women in my age demographic, I can believe the study and its findings.I have been on 3 different dating sites, I have probably read 500-600 profiles from women my age this past year. Exactly 2 have used the word intimate or intimacy. Senior women are not looking for intimacy. They are primarily looking for a travel companion or a male to pick up the tab for their entertainment and meals. I probably sound bitter, but what I am is disappointed. I have gone to a lot of effort and trouble to make sure I can physically please any partner I might have, But it is looking more and more like my efforts are wasted. Any man who ever spent a few weekends of his youth at a club with his best friend can testify to that. Since the beginning of time, it has been harder for males to find sex. It's not even debatable. Now the QUALITY of that sex might be an issue for women... |
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 3, 2023 13:15:35 GMT -5
Any man who ever spent a few weekends of his youth at a club with his best friend can testify to that. Since the beginning of time, it has been harder for males to find sex. It's not even debatable. Now the QUALITY of that sex might be an issue for women... Ditto,....The same could be said for a males experience. There is much truth to Ol' Jerry Lee's song verse...."the girls all get prettier at closing time". |
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 13, 2023 1:37:11 GMT -5
Jim disagreed with me when I said it was harder for men. Jim44444 is wrong, you are right. It is exponentally harder for a man to find a partner for sex or intimacy than it is for a woman. And the older a man gets the harder it gets. I just finished an article, published in Psychology Today, about a recent study on the frequency of sexual activity in older men and women. The study involved some 7500 men and an equal # of women. The conclusion of the researchers was that the older men (average age 65) want sex or intimacy at a rate roughly 4 times that of women(average age 65). The findings were published in 2021 and the study done in Europe. The article did not say where in Europe. Given my mostly unsuccessful forrays into dating sites where I sought a women in my age demographic, I can believe the study and its findings.I have been on 3 different dating sites, I have probably read 500-600 profiles from women my age this past year. Exactly 2 have used the word intimate or intimacy. Senior women are not looking for intimacy. They are primarily looking for a travel companion or a male to pick up the tab for their entertainment and meals. I probably sound bitter, but what I am is disappointed. I have gone to a lot of effort and trouble to make sure I can physically please any partner I might have, But it is looking more and more like my efforts are wasted. That's really interesting about the Phycology Today article. My focus was on single men at first and I explained my situation in my profile. I think men were in my case looking for a dating experience as well. I didn't really want to get into dating, I was after a sexual experience. I found out very fast my friend appreciated sex but he was looking for conversation, food... I had some single men who just didn't understand I didn't want my marriage date night interrupted. Calling anytime ... My mentor told me to focus on married men instead. So my next focus was finding someone who had been married longer than 20 years. I found one who had been married 29 years and one 30. Men don't really have that luxury to be that selective. My mentor sad he had been through 12 women in 10 months. At that point I got really bummed out. He also said he mostly attracted women who wanted money or completely fake profiles. I only had to put up with people who wrote and said, "hi" My mentor told me to ignore those men and only write men who had read my profile. At first a lot of work went into it until I just focused on men who were interested in sex. My mentor said just drop them if they don't don't talk about sex within 3 dates. It became so much easier all the way around but I can see how it's really hard for a man because they have to deal with the ladies of the night and fake profiles just to keep them on the site. Then I found a man who I thought was perfect because we could have sex during business hours. But then he only wanted sex like once or twice a month and I thought no way can I handle that so that's when my mentor said add another. I wanted sex once a week. Right before I found the right man my mentor said to drop all my pen pals and get serious about sex before Christmas. So if us women have a hard time finding someone who's interested in sex on a regular basis I can only imagine that you guys have a hard time. One of my mentors lived in Chicago and he hung out in a forum that was for swingers and he was very successful because there were men who were handicapped but they wanted him to please their wife. So he found his little niche. He told me I should just go sign up at a swingers club as a single woman who wouldn't be bringing in a man and they would accept me but I didn't really think I needed to go that far although it sounded fun. At the same time, a single man could not get in the swingers club in my own city when I was reading their rules. And when I was reading their rules I noticed they were really pretty strict about getting tested and getting vetted before showing up to the club. |
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 13, 2023 5:11:56 GMT -5
jerri,.. I believe you are really the exception among women. As I stated I have been on 3 dating sites and have read at least 5-600 profiles, (probably closer to 1,000) from women about what they are looking for from a partner. Vertually all of them want someone to travel with them. Exactly 2 used the term intimacy and none, repeast none used the word sex, unless it was in a negative connitation. When I do get some positive replies and begin conversations I make it a point to work the conversation around to intimacy at some point. No sense wasting time for either of us if we are not fairly closely matched when it comes to how we view sex. If they have no interest in sex, I have no initerest in them. Since women in my age demographic are post menopausal that eliminates about 95% of them immediately.
I am frankly surprized that you have such a round about time finding partners for sex. I understand the need to be selective and i agree, but it disappoints me that my fellow males seem so wimpy when it comes to making love to a woman. Times have really changed the makeup of males it seems.
Your mentors are correct, if intimacy is your goal you should drop or avoid the males that are basically just looking for pen pals. I have the same headache with women. So many just want a platonic relationship.
I have pretty much concluded most females on dating sites are just there for the validation that they are still attractive. Many are looking for males to escort them to meals and some type of entertainment, picking up the tab for them. When this last venture runs out it is unlikely I will bother with another daing site. If I get really horney I will just rent a pro for a short time. For a few hundred I can have sex with a 20-30 yr old woman again. That certainly beats the pants off most interactions I have experienced at electronic dating on the internet.
|
|
|
|
Post by jerri on Aug 14, 2023 0:34:47 GMT -5
jerri,.. I believe you are really the exception among women. As I stated I have been on 3 dating sites and have read at least 5-600 profiles, (probably closer to 1,000) from women about what they are looking for from a partner. Vertually all of them want someone to travel with them. Exactly 2 used the term intimacy and none, repeast none used the word sex, unless it was in a negative connitation. When I do get some positive replies and begin conversations I make it a point to work the conversation around to intimacy at some point. No sense wasting time for either of us if we are not fairly closely matched when it comes to how we view sex. If they have no interest in sex, I have no initerest in them. Since women in my age demographic are post menopausal that eliminates about 95% of them immediately. I am frankly surprized that you have such a round about time finding partners for sex. I understand the need to be selective and i agree, but it disappoints me that my fellow males seem so wimpy when it comes to making love to a woman. Times have really changed the makeup of males it seems. Your mentors are correct, if intimacy is your goal you should drop or avoid the males that are basically just looking for pen pals. I have the same headache with women. So many just want a platonic relationship. I have pretty much concluded most females on dating sites are just there for the validation that they are still attractive. Many are looking for males to escort them to meals and some type of entertainment, picking up the tab for them. When this last venture runs out it is unlikely I will bother with another daing site. If I get really horney I will just rent a pro for a short time. For a few hundred I can have sex with a 20-30 yr old woman again. That certainly beats the pants off most interactions I have experienced at electronic dating on the internet. It's a lot of effort and that was exciting but it also pissed me off that my husband wouldn't even offer pity sex. I knew that if I started acting like my husband the marriage would be doomed. I was on another forum and they spoke about star fish sex where the woman or man would just lay dead arms and legs spread out and that was how they got sex. That was exactly what I wanted because I could at least pretend like I was somewhere else or with someone else if I really worked at it. I didn't even get starfish sex. He just wanted to masturbate prone face down firm, dry, mattress. I used Okcupid and Ashley Madison as my go-to site. My profile was wiped clean and they kicked my internet address off of Plenty of Fish. I used the married but looking options. There was a huge learning curve for me but it was good I had two mentors. I was on FetLife when I started and I got attacked bad by half of the people in the group who thought it was cheating and the other half were cheering me on. So it really depended on who was reading my profile and some people definitely had no tolerance for married but looking in any form. People just don't understand what it's like to be sexless. And I didn't go on any sites that charged me. Men just can't get away with that. They did have tests on OkCupid that would match you with others.. depending and that was really fun. It was kind of neat to be able to find someone who had the same interests although that was just the opposite of what I was looking for because they didn't have to match any type of personality trait because I wasn't looking for a mate. I just had to be aware of safety. FetLife would have been neat but they were just too judgemental. And I didn't want to weed out the judgmental people from the ones who were not. I thought it would be neat to go to some of the dungeon kink parties for potluck but I really didn't have to after all. Plus it's a backup both of my mentor said I could travel to them if I wanted to. And one of them would come to my city. Any chance you can hook up with a FetLife group in your city? I was impressed with the ones in the group who would go hire women. I had a million questions for them! I thought it was the perfect alternative especially because you just don't waste the time on dating sites. I found myself wanting to see different aspects of my husband in the boyfriend. I had to get that out of my head right away because I knew I was still longing for my husband. I even hoped that his member would be the same but it really wasn't. I got really lucky that the people I came in contact were adventurous for the most part they were enthusiastic and that was a sweet relief. I also was under the impression that I was terrible in the bedroom and I really didn't know what kind of skills I had. I just had to think back to previous relationships and they didn't seem to complain and that's all I held on to. I was so scared I had to get my confidence back. And I'm glad I did. I thought I wasn't tight enough so I went through this ninja tightening course. 😂 This lady holds up her surfing board by her lady bits. I kid you not she does have Ninja strength down there. So here I was with these Jade eggs that were tiny trying to hold up water bottles or lotion bottles on a string by my pelvic wall. Swinging them back and forth for strength. It's really amazing how damaged we become in a sexless marriage. I really thought it was all my fault and I just needed to find a way to fix it. I wanted to be a complete different body type. |
|
