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Post by aquacat on May 16, 2023 8:05:02 GMT -5
Been married for a little over 20 years and am stuck in a pretty much sexless marriage. Sure she will have sex but it’s starfish and very little foreplay just to try to get her ready. No foreplay towards me. She despises oral as she says it disgusts her to have my penis near her face or anywhere above her hips. If I do oral on her she begrudgingly lets me but refuses to kiss me afterwards. We have two kids with the youngest about 6 years out from graduating HS. Our finances are tied so together that it would be a pain to separate them and I make more money than she does so a divorce would be very expensive for me. We’ve tried working on this but I do believe she’s asexual. She thinks she has responsive desire but she just doesn’t get into it like I would think she would. She does orgasm most of the time.
We’ve tried counceiling through our church and even they say a healthy sex drive is vital for a marriage and to not be selfish. I just don’t know what to do. I don’t want to divorce and be a failure but I also don’t want to be in a pretty much celibate marriage either. I really miss things like being desired and oral sex for me, etc.
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Post by blunder8 on May 16, 2023 9:18:31 GMT -5
Welcome. Read and soak up the collective knowledge in this forum. Some will apply to your situation; some won't. You'll be able to discern what advice resonates and fits your situation.
Meanwhile work on yourself. Give yourself a pep talk everyday. Being denied what's rightfully yours can really drag you down, as I'm sure you're aware. Stay positive and realize SHE has to figure it out....or be willing to risk the marriage over it.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on May 16, 2023 9:52:51 GMT -5
Hello and welcome to our little corner of the internet! Thanks for sharing your story. Sounds like you have done a lot of the heavy lifting. It might help to poke around and read some of the posts in the "Choosing to Stay" section. This particular comment in your post struck me as curious. If divorce were to bring you some happiness that you otherwise might not have, how is that failure? "I don’t want to divorce and be a failure" Been married for a little over 20 years and am stuck in a pretty much sexless marriage. Sure she will have sex but it’s starfish and very little foreplay just to try to get her ready. No foreplay towards me. She despises oral as she says it disgusts her to have my penis near her face or anywhere above her hips. If I do oral on her she begrudgingly lets me but refuses to kiss me afterwards. We have two kids with the youngest about 6 years out from graduating HS. Our finances are tied so together that it would be a pain to separate them and I make more money than she does so a divorce would be very expensive for me. We’ve tried working on this but I do believe she’s asexual. She thinks she has responsive desire but she just doesn’t get into it like I would think she would. She does orgasm most of the time. We’ve tried counceiling through our church and even they say a healthy sex drive is vital for a marriage and to not be selfish. I just don’t know what to do. I don’t want to divorce and be a failure but I also don’t want to be in a pretty much celibate marriage either. I really miss things like being desired and oral sex for me, etc. |
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Post by aquacat on May 16, 2023 22:43:36 GMT -5
Because my parents divorced and I hope to not continue that trend. I want my kids to see a happy couple. On the outside we are. On the inside the sex life for me is miserable. Hello and welcome to our little corner of the internet! Thanks for sharing your story. Sounds like you have done a lot of the heavy lifting. It might help to poke around and read some of the posts in the "Choosing to Stay" section. This particular comment in your post struck me as curious. If divorce were to bring you some happiness that you otherwise might not have, how is that failure? "I don’t want to divorce and be a failure" Been married for a little over 20 years and am stuck in a pretty much sexless marriage. Sure she will have sex but it’s starfish and very little foreplay just to try to get her ready. No foreplay towards me. She despises oral as she says it disgusts her to have my penis near her face or anywhere above her hips. If I do oral on her she begrudgingly lets me but refuses to kiss me afterwards. We have two kids with the youngest about 6 years out from graduating HS. Our finances are tied so together that it would be a pain to separate them and I make more money than she does so a divorce would be very expensive for me. We’ve tried working on this but I do believe she’s asexual. She thinks she has responsive desire but she just doesn’t get into it like I would think she would. She does orgasm most of the time. We’ve tried counceiling through our church and even they say a healthy sex drive is vital for a marriage and to not be selfish. I just don’t know what to do. I don’t want to divorce and be a failure but I also don’t want to be in a pretty much celibate marriage either. I really miss things like being desired and oral sex for me, etc. |
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Post by baza on May 17, 2023 18:36:36 GMT -5
Brother aquacat . Have you consulted a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would - theoreticaly - shake out for you ? Do you have a support network (and/or a personal counsellor) that could help you through a - theoretical - divorce scenario ? Do you have some sort of an idea how you would - theoretically - shepherd any minor chidren through such a process ? In other words, do you have a - theoretical - do-able exit strategy in your pocket as a viable alternative to your present predicament ? All marriages (be they 'made in heaven' or 'ILIASM shitholes') end. Death or divorce see to that, so it is prudent for any married person to have a plan for a scenario where they are no longer married. Having such a plan commits you to precisely nothing, it is just you information gathering, and from that information you can base your choices on facts. |
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Post by ironhamster on May 17, 2023 20:36:39 GMT -5
^^^^^ Get information. It's important to know where you stand, and how to tilt the outcome in your favor if it all goes south in the future.
My marriage was a failure early on. Odds are, the kids will see something just isn't right, just like mine did. I hope you are able to model the relationship well and your wife plays along.
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Post by aquacat on May 18, 2023 22:02:27 GMT -5
What was the moment you all decided it was time?
I’ve read so many self help books: No More Mr Nice Guy, Dead Bedroom Fix, etc and nothing has changed. I’ve been going to the gym and getting into better shape as well as made sone positive attitude adjustments. Nothing has changed after promise after promise of things will get better and we will have more sex.
Our kids see a happy couple because I refuse to allow them to see how unhappy I am since it’s just that part of the marriage that’s broken. We are great roommates, just not lovers.
I miss oral the most I think. I can’t even remember what it feels like now.
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Post by ironhamster on May 18, 2023 23:48:25 GMT -5
"What was the moment [you] decided it was time?"
It was essentially the moment I lost hope. That was a good thing. Hoping she was going to change wasn't rational. Hoping I was going to have a normal loving relationship with her wasn't rational. From there, I grieved the death of my marriage which had happened twenty-three years previously. Divorce doesn't kill a marriage any more than a death certificate ends a life. Divorce simply documents that the death of the relationship has already happened, along with the humiliating financial consequences. That being said, I would rather have lived in a homeless camp than remained married at that point, and no amount of money would convince me to try to resurrect a dead relationship.
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Post by mirrororchid on May 22, 2023 18:19:25 GMT -5
What was the moment you all decided it was time? I’ve read so many self help books: No More Mr. Nice Guy, Dead Bedroom Fix, etc. and nothing has changed. I’ve been going to the gym and getting into better shape as well as made some positive attitude adjustments. Nothing has changed after promise after promise of things will get better and we will have more sex. Our kids see a happy couple because I refuse to allow them to see how unhappy I am since it’s just that part of the marriage that’s broken. We are great roommates, just not lovers. I miss oral the most I think. I can’t even remember what it feels like now. I believe it's chapter 7 of dead bedroom fix where DSO says, in short, "Sometimes you do everything right, and it doesn't work." For me, it was two weeks before Valentines' Day, three months before my 20th anniversary. I told my wife I wanted to keep our 20th anniversary small because I wasn't going to make a big to do over our marriage. We weren't in great shape. We couldn't go on the way we were. I remember the words, "This will not stand." 20th anniversary came and went. By mid-summer, nothing had changed. I got on dating sites to see if I had any shot at finding someone else. Being rejected by your wife 360 days a year or more, four years straight gives some guys some self-doubt. Six messages, two dates, one overt invitation. I was found out before I'd gotten anywhere (which had been the intent anyway). I made no apologies nor denials. The story is bigger than this, but I'm leaving some out. My wife asked if I was going to date again some time later after having changed very little, and I said Yes. In two months when our daughter goes back to school and she won't see me gone for two or three hours and want an explanation. Again, my words: "I will be intimate with someone next year. I hope it's with you. But it won't be with nobody." Mrs. MirrorOrchid reset and we've not been sexless for three and a half years so far. Blunder8 had a similar approach and also saw his wife reset. Two ILIASM ladies also planned to "outsource" intimacy. One had her husband reset. The other took a lover and her husband stayed. Four open marriage announcements (not "ask"s, not threats, announcements.), four people, still married, all experiencing complete adult lives. Four is a very small sample size, but 100% satisfaction rate is worth making note of. If your wife makes your celibacy the cost of staying married that's on her. She's the one that busts up the marriage, not you. That said, Baza's advice to be aware of the consequences of divorce is a very good idea. Some refusers are looking for any excuse. Many expect you to have a secret affair. Telling them in advance ruins their story of your being a deceitful monster and presents a new one: "I wanted to be divorced more than I wanted to have sex twice a month. with my spouse." That isn't the look they're going for. , |
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Post by aquacat on Jun 6, 2023 9:39:41 GMT -5
We are fighting about sex yet again. She flat out told me if I want a BJ I would need to divorce her and find some other woman who would be willing to do that and also who would be willing to have sex as much as I have desired (a few days a week). She finds oral (both ways) absolutely disgusting for some reason. Unfortunately that's the one thing I still desire that I can't get out of my head.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 7, 2023 6:12:32 GMT -5
We are fighting about sex yet again. She flat out told me if I want a BJ I would need to divorce her and find some other woman who would be willing to do that and also who would be willing to have sex as much as I have desired (a few days a week). She finds oral (both ways) absolutely disgusting for some reason. Unfortunately that's the one thing I still desire that I can't get out of my head. She climaxes each time, you say. From PIV? Manually? Oral? (She finds it disturbing, but does her body approve?) She doesn't want to kiss you afterwards? Same with Mrs. MirrorOrchid, though she does sometimes anyway, a bit overcome by her appreciation for the result. (Granted, it's been a very long time.) Do you offer oral hoping for reciprocation? Or does she react well and that is pleasant in itself? Could you suggest oral after the starfish encounter, after which you'll caress her stomach and thighs, then slip off to the shower so she need not smell herself? Religious taboo may be making her overthink kissing you after that. Or it's a physical thing. Maybe remove the downside from something she might otherwise appreciate? So, is she implying nobody would want twice a week with you? Is that a slam against sex itself? Or you? Ordinary sex lives are composed of sex every 3-10 days. Your desires are on teh high side, but you said you were sexless, so she may be wildly unrealistic for what she should expect you to accept. Is the oral sex thing a deal breaker for you? Or would twice a month missionary where she's actually present and wants you to enjoy the companionship with her be enough? How much would you pay to have a marriage like that? |
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Post by aquacat on Jun 7, 2023 8:21:17 GMT -5
We are fighting about sex yet again. She flat out told me if I want a BJ I would need to divorce her and find some other woman who would be willing to do that and also who would be willing to have sex as much as I have desired (a few days a week). She finds oral (both ways) absolutely disgusting for some reason. Unfortunately that's the one thing I still desire that I can't get out of my head. She climaxes each time, you say. From PIV? Manually? Oral? (She finds it disturbing, but does her body approve?) She doesn't want to kiss you afterwards? Same with Mrs. MirrorOrchid, though she does sometimes anyway, a bit overcome by her appreciation for the result. (Granted, it's been a very long time.) Do you offer oral hoping for reciprocation? Or does she react well and that is pleasant in itself? Could you suggest oral after the starfish encounter, after which you'll caress her stomach and thighs, then slip off to the shower so she need not smell herself? Religious taboo may be making her overthink kissing you after that. Or it's a physical thing. Maybe remove the downside from something she might otherwise appreciate? So, is she implying nobody would want twice a week with you? Is that a slam against sex itself? Or you? Ordinary sex lives are composed of sex every 3-10 days. Your desires are on teh high side, but you said you were sexless, so she may be wildly unrealistic for what she should expect you to accept. Is the oral sex thing a deal breaker for you? Or would twice a month missionary where she's actually present and wants you to enjoy the companionship with her be enough? How much would you pay to have a marriage like that? I try to ensure she does orgasm every time because I want her to feel good as well, and hopefully associate it with sex so that it reinforces that it's a good thing. It's 99% PIV because she says it's more intense than when I've done oral on her to orgasm. I've gotten her to orgasm by rubbing on her clitoris because she does not like my fingers anywhere inside. I offer oral because I actually really enjoy it and it gives me pleasure with doing that. I don't ever ask or expect her to reciprocate because I know she doesn't like it on me. I've suggested oral after but she would rather go straight to the bathroom right after. She's reluctantly kissed me after oral but I can see it in her face that it disgusts her, so I have to choose between wanting to kiss her or do oral, go clean up right after, and continue, which really kills the mood. She never has correlated the frequency of sex and it being with me. We are both religious and she knows that sex is something that is good and encouraged in a marriage. I'm trying not to have oral be a deal breaker for me, but the overall attitude about sex just adds to it. Unfortunately the cost of a divorce would be expensive for me because we have kids and because we've been married for so long and I make more than she does. |
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Post by deadzone75 on Jun 7, 2023 10:52:56 GMT -5
We are fighting about sex yet again. She flat out told me if I want a BJ I would need to divorce her and find some other woman who would be willing to do that and also who would be willing to have sex as much as I have desired (a few days a week). She finds oral (both ways) absolutely disgusting for some reason. Unfortunately that's the one thing I still desire that I can't get out of my head. She has given you her answer, now it's just up to you to decide what you want to live out your days with...or without. Was the sex ever good, or has it always been starfish, hating BJs, etc? At the end of my SM, I had fantasies I just couldn't get out of my head, but nothing that would have been considered a deal-breaker by themselves. I mean, a little of my imagination can go a long way. But no BJs? That would have been a deal-breaker for me. Strangely, my W always seemed to enjoy BJs more than PIV. |
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Post by aquacat on Jun 7, 2023 22:25:50 GMT -5
We had intercourse tonight and I almost am at tears now because she was just not into it. I have refused to initiate anymore because I get tired of rejection, so her way of initiating is her saying “are we doing it or not?”
Why oh why can’t I just lose all sexual desire??
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 8, 2023 5:04:08 GMT -5
She climaxes each time, you say. From PIV? Manually? Oral? (She finds it disturbing, but does her body approve?) She doesn't want to kiss you afterwards? Same with Mrs. MirrorOrchid, though she does sometimes anyway, a bit overcome by her appreciation for the result. (Granted, it's been a very long time.) Do you offer oral hoping for reciprocation? Or does she react well and that is pleasant in itself? Could you suggest oral after the starfish encounter, after which you'll caress her stomach and thighs, then slip off to the shower so she need not smell herself? Religious taboo may be making her overthink kissing you after that. Or it's a physical thing. Maybe remove the downside from something she might otherwise appreciate? So, is she implying nobody would want twice a week with you? Is that a slam against sex itself? Or you? Ordinary sex lives are composed of sex every 3-10 days. Your desires are on teh high side, but you said you were sexless, so she may be wildly unrealistic for what she should expect you to accept. Is the oral sex thing a deal breaker for you? Or would twice a month missionary where she's actually present and wants you to enjoy the companionship with her be enough? How much would you pay to have a marriage like that? I try to ensure she does orgasm every time because I want her to feel good as well, and hopefully associate it with sex so that it reinforces that it's a good thing. It's 99% PIV because she says it's more intense than when I've done oral on her to orgasm. I've gotten her to orgasm by rubbing on her clitoris because she does not like my fingers anywhere inside. I offer oral because I actually really enjoy it and it gives me pleasure with doing that. I don't ever ask or expect her to reciprocate because I know she doesn't like it on me. I've suggested oral after but she would rather go straight to the bathroom right after. She's reluctantly kissed me after oral but I can see it in her face that it disgusts her, so I have to choose between wanting to kiss her or do oral, go clean up right after, and continue, which really kills the mood. She never has correlated the frequency of sex and it being with me. We are both religious and she knows that sex is something that is good and encouraged in a marriage. I'm trying not to have oral be a deal breaker for me, but the overall attitude about sex just adds to it. Unfortunately the cost of a divorce would be expensive for me because we have kids and because we've been married for so long and I make more than she does. Straight to the bathroom? Is that every time? She won't be interested, but maybe you will be: www.sparkchicagotherapy.com/blog/2019/5/20/peeing-immediately-after-sex-unlearning-this-sexual-health-myth-will-change-your-lifeIt would fit with the avoidance of finger penetration. Religious upbringing may be forming obsessive thoughts in her head. That's difficult to displace. The oral, clean up, then PIV sequence kills the mood. So it's no better after she's been gratified? Identical starfish? Would she consider taking turns. Oral on her, PIV that night or next day? Friday morning oral lets you start getting ready for work, which you were going to do anyway. Sex for you later, perhaps with a sense of gratitude for your generosity. You say she climaxes every time from PIV, this would be a twofer. Assuming climaxes are good. Some women find them exhausting and sometimes less is more. If divorce were cheap, would you be doing it? Is it expensive because you have savings that'll get halved? Or expensive because you make so little you'll struggle to even survive? Shout out to heelots on the latter. Does child support vanish after 18 in your state? 6 years of poverty may be okay. It's the alimony that's the gift that keeps on giving. If considering divorce, bear in mind the interim step of open marriage. (after consulting a lawyer to brace for impact!) You say she knows how important sex is to marriage. Does she? There are numerous accounts of chicken-shit refusers who want their refused spouse to divorce them or have an affair so they are not the "bad guy". Scheduling the opening of a marriage if certain minimum standards aren't met destroys that self-image. If they dislike the open marriage they can prevent it. If they choose to divorce, they might say you had an affair, but risk the truth getting out, that the "affair" was disclosed in advance, negotiable, and happened specifically because sex was less than ten times a year and always distant, tolerant starfish sex. (you can decide whether to explain that she hadn't given a BJ in 2/5/10 years) That isn't the look they're going for. You want a little investment in making you happy. You can't make someone love you, but you can ask them to figure out why they don't, and fix it. If they don't want to? Okay. Good to know. You say you've been to church counseling. What gets discussed? Are your concerns addressed? Or sidetracked? What are her concerns? Was counseling your idea? Would an outside counselor be an option? Maybe your church counselor is sympathetic to the religious cliché of sex being a necessary evil; a dirty, but unavoidable duty. That's hardly going to be the kind of facilitator who'll make rapid progress towards a good compromise of twice a week. Who is the counselor? How often have you been and what kind of progress got made? Marriage counseling has had a dubious track record here at ILIASM. You'll see praise for the approach of Dr. Psych Mom, who denies marriage counseling fixes dead bedrooms unless the counseling includes addressing teh sex and pushing towards a goal of more physical engagement. Emotional closeness does not produce physical closeness automatically and 50% of an answer is still an "F". |
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