carpy
New Member
Posts: 19
|
Post by carpy on Jul 21, 2023 10:42:50 GMT -5
As Sister northstarmom says, taking a position of counter refusing is NOT to - "get your refuser to change or notice" Rather, it is to put you back in control of your end of the situation. To make the choice that if there is to be no sex in your situation that it is YOUR choice that it be so. It is a subtle difference in thinking but if you make that choice, you move from 'victim' in the situation to 'owner' of the situation. Thanks for this feedback Baza. I agree the counter refusal is a subtle but powerful change that puts the ownership of the issue back in my hands. Upon thinking more about it, I guess I am just done putting in anymore effort into this, and sometimes playing a strategy of counter refusal - although empowering feels like more misspent energy that I could be focusing on doing things for myself..... I am a recovering nice guy so all this is new terrain for me |
|
carpy
New Member
Posts: 19
|
Post by carpy on Jul 21, 2023 11:14:15 GMT -5
... The thing is, I have long since accepted that rejection is inevitable, it's just that since circumstances have me choosing to stay, and outsourcing is off the table, this is the only human I am legally permitted to touch right now and I am not ready to give up the pleasure of touching someone just to take a stand that will likely go un noticed anyway. I skimmed through your old threads and did not see anywhere the reason why "outsourcing is off the table". Adultery is only illegal in 16 states, so "legal" may not be a technically accurate term. In two of those, there's a $500 dollar fine, no jail time. Heck, that's like two visits to a hooker. (I think? Anyone know if there's a Groupon for that?) Thanks for the response mirrororchid. You are correct, in my part of the world adultery is legal .What I should have said was this is the only person I can currently "afford" to touch. Divorce Lawyers and prostitutes are both rather costly....but $250 bucks? I could do that, that's the price of a bag of groceries.😀 In terms of why outsourcing is currently off the table, I, like a lot of folks I've been reading about on here have the stubborn affliction of still loving my wife in spite of all that has happened. She struggles with illness and crippling low self esteem. I am also a recovering nice guy which is a work in progress. And lastly, there is still a crack in the door - I know it is foolish optimism, and most of these deals never change, but she is seeing someone, working on herself a bit, and if you read my other posts, still willing to reset once and a while. For my part, I am focusing on myself and putting a hold on any major relationship altering decisions until it is clear that her work is going nowhere and all hope is gone. I know this is likely a recipe for years more of the same but that is where I'm at right now. |
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Jul 24, 2023 11:23:35 GMT -5
I skimmed through your old threads and did not see anywhere the reason why "outsourcing is off the table". Adultery is only illegal in 16 states, so "legal" may not be a technically accurate term. In two of those, there's a $500 dollar fine, no jail time. Heck, that's like two visits to a hooker. (I think? Anyone know if there's a Groupon for that?) Where do you live mirrororchid that hookers are only $250 a pop? Here in my piece of NC the average cost of a 1hr liaison is considerably higher. Who needs an hour??? I live in the DC area. I bet it costs more than yours. Then again....the population concentration and less devout mindset may override the cost of living adjustment. Are you talking double that? $500/hr? Sweet jeepers. $250 according to this site: vividmaps.com/price-of-sex-around-the-world/This is escorts where prices could be found. That makes me think bargains from less official sources can be had. $100 is entirely doable, if commenters are to be believed. The $250 seems to be partly due to exaggerated sense of self-worth by newcomers to the oldest profession. Maybe if you did start visiting escorts you'd figure out how to economize. Maybe repeat customers get discounts? Again, happy to say i don't know how it works. |
|
|
|
Post by petrushka on Aug 31, 2023 4:49:46 GMT -5
Counter-refusal is a non profit game, in my opinion. I mean: if I withdraw, my wife gets quite discombobulated - but is that going to kindle passion and desire in her? Not on your nelly. She has no desire and she's afraid of passion (I don't know what is so threatening about passion, but that's where she lives).
Meanwhile, I can touch, I can hug. I don't expect sex out of it - hell, I don't want sub par dead fish sex with someone who's "not interested any more". But, I can still enjoy a hug, I can still enjoy rubbing my face against hers, I can still enjoy putting my hand on her arse and snuggling up to a warm body in bed at night. I don't do it with expectations other than the instant gratification I get from doing just that. I enjoy the warmth, I enjoy the feeling of certain curves against the palm of my hand ... I just fricking enjoy the sensation and don't hang any expectations off of it. I do it for me. Funnily enough, while I am in this headspace she even seems to enjoy the contact. But, seriously, I'm not doing it to make her happy. Or because I expect whatever: I live in the moment.
Inasmuch as I still have desires to engage in sex with a female of the species, it would have to be someone else. Someone who likes to give and receive, enjoys passion and lust and playfulness.
Frankly, I hold no high hopes that someone like that will cross my path; I am nearly 70, I am blessed with my father's body shape (quite rotund rather than carrying rolls of fat) and probably not very attractive to a lot of people. And I have the 'married' thing around my neck, which will put some people off, because they'll be afraid I won't be able to commit or put in some time and effort.
Oh well.
So my motto is: just take out of the moment what is there to be had, and enjoy life to the max, rather than pining for what I don't have.
|
|
m76
Full Member
Posts: 421
Member is Online
|
Post by m76 on Aug 31, 2023 8:35:00 GMT -5
Counter-refusal is a non profit game, in my opinion. I mean: if I withdraw, my wife gets quite discombobulated - but is that going to kindle passion and desire in her? Not on your nelly. She has no desire and she's afraid of passion (I don't know what is so threatening about passion, but that's where she lives). Meanwhile, I can touch, I can hug. I don't expect sex out of it - hell, I don't want sub par dead fish sex with someone who's "not interested any more". But, I can still enjoy a hug, I can still enjoy rubbing my face against hers, I can still enjoy putting my hand on her arse and snuggling up to a warm body in bed at night. I don't do it with expectations other than the instant gratification I get from doing just that. I enjoy the warmth, I enjoy the feeling of certain curves against the palm of my hand ... I just fricking enjoy the sensation and don't hang any expectations off of it. I do it for me. Funnily enough, while I am in this headspace she even seems to enjoy the contact. But, seriously, I'm not doing it to make her happy. Or because I expect whatever: I live in the moment. Inasmuch as I still have desires to engage in sex with a female of the species, it would have to be someone else. Someone who likes to give and receive, enjoys passion and lust and playfulness. Frankly, I hold no high hopes that someone like that will cross my path; I am nearly 70, I am blessed with my father's body shape (quite rotund rather than carrying rolls of fat) and probably not very attractive to a lot of people. And I have the 'married' thing around my neck, which will put some people off, because they'll be afraid I won't be able to commit or put in some time and effort. Oh well. So my motto is: just take out of the moment what is there to be had, and enjoy life to the max, rather than pining for what I don't have. I'm in a situation where my wife refuses even this type of light touching. If I put my hand on her in bed she says she's hot and moves it away. After 15 years with no sex I tried the escort route, although fun for a moment it's not fulfilling and it left me more depressed after the fact. To anyone considering this, I'd recommend saving your money. |
|
|
|
Post by toughtiger on Sept 5, 2023 22:13:38 GMT -5
i recently tried a different approach ... tried touching him more .....rub his back offered to rub his feet ... gross but he always asked for that early on in marriage ....... he looks at me as if i somehow lost my mind.
My online friend tells me things like i make him feel wanted / attractive/ interesting so i tried doing that with my spouse was completely ignored.
we just had a huge fight again ..........
i told him "i have been going out of my way to make things YOU like not complaining about things."..... i am done trying to do it all for nothing in return.
"I tried touching your hand, arm, leg more as i know that is how you have always responded "
I told him "believe it or NOT we did not just meet i KNOW you" and he looked at me like a person who just figured out a magic trick he is very confused and simply ran away from house for awhile .......
i can deal with finding an outsource or something but i can not deal with him pretending this is NEW.
|
|
|
|
Post by h on Sept 7, 2023 14:04:18 GMT -5
I haven't initiated since 2017. At our last talk I was very clear and direct with her when I told her I wasn't going to make the first move anymore. If she wanted me then she knew where to find me, but I was done chasing after her when the answer was always no. I told her that I can't handle any more rejection and the only way I can avoid it is by not initiating. I told her that if having a sex life was something she even wanted, it was up to her to figure it out and make it happen.
At first, she enjoyed the lack of pressure and was happy that I quit asking. After a while though, she started gradually growing less happy when she started to miss my pursuit. Even though she never said yes, she still enjoyed feeling desirable even though I had been clear that her constant rejection made me feel undesirable.
|
|
|
|
Post by Same old, same old on Sept 7, 2023 15:08:13 GMT -5
I haven't initiated since 2017. At our last talk I was very clear and direct with her when I told her I wasn't going to make the first move anymore. If she wanted me then she knew where to find me, but I was done chasing after her when the answer was always no. I told her that I can't handle any more rejection and the only way I can avoid it is by not initiating. I told her that if having a sex life was something she even wanted, it was up to her to figure it out and make it happen. At first, she enjoyed the lack of pressure and was happy that I quit asking. After a while though, she started gradually growing less happy when she started to miss my pursuit. Even though she never said yes, she still enjoyed feeling desirable even though I had been clear that her constant rejection made me feel undesirable. Wow! Insult to injury! She sounds very narcissistic. My H doesn't seem to care that I've stopped pursuing sex with him. I just hate feeling no sense of anything from him except being a roommate. I feel your pain. |
|
|
|
Post by lonewalker on Sept 8, 2023 4:10:43 GMT -5
I haven't initiated since 2017. At our last talk I was very clear and direct with her when I told her I wasn't going to make the first move anymore. If she wanted me then she knew where to find me, but I was done chasing after her when the answer was always no. I told her that I can't handle any more rejection and the only way I can avoid it is by not initiating. I told her that if having a sex life was something she even wanted, it was up to her to figure it out and make it happen. At first, she enjoyed the lack of pressure and was happy that I quit asking. After a while though, she started gradually growing less happy when she started to miss my pursuit. Even though she never said yes, she still enjoyed feeling desirable even though I had been clear that her constant rejection made me feel undesirable. Wow! Insult to injury! She sounds very narcissistic. My H doesn't seem to care that I've stopped pursuing sex with him. I just hate feeling no sense of anything from him except being a roommate. I feel your pain. Sounds like my wife, ive gotten to the point i almost wish she would at least fake it, maybe for a while it wouldnt feel so empty. and i know thats not the best response im just clueless on what to do |
|
|
|
Post by h on Sept 8, 2023 17:50:06 GMT -5
Wow! Insult to injury! She sounds very narcissistic. My H doesn't seem to care that I've stopped pursuing sex with him. I just hate feeling no sense of anything from him except being a roommate. I feel your pain. Sounds like my wife, ive gotten to the point i almost wish she would at least fake it, maybe for a while it wouldnt feel so empty. and i know thats not the best response im just clueless on what to do No. You don't want her to just go through with it. You will feel even worse afterwards. Trust me on that. |
|
|
|
Post by toughtiger on Sept 8, 2023 19:58:11 GMT -5
i do not think some spouses see that it is connected....
they might enjoy the pursuit and feel desirable but they turn around and refuse which is like a slap in the face.
I think making a person feel wanted and desirable and appreciates is the strongest aphrodisiac there is. when someone says something complimentary and MEANS it it can be a powerful turn on
i said before i have an online friend that we have meeting to video chat etc ...
we both make each other feel sexy and wanted and appreciated and it turns us both on. he has tried talking to his wife like he talks to me she ignores him... i tried understanding from his point and make my spouse feel wanted etc ...
did not fix anything now me and friend just need to find some way to travel to meet.
|
|
|
|
Post by lonewalker on Sept 9, 2023 2:59:48 GMT -5
Sounds like my wife, ive gotten to the point i almost wish she would at least fake it, maybe for a while it wouldnt feel so empty. and i know thats not the best response im just clueless on what to do No. You don't want her to just go through with it. You will feel even worse afterwards. Trust me on that. You’re right, once the thrill, euphoria? Nor sure how to really put it I think at best I’d hate myself because I let it happen. If it isn’t real I shouldn’t want it |
|
|
|
Post by toughtiger on Sept 23, 2023 12:55:25 GMT -5
so out of curiosity .... see if anything worked at all i got naked and snuggled up to him rubbed his body and he flinched anytime i even got close to his equipment ........ nothing absolutely nothing ... he rubbed my shoulder.... like yeah that is all i need ........lmao
i was curious if he would step up and try to help a gal out but NOPE .... selfish.
He was telling me all morning how great it was .... it is all i can do not to tell him how worthless the whole situation is.
|
|
|
|
Post by h on Sept 24, 2023 6:09:22 GMT -5
so out of curiosity .... see if anything worked at all i got naked and snuggled up to him rubbed his body and he flinched anytime i even got close to his equipment ........ nothing absolutely nothing ... he rubbed my shoulder.... like yeah that is all i need ........lmao i was curious if he would step up and try to help a gal out but NOPE .... selfish. He was telling me all morning how great it was .... it is all i can do not to tell him how worthless the whole situation is. Tell him. Tell him how frustrating the whole encounter was for you. Tell him how vulnerable you were in that moment wanting him to touch you intimately and all you got was a shoulder rub. Tell him how hurt you felt when he flinched at your touch. Maybe he has no idea and assumes that you got the same thing out of the encounter that he did. |
|
|
|
Post by toughtiger on Sept 24, 2023 10:13:43 GMT -5
He was telling me all morning how great it was .... it is all i can do not to tell him how worthless the whole situation is. Tell him. Tell him how frustrating the whole encounter was for you. Tell him how vulnerable you were in that moment wanting him to touch you intimately and all you got was a shoulder rub. Tell him how hurt you felt when he flinched at your touch. Maybe he has no idea and assumes that you got the same thing out of the encounter that he did. I missed my chance i guess ... i was so angry i was afraid of what i might say..... i tend to say things very bluntly and to the point and i thought being angry it would only make things worse. I plan on NEVER letting it happen again the maybe telling him if he asks to tries why bother i can get my shoulder rubbed anywhere. see still PO he is IMO not as naive and plain stupid as he acts about this. last time i addressed a similar situation he literally was saying he thought i would get rubbing a shoulder as the sign .... told him no one in the world would think that had many other places he could touch that would have been a clue ...... it must have looked and felt like a condolence move for someone who had an accident or stuck out at softball. |
|
