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Post by blueberry on Jun 10, 2023 20:09:54 GMT -5
Wondering how everyone chooses to handle Initiating?
After being refused countless times my confidence is rock bottom. For me, the pain of rejection hurts sooo much now that I am very reluctant to initiate. I recognise though that this now contributes to the sexless marriage.
How do people battle this and what have people found can help?
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muzack
Junior Member
Posts: 79 
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Post by muzack on Jun 10, 2023 23:30:43 GMT -5
I've just straight up told her I'm not initiating. It's straightforward math.
Intitate 200 times.
Feel like crap after getting rejected 199 times.
For the one positive response, it is still most likely to be starfish sex or worse "What's wrong? Aren't you done." sex.
Average it all together and there is more negative than positive created by me initiating.
A just tell her the door is open, but she needs to tell me if she's in the mood.
She understands my reasoning, but is unhappy because it is a reminder to her that the intimate side of our relationship is messed up and knowing my reasoning makes it harder for her to believe an illusion.
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Post by blunder8 on Jun 14, 2023 9:27:53 GMT -5
If your batting average is that low, and each strikeout makes you feel worse, then don't initiate.
Refusers enjoy that power they have over us to ask, to beg, to seem needy. Don't give her any satisfaction. Change clothes in another room so there is no temptation to look or grab. Make her come to you so that the conversation is on your terms, not out of your weakness.
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 14, 2023 14:11:52 GMT -5
Just be aware that if you move out of the bedroom, stop initiating, stop cuddles, etc. your spouse may react like my ex -- like he didn't notice any change. I suspect that when I did those things, I gave my ex what he wanted.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jun 15, 2023 6:50:28 GMT -5
It wasn't until the very end that I quit trying to initiate. I am a slow learner at times. My X moved out of the bedroom to avoid my advances and efforts to get her pants off. It was about that time I really started looking for answeres as to what was going on. I fortunately found the old EP site where SM was a topic. It helped me immensely.
I have met a new woman and I hope to be initiating again very soon.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 15, 2023 7:14:57 GMT -5
Just be aware that if you move out of the bedroom, stop initiating, stop cuddles, etc. your spouse may react like my ex -- like he didn't notice any change. I suspect that when I did those things, I gave my ex what he wanted. Indifference to your absence in the bedroom strikes me as almost license to outsource. Such indifference could be offensive but highly useful information. For newbies here at ILIASM, we've heard other stories about how such a move initiates hysteria bonding in refusers
blueberry I stopped initiating, had "The Talk" with Mrs. Mirror Orchid three months before our 20th wedding anniversary. Then, three months later, started making plans to initiate sex. Just not with her. My initiating dating with other women triggered my wife's 3+ year reset. If you decide you must ultimately take action, as always, Obey the Baza. |
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Post by aquacat on Jun 15, 2023 9:15:16 GMT -5
I keep telling myself to stop initiating as it hurts to get rejected, yet I still try.
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Post by blunder8 on Jun 15, 2023 10:36:20 GMT -5
I keep telling myself to stop initiating as it hurts to get rejected, yet I still try. This reminds me of Charlie Brown kicking the football held by Lucy and her pulling it every time. Except refusers usually are not promising sex if only we initiate. We go into it knowing our odds are extremely slim and the risk/reward ratio is heavily slanted to risk (hurt, disappointment, frustration). Refusers could at least give us a green/yellow/red light cue to let us know our odds in advance. |
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jun 15, 2023 11:04:36 GMT -5
When we initiate we hold on to hope. While hope is not a bad thing, it can lead to bad decisions, and consequences.
I gained acceptance and peace when I stopped initiating. She never complained or said a word. She is either too embarassed or just doesnt give a crap. Either way, doesn't matter to me. I have my peace.
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Post by poetanders1n on Jul 19, 2023 6:13:27 GMT -5
After too many refusals and a few instances where it was painfully obvious she wasn’t into it, I told her I wasn’t initiating any more. It just opens me up to disappointment, doubt, hurt, And too many other negative feelings to say. I’d rather take a cold shower or a long shower than open myself up to another blow to my soul
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carpy
New Member
Posts: 19
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Post by carpy on Jul 20, 2023 16:16:01 GMT -5
I have a lot of difficulty with this one. I have tried following advice of members on here and tried backing away - treating her like the roommates we are. My experience with this is it is feels like just another piece of hard work I have to do while she does nothing or remains oblivious. It takes a lot of effort to constantly resist the urge to touch her, holding back from trying and initiate some sort of reciprocal affection. Aside from the occasional comment that I haven't been touching her much lately there is no real change in her behavior anyway. Always thinking about trying not to be affectionate just feels like more suppression of my natural sexual self. I already get enough of that from her. As I work on improving myself, I find I have more lust for life, more desire to say YES to life and less patience for negative games and passive aggression that have been my go-to for years. The result? Like an idiot I keep rubbing her back, rubbing her feet, she always stops the rubbing if it gets anywhere near anything erogenous. The thing is, I have long since excepted that rejection is inevitable, it's just that since circumstances have me choosing to stay, and outsourcing is off the table, this is the only human I am legally permitted to touch right now and I am not ready to give up the pleasure of touching someone just to take a stand that will likely go un noticed anyway.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 20, 2023 17:31:59 GMT -5
carpy: "I have a lot of difficulty with this one. I have tried following advice of members on here and tried backing away - treating her like the roommates we are. My experience with this is it is feels like just another piece of hard work I have to do while she does nothing or remains oblivious. "
The reason to do this is not to get your refuser to change or notice but to get yourself to let go of false hope that you'll eventually have a marriage that includes mutually fulfilling sex. Letting go of that hope will keep you from being disappointed or trying to initiate and getting rejected again. Backing away and living like the roommate that in truth you really are is accepting the truth of the situation you're in.
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Post by baza on Jul 20, 2023 19:29:44 GMT -5
As Sister northstarmom says, taking a position of counter refusing is NOT to - "get your refuser to change or notice" Rather, it is to put you back in control of your end of the situation. To make the choice that if there is to be no sex in your situation that it is YOUR choice that it be so. It is a subtle difference in thinking but if you make that choice, you move from 'victim' in the situation to 'owner' of the situation. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jul 21, 2023 6:08:29 GMT -5
... The thing is, I have long since accepted that rejection is inevitable, it's just that since circumstances have me choosing to stay, and outsourcing is off the table, this is the only human I am legally permitted to touch right now and I am not ready to give up the pleasure of touching someone just to take a stand that will likely go un noticed anyway. I skimmed through your old threads and did not see anywhere the reason why "outsourcing is off the table". Adultery is only illegal in 16 states, so "legal" may not be a technically accurate term. In two of those, there's a $500 dollar fine, no jail time. Heck, that's like two visits to a hooker. (I think? Anyone know if there's a Groupon for that?) |
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Post by worksforme2 on Jul 21, 2023 6:39:47 GMT -5
... The thing is, I have long since accepted that rejection is inevitable, it's just that since circumstances have me choosing to stay, and outsourcing is off the table, this is the only human I am legally permitted to touch right now and I am not ready to give up the pleasure of touching someone just to take a stand that will likely go un noticed anyway. I skimmed through your old threads and did not see anywhere the reason why "outsourcing is off the table". Adultery is only illegal in 16 states, so "legal" may not be a technically accurate term. In two of those, there's a $500 dollar fine, no jail time. Heck, that's like two visits to a hooker. (I think? Anyone know if there's a Groupon for that?) Where do you live mirrororchid that hookers are only $250 a pop? Here in my piece of NC the average cost of a 1hr liason is considerably higher. |
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